Tiny bit confused about Ascension... (Spoilers for S7 onwards)

[Flyboy]

Ok, here's a little extract from "Ascension: A Step by Step guide!"

There are two ways to ascend.

1) One can either evolve naturally and ascend by the brain becoming 100% operational and as such the indiviudal sheds their corporeal form. This has been documented in the way the Ori and the Alterans and of course the "son" of Anubis in S9. Once your brain has evolved enough, you naturally ascend.

2) One can die as opposed to ascending whilst alive as in (1). If you die, you will require an already ascended being to step in and "help" you ascend. Whatever that actually involves...

So how did the group of indiviudals in Atlantis S2 "Epiphany" ascend through metitation? It doesn't make that much sense... are there OTHER ways of ascending?

[Poseidon]

I could be wrong but i don't think its neccessarily to do with the brain evolving, don't forget Skara - was no Daniel Jackson - but he ascended (with help), i think it has to do with how you live your life, and opening your mind to new possibilities and ideas.

feel free to disagree!

[Flyboy]

I could be wrong but i don't think its neccessarily to do with the brain evolving, don't forget Skara - was no Daniel Jackson - but he ascended (with help), i think it has to do with how you live your life, and opening your mind to new possibilities and ideas.

feel free to disagree!

Skarra fits into catagory two. He had help from Oma.

We saw in S9 that Ascension ALSO occurs to any indiviudal in a high state of evolution, ie, once the brain has been fully made use of.

[Lord Zedd]

You need to be at a minimum of 76 % according to Daniel and Carter to ascend. My guess about the people in Epiphany medidate to get their brain procentage up too that %. I don't know. I think we'll never know about that since that story is finished !

[Poseidon]

Ok i agree, with the brain evolving - i was thinking of the viewpoint of when Daniel offered Jack to ascend - Daniel said he had to WANT to ascend - so willing is part of it - and Jack was sort of near death so near death must be part of the process for the less evolved beings..

Sorry im trying to work it out with you-! im not 100% sure myself- again feel free to disagree.

So in that case your right the epiphany people wern't near death - didn't appear particuarly evolved - so i guess they don't fit the category!

[Flyboy]

Ok i agree, with the brain evolving - i was thinking of the viewpoint of when Daniel offered Jack to ascend - Daniel said he had to WANT to ascend - so willing is part of it - and Jack was sort of near death so near death must be part of the process for the less evolved beings..

Sorry im trying to work it out with you-! im not 100% sure myself- again feel free to disagree.

So in that case your right the epiphany people wern't near death - didn't appear particuarly evolved - so i guess they don't fit the category!

No dont worry, this is good.

It seems that those who are helped to ascend, MUST make the choice at death.

But others must evolve to ascension.

But the ones in Epiphany said Shep could have ascended.... Which is confusing.

[Poseidon]

I totally agree, im just as confused, Skara, Daniel, Jack were all offered help near death - Anubis's Son, was evolving on his own and didn't need help - and i know someones gonna staff blast me for this one but - the "epiphany" people didn't seem that evolved - far from it actually.....

saying that they were creating that monster thingy with their minds, evidence of more evolved mental abilities??? Just theorizing could be completley wrong.

[Flyboy]

No, the monster thing sounds about right... but saying Shep could ascend too... thats a little off.

[Poseidon]

No you were quite right in the first place - you can't compare Anubis's son to the "epiphany" people - they lived in huts and i couldn't say i was bowled over by how intelligent they were - Anubis's son was an evil genius that could do allsorts and seemed to have substantial knowledge on all sorts of things.

I agree the Shep come on lets ascend now thing was way, way off.

[Colonel_Stickler]

I think some people are confusing technological advancement with human evolution. If you recall, the people who lived in the sanctuary chose (via their ancestors) to live there in the manner in which they did. However, they were quite evolved in some regards. Remember that Anubis' son continued to evolve as he learned how to employ mental disciplines such as telekinesis telepathy. The ancients in Ephiphany had many of those gifts, telekinesis, healing, the ability to sense people coming from a great distance. Physiologically, the people from Epiphany were very advanced human beings, they just didn't live in a technologically advanced manner.

[Callista]

I'll preface this by saying that I haven't seen "Epiphany" so I can't comment on them.

With Sheppard, however, might they have been saying that he could gain it through meditation and opening his mind? I'm thinking about the monk in "Maternal Instinct" who ascended after being shot. They didn't really tell us if he ascended on his own or if Oma ascended him, but he was teaching Daniel about meditation. I got the impression that that may be a third way to ascend.
1) evolved brain powers (like Anubis' son got)
2) already ascended being helps you when you die (like Daniel and Skaara got)
3) opening your mind through meditation to the point where you can accept ascension despite not having an "evolved" brain or a helper

Didn't Oma tell Daniel that anyone can ascend who is willing to open their minds like Daniel did? And Daniel told Jack that Oma's cryptic sayings were just a way to get you to open your mind. Maybe if one had the time and dedication (like the monk) one could ascend on their own merit with just the guidance of an instructor like Oma or maybe the people in Epiphany but not any real effort on the instructor's part? This one would be more of a "religious"-type ascension than the other two. Being good or evil sort of plays into this one where it obviously doesn't play into number 1 and number 2 can be tricked (like Anubis tricked Oma). It seems it would be difficult for an evil or selfish person to ascend through method number 3.

Also, Oma and Jim (aka Anubis) said that there were many different levels of ascension. Maybe you reach different levels depending on how you got there.

[Ziel]

I think there's natural ascension and helped ascension, but both involve opening your mind to the possiblity of ascending

[Callista]

I think there's natural ascension and helped ascension, but both involve opening your mind to the possiblity of ascending

That's true, but I think there is more to it than just accepting the possibility. There seems to be a philosophical or spiritual aspect to it as well, at least in the third method that I proposed. Maybe accepting the scope of ascension or the "meaning of life stuff" plays some part.

Is there also a possibility that Shep's brain is somewhat evolved but he just doesn't know it? Thor said that Jack's brain was a step forward in human evolution when it could hold the knowledge downloaded into it, however briefly. Maybe having the ancient gene is enough? Intellect doesn't seem to have anything to do with the evolution part.

[jenks]

Ok, here's a little extract from "Ascension: A Step by Step guide!"

There are two ways to ascend.

1) One can either evolve naturally and ascend by the brain becoming 100% operational and as such the indiviudal sheds their corporeal form. This has been documented in the way the Ori and the Alterans and of course the "son" of Anubis in S9. Once your brain has evolved enough, you naturally ascend.

2) One can die as opposed to ascending whilst alive as in (1). If you die, you will require an already ascended being to step in and "help" you ascend. Whatever that actually involves...

So how did the group of indiviudals in Atlantis S2 "Epiphany" ascend through metitation? It doesn't make that much sense... are there OTHER ways of ascending?

You have to be first physically capable, but you also have to have your brain in the correct electro chemical state for the change to happen, the meditation and 'releasing of burden' is what allowed this to happen.

[GateofDOOM]

I think the people who ascended in epiphany would have been able to help Sheppard ascend as well, once they were finished

It's tempting to think about what Shepard might have done if his team had not arrived when they did...

And just because those people didn't know anything about technology doesn't mean they aren't smart. They've just focused their energies elsewhere. They would probably pick up advanced math and physics better than we could if they ever bothered to try.