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Atlantis City Ship stardrive speed: possible spoilers

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    #31
    its all about power i guess, the more power the fater it goes

    im guessing
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      #32
      Originally posted by wilson359 View Post
      I was thinking more structually than anything (I should've been more clear)

      When Atlantis has the shield on it forms a bubble around the city. If you recall that is the "hull" of the flying city. I am sure you are aware that creating this bubble you eliminate the "aerodynamic issues" you have with a space ship. There is no risk that the edges are less aerodynamic than the front side, etc. Of course, size does matter but the 3ZPMs are more than enough. IF people doubt this, they should recall Janus. He illustrates the complexity of the whole ZPM trident. One can make some calculations to divide the 3 ZPM parallel power output. There are so many combinations, depending on the situation. If you are in a real hurry, you set 2 ZPMS for the stardrive and 1 for Shield +other vital systems. People here would argue that one is not enough; it is but not for a very long period of time, that is why with 2 100% ZPMs powering the star drive you would travel to Earth faster than Thor with his Neutrino hyper drive. Why? Because the energy output compensates the weight....

      Analogy: A Maybach 62 is faster than most "smaller" cars because its weight is compensated by the hundreds of horse power added by the engine manufacturer.


      P.S. Someone here mentioned that the Ancients should have taken the city back to Earth. When Weir travels in time to the Lantian period she is in the middle of a war. I think the Ancients were smart enough not to risk taking off in the middle of a Wraith armada. They were under attack for a long time, by the time they would have taken off, reach orbit (all this under wraith dart attack) there prepare to jump into hyper space (here a dozen hiveships attacking it). This could have been suicide. Best case scenario, they jump in hyper space and don't make it to Earth because the ZPMs end up depleted. Best course of action, sink the city and let the water take the strain off the shield. I still support the ancients. In order to discover the secrets of the universe you need to make mistakes.
      Last edited by Integrabyte; 14 February 2007, 04:33 AM.

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        #33
        Originally posted by verbalkint View Post
        That would be sweet if they did provide the audience with a map so that we could actually put distances between galaxies and planets into cannon. Come on TPTB, its been 10 years and we don't even have that yet, pick up the pace.

        I would LOVE to see a map, of the galaxy, poissibly including important planets on it. Like Abydos, Dakara, Chulak, etc..
        As to the Asguard and Ida, perhaps earth is on a 'spiral' of our galaxy that is closer to Ida that it is to Pegasus..

        Had the lantians needed more ZPMs in order to use the city at it's full capacity, they would have added the extra slots for additional ZPMs. As you can clearly see, 3 do more than enough.
        That gives me an idea for other 'areas' of atlantis the team have yet to explore. Say a secondary power station with another ZPM slot or two..

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          #34
          Originally posted by obox View Post
          Remember that the Asgard are so quick because their ships generate way more power then Earth ships. The Deadalus did the trip from Earth to Atlantis super quick when it had the ZPM powering it.
          So that means i think:
          More power = Fast hyperdrives
          This is correct. Tau'ri ships do not produce sufficient power to maximise the output efficiency of the Hyperdrive engine to 100%. Asgard ships have the nessesary power. When powered by the ZPM the Deadalus maximised the output of its Hyperdrive to 100% therefore traveling at the speed of an Asgard ship. Which is fast. So the amount of power provided is directly proportional to the efficiency of the Hyperdrive engine. More power faster ship.

          Spoiler:

          Carter?

          Sir, this is the 5th incoming wormhole in the last hour & a half

          Ok, I'm here 2 hours early, when did you get here?

          I... haven't left yet

          Carter, didn't I ORDER you to get a life?

          ---------------------------------------------------

          A fools paradise is a wise mans prison

          Never judge a book by it's cover

          One mans ceiling is another mans floor

          Never...run with sissors?

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Bragi View Post
            Or explain why it might take longer.

            Like, they couldn't go at full speed because of. . . I dunno. . . someone was cooking a turkey for some fresh sandwiches while they were in hyperspace, and it was draining power from the engines.
            i love it!

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              #36
              Originally posted by .jolinar. View Post
              This is correct. Tau'ri ships do not produce sufficient power to maximise the output efficiency of the Hyperdrive engine to 100%. Asgard ships have the nessesary power. When powered by the ZPM the Deadalus maximised the output of its Hyperdrive to 100% therefore traveling at the speed of an Asgard ship. Which is fast. So the amount of power provided is directly proportional to the efficiency of the Hyperdrive engine. More power faster ship.
              So true, but then how long would it take for atlantis to travel back to earth?? or vice versa??

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                #37
                Asura is from Hindu Mythology and means demon/or evil beings, just thought ud like to know there something where overlooking there is a mystry race in the galalxy and have the ability to make the x303's look second hand at end of the day it all comes down to research and devlopement and the lack of it other than the holograms tech, area 51 aint done jack, and why is SGC allways critizied they're the one's keeping Area 51 open...anyways....i think they should concentrate on improving firepower and speed they should find a way of delievering Mark 2 War heads in missle form

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by sparkygate View Post
                  So true, but then how long would it take for atlantis to travel back to earth?? or vice versa??
                  Well considering it's more advanced hyperdrive engine, it's power supply and size.I would say it would take Atlantis around two days to reach Earth.
                  Try calculatingit better from 'first strike'

                  Spoiler:

                  Carter?

