ST: Enterprise Discussion and Appreciation Thread

[aretood2]

They do have forensic genetics...

And until the events in S4, T'Pau was an outcast from "polite" Vulcan society; a member of the rebellious group who were looking for the Vulcan version of their bible, which Archer found in The Forge. Looks to me that sparked a revolution on Vulcan, morphing them into the Vulcans we see in TOS or later.

They had that too during Picard's time, but that didn't stop that one crewman from claiming Vulcan heritage when he in fact had Romulan heritage. I'm willing to bet that unless someone is looking for it, they wouldn't be able to tell that a Vulcan has Romulan genes.

[Annoyed]

I forgot just how bad the finale for this was. What a disgrace.

[VampyreWraith]

I think I may have skipped the finale the last time I rewatched it. I've decided to re-watch all of the Star Trek series and movies (in the "prime" timeline) in chronological order. Ive usually done rewatchs by order of series air date in the past, but I've decided to be different this time around. I'm halfway through the first season of Enterprise. I'd almost forgotten how much Archer and Trip used to annoy me early on.

[Annoyed]

Well, having just finished a rewatch of this...

Archer was a better captain than I remember him being.

And I've always liked Trip. He's cool.

T'Pol's character was ok, but the actress just never seemed to get comfortable in the role. Many times through the run, she was like a deer in the headlights, clearly uncomfortable despite nothing in the story at the time which would explain that.

Speaking of the Vulcans, as they were portrayed throughout this series, I'm surprised Earth chose to have anything to do with them at all. Bunch of arrogant bastages. Granted, events in S4 seem to have altered the course of Vulcan's society, pushing it in the direction that we are more familiar with.

I stand by my original conclusion that the S3 "Xindi superweapon" arc killed the series. With 5 subspecies of Xindi & Time travel involved, it was a very complex story, too complex for the casual viewer to completely grasp, and a lot of people tuned out as a result. I myself remember getting bored with it, and tuning in.. "Oh, Xindi crap again, click".
On a more logical level, wouldn't a species capable of building a weapon which could destroy a planet at that point in the technological development of the planets in this area, which all seemed to be about the same, have become the dominant player?

Without question, the best episode of the series was S4's two parter "In a Mirror, Darkly". That was delightful to watch.

As far as the ending, they *should* have used the two parter "Demons" and "Terra Prime" as the finale, with the creation of the Federation as the conclusion.

However, "These are the voyages..." was not entirely barren. Shran's asking Archer for help and Archer's decision to help him was a good illustration of how far Archer would go to foster the level of trust needed for such an alliance to work.

[aretood2]

I forgot just how bad the finale for this was. What a disgrace.

Not only was it bad, it also served as a reminder of all the missed opportunities because TPTB forgot it was a prequel.

I think I may have skipped the finale the last time I rewatched it. I've decided to re-watch all of the Star Trek series and movies (in the "prime" timeline) in chronological order. Ive usually done rewatchs by order of series air date in the past, but I've decided to be different this time around. I'm halfway through the first season of Enterprise. I'd almost forgotten how much Archer and Trip used to annoy me early on.

I never felt they were annoying, a little dense at times, but not annoying.

Well, having just finished a rewatch of this...

Archer was a better captain than I remember him being.

And I've always liked Trip. He's cool.

T'Pol's character was ok, but the actress just never seemed to get comfortable in the role. Many times through the run, she was like a deer in the headlights, clearly uncomfortable despite nothing in the story at the time which would explain that.

I read somewhere that Blalock hated her costumes and hated that she didn't have the right eyebrows during the first two seasons. She was, apparently, a fan of TOS. I'm assuming that had something to do with that. But she was also portraying a vulcan constantly annoyed who bought into the illogical nonsense of the Romulan infested High Command.

Speaking of the Vulcans, as they were portrayed throughout this series, I'm surprised Earth chose to have anything to do with them at all. Bunch of arrogant bastages. Granted, events in S4 seem to have altered the course of Vulcan's society, pushing it in the direction that we are more familiar with.

I had that question too. I guess there were still enough nice offscreen Vulcans that made it possible for Earth and Vulcan to be besties.

I stand by my original conclusion that the S3 "Xindi superweapon" arc killed the series. With 5 subspecies of Xindi & Time travel involved, it was a very complex story, too complex for the casual viewer to completely grasp, and a lot of people tuned out as a result. I myself remember getting bored with it, and tuning in.. "Oh, Xindi crap again, click".
On a more logical level, wouldn't a species capable of building a weapon which could destroy a planet at that point in the technological development of the planets in this area, which all seemed to be about the same, have become the dominant player?

