Puzzle continuity contradictions and theory - Quest Pt 1 -

[qingdom]

There are three instances to the puzzles that are itching my head where I 'sense' contradictions (or inconclusiveness) but cannot fully explain what, how, or why so I'll do my best.

Spoiler:

Daniel matched up the planets to form a 'perfect' tetrahedron.

How can this be with the existance of interstellar drift as explained in an episode WAYYYYYYYY back in season 1?

Surely Carter's or the SGC's address database algorithms calculated and recalculated addresses across the years, however, space is continuingly to expand (and in some areas, shrink).

So what was once 'perfect' should not be so 'perfect' anymore.

Spoiler:

Supposedly the new address where the anti-ori weapon is kept is 'safeguarded' from Goa'uld territory. So how does the 'village leader' know about 'Jaffa' rather then say '[Baal's] soldiers'? Which brings us to...

Spoiler:

Where were the Jaffa that supposedly escorted Baal as said by the 'village leader'? If they were trapped in the distortion field, we would've seen their bodies. Portable device sensors ceased to function after some distance with Carter's PDA, yet no visible floating rocks or anything such that the team did. Baal said the Jaffa were to run to get support, however, the proximity of the trap was quite large. Even if Baal went ahead or stayed behind the Jaffa from a distance, at least one of them should've been trapped with Baal when the box was examined.

Spoiler:

Also, let's say 10,000 years passed by since the initial villagers went on a quest for the Sangraal. The people where we saw trapped in the time dialation area were moving slower than our actual timezone. So... If Arthur and the knights of the round table threw 'rocks' or 'arrows' or blew sand, why do we not see them around the open areas?

Spoiler:

Now onto Morgan LeFay's riddles. When Daniel went to Atlantis, even he said words, concepts, and language from old ancient to modern ancient would be quite different in terms of pronounciation and such. Castiana(sp.) and Zahal(sp.) was translated to Taos Vaclarush and Valos Core. From this example, it's quite clear there that the pronounciations are totally different. So when Daniel and Adria blurted out answers in ancient, the portals opened. How can this be? The only viable conclusions I can think of are: 1) An ancient or the 'underground ancients' is/are finally stepping forward and opening the doors for Daniel and team and helping them from the sidelines and/or 2) Morgan Lafey and/or Oma are not dead.

End of questions

Now here I am thinking and theorizing ... Merlin might not have been developing a weapon whatsoever. Merlin might have contributed to the origination/creation of the Ori. Consider the title of the final episode of season 10 'Family Ties'. The Ori may have been an abandoned offspring of the Ancients and are returning for retribution (similarly to how we now see how the Wraith and Asurans are coming back for revenge on their creators).

Merlin was considered an outcast for his research. Morgan LaFey (over time) began to question the codes and conduct of the Ascended. Even Morgan LaFey herself said there was a small group of ascended resistance, but not enough. I suppose even as an Ascended being, there's no escaping politics.

And so, everything seems to be coming back in a circle. What began with the Ancients will end with the Ancients, as what the Ancients began will also end with the Ancients.

Ancients created problems they couldn't control (i.e. wraith infestation, mutation, war), ignored the consequences (i.e. Project Arcturus, Window of Opportunity), tried to shove the problems under the carpet (i.e. annihilating the Pegasus replicator colony), and now many of the problems they chose to ignore are coming back to haunt them.

In conclusion, I'm predicting that Merlins' weapon to fight the ascended Ancients are indeed the Ori.

[Mitchell82]

There are three instances to the puzzles that are itching my head where I 'sense' contradictions (or inconclusiveness) but cannot fully explain what, how, or why so I'll do my best.

Spoiler:

Daniel matched up the planets to form a 'perfect' tetrahedron.

How can this be with the existance of interstellar drift as explained in an episode WAYYYYYYYY back in season 1?

Surely Carter's or the SGC's address database algorithms calculated and recalculated addresses across the years, however, space is continuingly to expand (and in some areas, shrink).

So what was once 'perfect' should not be so 'perfect' anymore.

Spoiler:

Supposedly the new address where the anti-ori weapon is kept is 'safeguarded' from Goa'uld territory. So how does the 'village leader' know about 'Jaffa' rather then say '[Baal's] soldiers'? Which brings us to...