                  Sir, this is the 5th incoming wormhole in the last hour & a half

                  Ok, I'm here 2 hours early, when did you get here?

                  I... haven't left yet

                  Carter, didn't I ORDER you to get a life?

                  ---------------------------------------------------

                  A fools paradise is a wise mans prison

                  Never judge a book by it's cover

                  One mans ceiling is another mans floor

                  Never...run with sissors?

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by .jolinar. View Post
                    Well considering it's more advanced hyperdrive engine, it's power supply and size.I would say it would take Atlantis around two days to reach Earth.
                    Try calculatingit better from 'first strike'
                    Two days??? i thought it would be shorter tha that.... because having three ZPM powering the hyperdrive (shield wouldnt take up that much power and life support system too)

                    Comment


                      #40
                      All we know from 'Frist Strike' is that Atlantis should of been in hyperspace for a few more hours. And that was to the nearest nonpopu;ated planet, with a large ocean. Although, we have no definate location as to were atlantis is in relation to the planet they were travelling to, but given the amount of power they had (alittle over a day with sheilds - taking a continuous hit from the beam) and McKays confidence that they would make it, its pretty safe to assume that an average solar system distance is acceptable - also keep in mind that they were looking for a nearby planet with a large ocean, indicating that there may very well have been a planet closer)

                      We know that it took the the daedulous in 'No Man's Land' <= 16 hours to reach the outer edges of the pegasus galalxy to catch up with the hives. Although, it should be mentioned that the hive ships took off from a location near Lantias solar system (indicated by the hive queen stating that theres a hive nearby in this system (i'd say within distance of 2-3 solar systems from Lantia's)) - so lets assume that it takes the hives around 20 hours to reach the outer-edge of the pegasus galaxy (they had to rest in order to recover from the effects of hyperspace radiation - and the daedulous needed time to make emergency repairs before leaving to engage the wraith ships with the orion).

                      It should also be noted that the information the wraith used to modify the hyperdrives were taken from the aurora mission files - so it is safe to assume that the wraith were using the Lantian Inter-galactic hyperdrive, as apposed to the aurora-class's interstellar hyperdrive.

                      And we know that it takes the daedulous 3 weeks to reach atlantis from earth. So figure 1 day to travel to the outer edge of the galaxy (from either location) and then 10-12 days travel between the void (that seems pretty realisitic). I beleive the asgard (when transporting Woolsey to atlantis) did the trip in 2 weeks ( I beleive Weir stated that the asgard were able to shave a week of the travel time).

                      And then we see the daedulous do the trip in 4 days with a ZPM tied into the system - a 3.5 million light year distance (as stated in the show).

                      So yes, power is the one thing that would enable any one of those ships to have faster hyperdrives/sublight, stronger sheilds, etc.

                      You also have to concider how many more systems Atlantis has compared to a asgard ship. Sure the asgard ship can do the trip in 2 weeks, but it probably has alot less systems, rooms, computers, etc to power, as apposed to atlantis, which is a 'flying' city. Even in 'First Strike', McKay and Zelenka had to shut off all non critical/secondary systems just to leave enough power to actually fly the city - with the drilling platform tied into the systems ( I beleive it was 70% of total power consumption is going to be used up during the first 10 seconds of flight ( you gotta make those ions build up enough force to move something as massive as atlantis - even if its in a zero g environment - and that can only be done by a) pumping more gas (fuel) which is unlikely since atlantis, dispite its size can only hold so much fuel -or- b) provide more power to the ionizers (which actually create the thrust using positive/negative charged grids - or w/e ionization method they use - it still comes down to what kinda electrical power you have).

                      The daedulous on the other hand has a small number of primary systems that need to be powered compared to atlantis and an asgard ship. Its primary systems are weapons, sheilds, hyperdrive, and sublight - but the naquadah generators can only pump so much power out - and those 'small' systems turn into huge power hogs, given the nature of them

                      So in a nutshell

                      Atlantis - atronomical amounts of power - lots of systems to be powered (primary, secondary, labs, housing, etc) - 3 week travel to earh from Atlantis (3 ZPM)

                      Asgards hip - lots of power - decent amount of systems (primary, secondary, some labs) - 2 week travel to earth from Atlantis (Unknown number of neutrino ion generators

                      Daedalous - not so much power - decent amount of systems (primary, secondary, hangars, some labs) - 3 week travel to earth from Atlantis/ 4 day travel with ZPM.

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                        #41
                        makes you wonder what the Aurora class ship are powered by, the power requirement must be huge considering the size and fire power it carries

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                          #42
                          Talking about laws of physics, did no-one consider how shields can now magically work while in hyperspace lol.

                          Otherwise it would be impossible

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Gala View Post
                            Talking about laws of physics, did no-one consider how shields can now magically work while in hyperspace lol.