They shouldn't have done that entire arch at all. It was a good way to end the mission of randomly and aimlessly going all over that small corner of the Galaxy with the occasional Suliban shenanigans, but they could have done it another way. Ignoring I did enjoy the character stuff that happened.

[Annoyed]

I read somewhere that Blalock hated her costumes and hated that she didn't have the right eyebrows during the first two seasons. She was, apparently, a fan of TOS. I'm assuming that had something to do with that. But she was also portraying a vulcan constantly annoyed who bought into the illogical nonsense of the Romulan infested High Command.

Well, she did sign on to be eye candy. The costumes come with the territory.

I noticed the eyebrows too. Her own go up, and then curve back down as is common, but they just drew the straight brows of Vuclans on her face. It was quite obvious they didn't follow the natural lines of her face. Additionally, in some scenes, they didn't do that good a job of hiding her natural brows with makeup.

[aretood2]

Well, she did sign on to be eye candy. The costumes come with the territory.

No offense, but that is a very old fashioned way of thinking.

I noticed the eyebrows too. Her own go up, and then curve back down as is common, but they just drew the straight brows of Vuclans on her face. It was quite obvious they didn't follow the natural lines of her face. Additionally, in some scenes, they didn't do that good a job of hiding her natural brows with makeup.

I didn't notice that make up issue (I first saw it on an older tv) until my rewatch.

[Annoyed]

No offense, but that is a very old fashioned way of thinking.

Name me one Trek franchise entry (aside from animated, that was on Sat. AM for kids!) that didn't have an eye-candy character?
TOS: Yeoman Rand. Ever notice the soft lens focus whenever she was the center of the image on the screen?
TNG: Troi for the guys, Riker for the gals.
ENT: T'Pol
VOY: Ummm... you need to ask?

And on and on. Eye candy characters are as much a part of that show as Klingons. Why else would wardrobe stuff all of the aforementioned ladies into girdles & corsets?

I didn't notice that make up issue (I first saw it on an older tv) until my rewatch.

A LOT of older material doesn't pass muster on modern home entertainment hardware. High Definition is hell on actors.

[aretood2]

Name me one Trek franchise entry (aside from animated, that was on Sat. AM for kids!) that didn't have an eye-candy character?
TOS: Yeoman Rand. Ever notice the soft lens focus whenever she was the center of the image on the screen?
TNG: Troi for the guys, Riker for the gals.
ENT: T'Pol
VOY: Ummm... you need to ask?

And on and on. Eye candy characters are as much a part of that show as Klingons. Why else would wardrobe stuff all of the aforementioned ladies into girdles & corsets?


A LOT of older material doesn't pass muster on modern home entertainment hardware. High Definition is hell on actors.

Voyager and ENT caught a lot of flak over it, and rightfully so. Jerri Ryan was criminally underused and underappreciated if you ask me, and her catsuit certainly did not help. DS9 is missing the obvious eye candy btw (Leta doesn't count cause that was narratively consistent and made sense). I can excuse a show made in the 1980s and especially the 1960s for doing that. And speaking of TNG, Troi ended up getting a Uniform just before DS9 started in the 1990s because the times were changing...and not to mention the reason why Troi originally didn't have the uniform on was because of some sort of allergic reaction to her part so set design took advantage of that by giving her short skirts and low necklines. had it not been for that, she would have been in a uniform a lot sooner.

It is old fashioned and it was dramatically out of place in ENT and I can't blame Blalock for not being fond of her initial look. I don't mind eye candy (especially if it is balanced, as in some for the guys and some for the girls). But nothing so blatant as Seven of Nine, that's just downright offensive. And that's what I mean about old fashioned. T'Pol's look wasn't as bad as Seven's, but still pretty bad by contemporary standards.

[Annoyed]

Voyager and ENT caught a lot of flak over it, and rightfully so. Jerri Ryan was criminally underused and underappreciated if you ask me, and her catsuit certainly did not help. DS9 is missing the obvious eye candy btw (Leta doesn't count cause that was narratively consistent and made sense). I can excuse a show made in the 1980s and especially the 1960s for doing that. And speaking of TNG, Troi ended up getting a Uniform just before DS9 started in the 1990s because the times were changing...and not to mention the reason why Troi originally didn't have the uniform on was because of some sort of allergic reaction to her part so set design took advantage of that by giving her short skirts and low necklines. had it not been for that, she would have been in a uniform a lot sooner.