Spoiler:

Where were the Jaffa that supposedly escorted Baal as said by the 'village leader'? If they were trapped in the distortion field, we would've seen their bodies. Portable device sensors ceased to function after some distance with Carter's PDA, yet no visible floating rocks or anything such that the team did. Baal said the Jaffa were to run to get support, however, the proximity of the trap was quite large. Even if Baal went ahead or stayed behind the Jaffa from a distance, at least one of them should've been trapped with Baal when the box was examined.

Spoiler:

Also, let's say 10,000 years passed by since the initial villagers went on a quest for the Sangraal. The people where we saw trapped in the time dialation area were moving slower than our actual timezone. So... If Arthur and the knights of the round table threw 'rocks' or 'arrows' or blew sand, why do we not see them around the open areas?

Spoiler:

Now onto Morgan LeFay's riddles. When Daniel went to Atlantis, even he said words, concepts, and language from old ancient to modern ancient would be quite different in terms of pronounciation and such. Castiana(sp.) and Zahal(sp.) was translated to Taos Vaclarush and Valos Core. From this example, it's quite clear there that the pronounciations are totally different. So when Daniel and Adria blurted out answers in ancient, the portals opened. How can this be? The only viable conclusions I can think of are: 1) An ancient or the 'underground ancients' is/are finally stepping forward and opening the doors for Daniel and team and helping them from the sidelines and/or 2) Morgan Lafey and/or Oma are not dead.

End of questions

Now here I am thinking and theorizing ... Merlin might not have been developing a weapon whatsoever. Merlin might have contributed to the origination/creation of the Ori. Consider the title of the final episode of season 10 'Family Ties'. The Ori may have been an abandoned offspring of the Ancients and are returning for retribution (similarly to how we now see how the Wraith and Asurans are coming back for revenge on their creators).

Merlin was considered an outcast for his research. Morgan LaFey (over time) began to question the codes and conduct of the Ascended. Even Morgan LaFey herself said there was a small group of ascended resistance, but not enough. I suppose even as an Ascended being, there's no escaping politics.

And so, everything seems to be coming back in a circle. What began with the Ancients will end with the Ancients, as what the Ancients began will also end with the Ancients.

Ancients created problems they couldn't control (i.e. wraith infestation, mutation, war), ignored the consequences (i.e. Project Arcturus, Window of Opportunity), tried to shove the problems under the carpet (i.e. annihilating the Pegasus replicator colony), and now many of the problems they chose to ignore are coming back to haunt them.

In conclusion, I'm predicting that Merlins' weapon to fight the ascended Ancients are indeed the Ori.

Well the show has established that the Ori were Alterans who disagreed with each other and the Ori became outcasts. Merlin didn't create the Ori so that dosent make sense as he would have no reason to destroy the Ancients. I agree with the problems you presented anf that they just swept them under the carpet except for the Asurans as they imprisoned them offworld and thought that they had succesfully prevented them from harming them. We screwed that up. I agree with the whole full circle thing as the Ancients might have no choice but to step in. You have to remember those planets were altered to prevent acess by ship so it's also possible with the only access being by stargate (and the Ancients being the only ones with the adreess) it could have prevented the galactic shift from taking place. Just b/c the goa'uld were prevented from flying a ship their they might still know of the Jaffa. It's possible the jaffa got lost or killed somewhere else by Adria, and for the Arthurian soldiers they may not have gotten that far or new a way past it. The answers actually were correct as it was written in Ancient and the answers needed to be spoken in Ancient.

[PG15]

Daniel matched up the planets to form a 'perfect' tetrahedron.

How can this be with the existance of interstellar drift as explained in an episode WAYYYYYYYY back in season 1?

If we were speculating, we can say that Merlin placed some sort of subspace link between the stars so they move together. Or maybe that's just how they move, perhaps that's why Merlin chose these stars to be "clues" to the weapon.

And I doubt that's it's as perfect as Danny (who's not a mathematician) says it is. A few star-lengths movement relative to the other stars wouldn't make much of a difference compared to the actual distance between the stars.

Surely Carter's or the SGC's address database algorithms calculated and recalculated addresses across the years, however, space is continuingly to expand (and in some areas, shrink).

That only works for between galaxies (the distance between galaxies are increasing). Galaxies themselves tend to keep their size.