                            Otherwise it would be impossible
                            well, that all depends on how you think a hyperdrive functions.

                            However, without getting into a never ending technical debate about something that doesn't actually exsist: As I have said, I beleive that Atlantis has two types of shields, an atmospheric and a defense. Obviously the power requirements for each of these types of shields would vary, significantly! One needs only be denser then air, while the other needs to withstand anything it was designed to go up against. Now, while Thor has stated that shields and weapons cannot be used in hyperspace, he never explains why, so you have to ask yourself that question. When it comes down to it, its power, in my opinion (weapons for the obvious reasons, you'd be traveling faster then the actual plasma shot could ever). A shield, like Atlantis's defense shield, requires alot of power just to active it. The more strain that is put on it, the more power is drained to recharge the shield. Now, what happens when your in hyperspace that allows you to maintain zero time dilation? You have a field that is pulling you and pushing you at the same time. Oops, looks like I do have to get into the technical stuff lol. Ok, if you've done any reading on ufo's or have looked at the air force these days there utilizing plasma to significantly reduce air drag. The Air Forces prototype shoots plasma out in front of the craft, which is then pulled around it, and then recirculated out the front. The amount of air drag that you reduce is relative to how much plasma you use. Now, with shields, plasma is also used. A magnetic field is created, and since plasma is attracted to magentic fields, they start to cling onto the field. The more plasma you use, the denser the field gets, the more it can withstand. I beleive in order to create an atmospheric shield (for electron beams) you need 2 kW of power, and its a small diameter, flat, not spheric - look up plasma valve if your interested.

                            Fortunatly, i'm working on a stargate ship-based mod for Half-Life and while I was working on the design document, i had to determine certain values for the ships power, shield strength, weapons, etc - I tried to keep the numbers 'realistic'. So for this topic, i'm going to set some standards, atleast for my claims.

                            ZPM = 5.25 TW (Terawatts)
                            Atlantis shield requirements = 3.9 GW (Gigawatts)

                            * For a real life reference, current nuclear power plants can produce as much as 250 GW of power

                            These estimates are based on the show information that 10 hive ships, firing 2 shots per second each, at the zpm at max output (there is significant evidence to suggest that a ZPM's power output can be controlled and limited, and in certain circumstances, will actually increase it power output, as seen in 'Adrift'). THe only flaw in these calculations is that we dont know exactly how long it takes to fully recharge Atlantis's shields. Assuming these power estimates are Watts per hour, and that the shield takes 90 minutes to recharge, they will work for the time being. Also, because we know that a ZPM can be depleted, my estimate, based on all my figures, leaves a ZPM with 78.7 TW worth of power.

                            Obviously the hyperdrive will require a given amount of energy to create the window, maintain the window for the time of travel, and then shut off the window safely (it has also been suggested that a hyperdrive, if not calibrated properly will destroy the ship going into hyperspace, and presumably when exiting - 'Lifeline'). If a defense shield is turned on you'd need to power for the magnetic field, and then enough power to create the plasma density needed for the shield. However, as stated, an atmospheric shield would require far less since it need only maintain an atmosphere. Will it still drain power? of coarse, but not as much as a defense shield. Atlantis is the only know ship that has an open hull design. Yes, it has been shown that an Asgard ship's shield can be modified to prevent atmospheric decompression (the episode were teal'c had to plant an explosive charge on the side of a belinsker).

                            So theres my reasoning as to why I feel Atlantis can have a shield on during hyperspace travel.

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                              #44
                              Spoiler:
                              Well we now know that Asura is within 2000 (+/-500) light years of Lantiea, like rodney says at the end of Adrift.


                              And I think the reason the shields don't work in hyperspace is because of the power requirements and the fact, that the ships are built more aerodynamically than Atlantis, which needs the shield to keep in one piece, due to the sudden acceration


                              Joe Mallozzi: "Like my grandmother used to say: Whenever a gate closes, a hyperspace window opens…"

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by beale947 View Post
                                Spoiler:
                                Well we now know that Asura is within 2000 (+/-500) light years of Lantiea, like rodney says at the end of Adrift.


                                And I think the reason the shields don't work in hyperspace is because of the power requirements and the fact, that the ships are built more aerodynamically than Atlantis, which needs the shield to keep in one piece, due to the sudden acceration
                                Actually, that distance is not really from lantea... Atlantis was within 2000 light years of Asuras after it prematurely dropped out of hyperspace and after it had been drifting through space at the speed that it dropped out of hyperspace, the length of 'Adrift' - remember, it wasn't until 'Lifeline' that they made the jump. And also to mention, that distance of 2000 light years was the range the hyperdrive would be able to reach. It took the Apollo 50 hyerspace jumps to go from the nearest habitable planet with a large ocean to the original planet, Lantea (Lifeline) - we have no idea a) what the 304's hyperdrive speed is and b) the distance from Lantea to the planet with the large ocean.

                                And what does aerodynamics have to do with ships that obviously use anti-gravity technology, and for the most part, operate in space, where air drag is not even a concern.

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