It is old fashioned and it was dramatically out of place in ENT and I can't blame Blalock for not being fond of her initial look. I don't mind eye candy (especially if it is balanced, as in some for the guys and some for the girls). But nothing so blatant as Seven of Nine, that's just downright offensive. And that's what I mean about old fashioned. T'Pol's look wasn't as bad as Seven's, but still pretty bad by contemporary standards.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm a lot older than you are.

Aside from Rand, Trek producers could have had women in any of those characters portrayed by actresses who were not "hotties". They didn't have to choose the people they did, nor did they have to stuff them into the costumes. But that's what the creators wanted, and that's the job that the girls applied for. Eye candy. They can't gripe about it after the fact just because the standards of the day have changed later on.

[P-90_177]

In case you haven't noticed, I'm a lot older than you are.

Aside from Rand, Trek producers could have had women in any of those characters portrayed by actresses who were not "hotties". They didn't have to choose the people they did, nor did they have to stuff them into the costumes. But that's what the creators wanted, and that's the job that the girls applied for. Eye candy. They can't gripe about it after the fact just because the standards of the day have changed later on.

I doubt it said "Eye-Candy" on the casting sheets... Well... It might of been on the TOS ones. It was the 60's after all. No doubt trek producers were looking for very attractive women to fill all the roles going. It was the 90's and 00's, of course they were, and I'm sure all the Trek actresses from Sirtis, Crosby and McFadden to Blalock and Park probably knew that their looks played a big role in them getting picked, but In the case of Ryan and Blalock I doubt that it was right there in the casting that they were being selected as some eye-candy geek fantasy in the way that they were. Costuming comes later after all, and if the question of if they're ok wearing tight fitting clothing came up they were probably thinking more the way the other female Starfleet officer uniforms are form fitting and less what they actually wear. Jeri Ryan probably kinda got that impression very early on and decided she wasn't going to let it bother her and she was going to do as great a job as she could (and did). But in Blalock's case, she already was a fan of TOS. She knew what Vulcans were like, she probably had a picture in her head of what she would be playing and figured she'd probably be wearing a Vulcan like uniform like the Starfleet uniforms, then the day of costume fitting comes along and that is when she would probably realise what it was going to be like and at that point it is too late for doubts because by then the contracts are signed. Three seasons later they come to her and say "Well we're giving you a new look which may be a bit more comfortable for you, (I have no idea but her season 3 and 4 outfit has a look of being a little more padded so I hope it felt a little bit nicer to be in) but we're gonna cut the neck line down a bit." By this point she probably has it in mind that this is what Trek is about and just says fine, whatever and moves on. Another season roles by and the script says she's now in Starfleet "Great!" finally she gets the proper uniform and the rank and everything... But no... They just add a patch and some rank pips to her outfit... I mean seriously I can imagine she would accept a certain level of objectivisation because of the time and what she knew going in... But I doubt to the degree they actually went with in T'Pol.

[cosmichobo]

So, 15 years later, I've finally watched all of ST:E...

Almost 2 decades ago I watched the first season reasonably faithfully, but that's about as far as I got. Now thanks to Netflix I've seen ever episode, the good and the bad, including the terrible finale. What an insult! But you've heard that before.

I've read various insights into the direction the series took, and the likely reasons the show - and that era of Star Trek - came to an end, but I have to say that the final 2 seasons actually impressed me more than I expected. The Xindi storyline was a first for Star Trek, taking a whole season to focus on one storyline, without too many divergences, and IMO didn't get too stale. And season 4's 2 and 3 parters worked well too, allowing for a bunch of long-form stories rather than the Trek-traditional 45min and its over approach.

Knowing ahead of time that the finale was going to be a let-down, I was glad to get the Demons/Terra Prime story, which felt at least like a reasonable send off in its own right, given the latter part of the series' depiction of xenophobia. It actually made me think of Picard (series) in that regard - being topical rather than just bland.

I am a fan of Scott Bakula from his QLeap days... and I like the character of Captain Archer.... but, when he's trying to play tough, I just don't feel it (most of the time). He's just too darned nice. I can understand why he's voted least popular Star Trek captain... (yet - a big part of me wishes that - if this were a glimpse of our future - there would be more captains like him flying around in big metal ships across the galaxy, because I would choose him to be Humanity's representative over any other captain...)

ST:Enterprise done... now to catch that final season of DS9. I hope Jadzia survives that Pah Wraith attack, and Sisko gets promoted off the station to command a real star ship...