Supposedly the new address where the anti-ori weapon is kept is 'safeguarded' from Goa'uld territory. So how does the 'village leader' know about 'Jaffa' rather then say '[Baal's] soldiers'? Which brings us to...

I don't remember, did they actually say Jaffa?

If so, then maybe Ba'al said that they were his Jaffa or something.

Where were the Jaffa that supposedly escorted Baal as said by the 'village leader'? If they were trapped in the distortion field, we would've seen their bodies. Portable device sensors ceased to function after some distance with Carter's PDA, yet no visible floating rocks or anything such that the team did. Baal said the Jaffa were to run to get support, however, the proximity of the trap was quite large. Even if Baal went ahead or stayed behind the Jaffa from a distance, at least one of them should've been trapped with Baal when the box was examined.

The Jaffa could be anywhere; it's not necessary that they followed the same route our team did. For all we know they went around the "temporal fence" trying to find a way in and got stuck elsewhere.

Also, let's say 10,000 years passed by since the initial villagers went on a quest for the Sangraal. The people where we saw trapped in the time dialation area were moving slower than our actual timezone. So... If Arthur and the knights of the round table threw 'rocks' or 'arrows' or blew sand, why do we not see them around the open areas?

Maybe the field ain't that slow?

Now onto Morgan LeFay's riddles. When Daniel went to Atlantis, even he said words, concepts, and language from old ancient to modern ancient would be quite different in terms of pronounciation and such. Castiana(sp.) and Zahal(sp.) was translated to Taos Vaclarush and Valos Core. From this example, it's quite clear there that the pronounciations are totally different. So when Daniel and Adria blurted out answers in ancient, the portals opened. How can this be?

I believe that "Castiana" and the others are old English translations of Ancient words (which is I think what Danny said before asking LeFay about them), while what Danny actuall said was pure Ancient.

[JanusAncient]

The Stargates were designed to calculate 50,000 years of interstellar drift. And, we're not talking about 10,000 years, we're talking about a few centuries.

It isn't protected against Goa'uld incurstion, but rather from ships being able to reach it, anyone can come if they have the Stargate address.

As for the language, those riddles were put in place at the time that medeival civilization was thriving on Earth.

[Giantevilhead]

There are three instances to the puzzles that are itching my head where I 'sense' contradictions (or inconclusiveness) but cannot fully explain what, how, or why so I'll do my best.

Spoiler:

Daniel matched up the planets to form a 'perfect' tetrahedron.

How can this be with the existance of interstellar drift as explained in an episode WAYYYYYYYY back in season 1?

Surely Carter's or the SGC's address database algorithms calculated and recalculated addresses across the years, however, space is continuingly to expand (and in some areas, shrink).

So what was once 'perfect' should not be so 'perfect' anymore.

The planet they went to wasn't accessable by ship so presumably all the planets had some sort of device that would either prevent stellar drift or synchronize stellar drift.

Spoiler:

Supposedly the new address where the anti-ori weapon is kept is 'safeguarded' from Goa'uld territory. So how does the 'village leader' know about 'Jaffa' rather then say '[Baal's] soldiers'? Which brings us to...

Spoiler:

Where were the Jaffa that supposedly escorted Baal as said by the 'village leader'? If they were trapped in the distortion field, we would've seen their bodies. Portable device sensors ceased to function after some distance with Carter's PDA, yet no visible floating rocks or anything such that the team did. Baal said the Jaffa were to run to get support, however, the proximity of the trap was quite large. Even if Baal went ahead or stayed behind the Jaffa from a distance, at least one of them should've been trapped with Baal when the box was examined.

Spoiler:

Also, let's say 10,000 years passed by since the initial villagers went on a quest for the Sangraal. The people where we saw trapped in the time dialation area were moving slower than our actual timezone. So... If Arthur and the knights of the round table threw 'rocks' or 'arrows' or blew sand, why do we not see them around the open areas?

It is entirely possible that Merlin went to those planets after the Goa'uld abandoned them.

Baal could have lied about the Jaffa. He obviously has something planned.

It's highly unlikely that Merlin created the Sangraal 10,000 years ago. Morgan said that Merlin descended in order to create the Sangraal but he wasn't ascended 10,000 years ago when he left Atlantis. The Arthurian legends are from around 1,000 years ago.

The time dilation field had holographic illusions to make the trees look like they're moving so presumably, the rocks/arrows Arthur used were also disguised.

Spoiler:

Now onto Morgan LeFay's riddles. When Daniel went to Atlantis, even he said words, concepts, and language from old ancient to modern ancient would be quite different in terms of pronounciation and such. Castiana(sp.) and Zahal(sp.) was translated to Taos Vaclarush and Valos Core. From this example, it's quite clear there that the pronounciations are totally different. So when Daniel and Adria blurted out answers in ancient, the portals opened. How can this be? The only viable conclusions I can think of are: 1) An ancient or the 'underground ancients' is/are finally stepping forward and opening the doors for Daniel and team and helping them from the sidelines and/or 2) Morgan Lafey and/or Oma are not dead.

It is possible that the test recognizes all forms of Ancient, modern, ancient, cockney, etc.

[chemicalNova]

For number one.

Thats really quite ridiculous. The map Daniel plotted the perfect tetrahedron on, was like a map of the sky. Its not like the planets were LITERALLY centimeters apart. Even after a few centuries, at the distance he plotted them on, perfect would still look perfect. Its just like looking into the night sky. After a few centuries you're looking at one or two stars in the entire sky moving <= 1mm.

chem

[Dutch_Razor]

All the stars move.

The universe expands.

In a linear way, so the tetraeder will only get bigger.

[FallenAngelII]

1) Daniel was probably using the coordinates Jack gave us when he had the repository in his head. Obviously, our maps are really old. Also, the word "perfect" is used way too often. It's most probably a near-perfect one. You also have to keep in mind that the image he was using was really zoomed out on a scale of 1 = a few billions.

2) When was it ever said it was safeguarded from the Goa'uld? After all, Ba'al went there. Maybe his Jaffa realized he wasn't a God at all and abandoned him. I mean, what kind of a god is tricked by an empty chest and then can't get out of a pesky little energy field? Maybe they went back through the gate and went home or whatever.

It is said no one has ever come back from the quest. Maybe Arthur and his men died when facing the dragon or one of the riddles or whatever.

3) The names of things are different because Sahaal and Castiana are their medieval English names. Taos Vaclarush and Valos Cor are their Ancient/Lantian names. The riddles were in Ancient and the answers were in Ancient. No language barrier there.

Oh, these theories about Merlin being an Ori must stop. If that had been the case, the Others wouldn't nuked his mortal ass. It's been clearly stated that the Ori and the Ancients split millions (65) of years ago!

"Family Ties" most probably about Vala and Adria.

[Mitchell82]

The Stargates were designed to calculate 50,000 years of interstellar drift. And, we're not talking about 10,000 years, we're talking about a few centuries.

It isn't protected against Goa'uld incurstion, but rather from ships being able to reach it, anyone can come if they have the Stargate address.

As for the language, those riddles were put in place at the time that medeival civilization was thriving on Earth.

Agreed that makes perfect sense I think you said it quite well.

[nyxlily]

Well, perhaps someone can answer MY question:

HOW did Daniel know from which point in space to even 'look' at the 3 stars/planets to see this triangle? It's a 3 dimensional space, you have to know in which direction you're looking toward to find this 'perfect' triangle. He didn't include the 4th planet to form the pyramid until he established that the 3 made this equilateral triangle. Did I miss something?

I also only skimmed through the posts above and I did not believe this was brought up. So forgive me if it was.

[PG15]

It wasn't brought up because it's not a problem.

3 points define a plane in 3D space, and 3 points also defines a triangle...and that's pretty much it. If you have access software that allows you to rotate the whole arrangement of stars, then it shouldn't be hard to see a triangle.

In fact, it'll be impossible to NOT see a triangle unless the 3 stars are perfectly in line.

[mizzoueng]

what were the 3 planets? I know there was Proclaruc Tacore and Taos Valcor (or something like that) where found in Atlantis. What was the 3rd? Camelot? Earth?

[PG15]

Castiana, Sahal, and Vagonbrei

And Camelot for the 4th.

[nyxlily]

So what you're saying is that from -any- point in space he's going to find this perfect equilateral triangle?

[PG15]

If he has software that allows him to rotate the entire arrangement of stars, and their relative positions with respect to each other and Earth...yeah, pretty much.

Remember that he's not actually out there in space ...it's all a computer simulation with the coordinates of the stars inputted into the program.