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  1. #1
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default "Jonathan" O'neill

    I've seen the name Jonathan O'neill on fansites/wikipedia and stuff. Did people just assume his full name was Jonathan or has been mentioned on the series, because I know someone called John and it isn't short for Jonathan, it is just written as John on his birth certificate.
    Last edited by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac; September 26th, 2007 at 01:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Lieutenant General Pharaoh Atem's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by wako!
    I've seen the name Jonathan O'neill on fansites/wikipedia and stuff. Did people just assume his full name was Jonathan or has been mentioned on the series, because I know some called John and it isn't short for Jonathan, it is just written as John on his birth certificate.
    it was in the series in entiny it was show on the big screen in the brifing room

    not the right cap but it was in this scene http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...4/76e14f63.jpg

  3. #3
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt.Mal Reynolds
    it was in the series in entiny it was show on the big screen in the brifing room

    not the right cap but it was in this scene http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...4/76e14f63.jpg
    thanks *goes to get DVD*

  4. #4
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Spoiler:

    Got the cap but according to this his name is John not Jonathan, which means every stargate fansite, wiki and the simpsons is wrong!

  5. #5
    Lieutenant General Pharaoh Atem's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by wako!
    Spoiler:

    Got the cap but according to this his name is John not Jonathan, which means every stargate fansite, wiki and the simpsons is wrong!
    john is short for Jonathan

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt.Mal Reynolds
    john is short for Jonathan
    didn't you read the first post, I have a friend called John and it isn't short for Jonathan, it just says John on his Birth Certificate. On a milatary profile it would have your first name as it appears on your birth certificate, his real name is John not Jonathan!

  7. #7
    Second Lieutenant Aurum's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by wako!
    didn't you read the first post, I have a friend called John and it isn't short for Jonathan, it just says John on his Birth Certificate. On a milatary profile it would have your first name as it appears on your birth certificate, his real name is John not Jonathan!
    Well, I don't know anything about military profiles/birth certificates, but it's true, John doesn't have to be short for Jonathan, I know a few who are simply 'John'. I also have a friend who's named Jonathan and goes by Jon, spelt without an 'h'. Although, in terms of Jack's real first name, I was always under the impression it was infact Jonathan.

  8. #8
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    all i know is that jack is sometimes used as a pet name(for those who dont know a pet name would be a name that a father/mother uses for their children) for jonathan

  9. #9
    Lieutenant Colonel The Signal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    As far as I am aware, Jonathon was his name in the Movie, thats all there is to it, and no John isnt short for Jonathan, as Wako said earlier. Why is it such a shock that Wikipedia is wrong?
    Equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who is confronted with it.
    - Joss Whedon - Equality Now

  10. #10
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by PtahTheCreationGod
    As far as I am aware, Jonathon was his name in the Movie, thats all there is to it
    Ahhhhh but his son was called Tyler and he only had one "L" in O'neill in the movie as well

  11. #11
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by PtahTheCreationGod
    Why is it such a shock that Wikipedia is wrong?
    Not just that, the Omnipedia, stargate sg1 solutions and just about every other fansite

  12. #12
    Lieutenant Colonel The Signal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by wako!
    Ahhhhh but his son was called Tyler and he only had one "L" in O'neill in the movie as well
    I know, but a lot of people will take anything in the movie as fact until it has been directly contradicted in the series, and seeing as its barely noticable in Entity only the eagle eyed viewers will see "John O'Neill". On top of this, it is a fairly common misconception to take John as a version of Jonathan, so most fansite editors, and even David working on the Omnipedia wouldnt think to change it.
    Equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who is confronted with it.
    - Joss Whedon - Equality Now

  13. #13
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by PtahTheCreationGod
    On top of this, it is a fairly common misconception to take John as a version of Jonathan, so most fansite editors, and even David working on the Omnipedia wouldnt think to change it.
    I asked if it could the Omnipedia could be changed in the "Ask the Mods" thread, do you think they will?

    Quote Originally Posted by PtahTheCreationGod
    I know, but a lot of people will take anything in the movie as fact until it has been directly contradicted in the series, and seeing as its barely noticable in Entity only the eagle eyed viewers will see "John O'Neill".
    I would say that scene in Entity does directly contradict it.

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Colonel The Signal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by wako!
    I would say that scene in Entity does directly contradict it.
    Yes, but your missing my point, only people who look VERY closely will see it, its not as if we had a scene in the episode with Hammond and Jack

    Hammond: So, your name is John?
    Jack: Yup, and did you know thats NOT short for Jonathon? Theres a Jonathon O'Neil in the airforce who goes by the name of Jack, no sence of humour.

    If people don't see it, or hear it, they won't know, and its hardly the most obvious contradiction in the world.

    Oh, and to answer your question, yes I would imagine David will get onto it fairly quickly.
    Equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who is confronted with it.
    - Joss Whedon - Equality Now

  15. #15
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by PtahTheCreationGod
    Yes, but your missing my point, only people who look VERY closely will see it
    Yes but the fact remains that it is still there, no matter how closely you have to look it is still there, which in my view makes it canon.

    Spoiler:

    I had to do it, just to make sure I capped the Movie credits Yep checks out! Now it's just which one you consider to be canon, if you haven't already guessed I think his name is John!

  16. #16
    Lieutenant Colonel The Signal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by wako!
    Yes but the fact remains that it is still there, no matter how closely you have to look it is still there, which in my view makes it canon.
    Nobody is disputing whether it is canon or not. What I am trying to say is that not everyone will see that ID, so how would they know to change it? Furthermore, very few people would think to change it even if they knew what the ID card said, as, I would imagine, 90% of people would think John is another version of Jonathon. Nobody's perfect.
    Equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who is confronted with it.
    - Joss Whedon - Equality Now

  17. #17
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by PtahTheCreationGod
    Nobody is disputing whether it is canon or not. What I am trying to say is that not everyone will see that ID, so how would they know to change it? Furthermore, very few people would think to change it even if they knew what the ID card said, as, I would imagine, 90% of people would think John is another version of Jonathon.
    I wasn't saying they should change it I was just saying that it was wrong.

    Come on people, the entire Harry Potter timeline is based on one line in the second book. We're sci-fi fans, we're supposed to be intelligent!

    ETA: ok so I did say it needed to changed on the Omnipedia in the "Ask the Mods" thread, but not for all the other sites.........yet
    Last edited by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac; July 27th, 2006 at 05:12 AM.

  18. #18
    Lieutenant Colonel Mala50's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Quote Originally Posted by wako!
    Spoiler:

    Got the cap but according to this his name is John not Jonathan, which means every stargate fansite, wiki and the simpsons is wrong!
    Re what is canon, I think that there's TV series canon and there's movie canon. The TV show uses John J. O'Neill (two 'L's) as seen in the screencap from ENTITY (above). And it's also used in FRAGILE BALANCE. Here's a cap of Jack's ID that his clone is caught carrying:
    Spoiler:

    As for movie canon, the character's name is Jonathan "Jack" O'Neil (one 'L') as stated in the credits.

    (As for John and Jonathan - they're not the same name. However, Jon is often used as a nickname/shortened version of Jonathan).


  19. #19
    The First One Darren's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Thanks for posting a link to this thread.

    I think we've established that "John" may or may not be short for "Jonathan." For the Omnipedia, we have a scale of sources that are regarded as canonical, from most to least authoritative:

    1) On-screen reference
    2) On-screen credits
    3) Script pages
    4) Closed captions

    Only on-screen (discluding credits) is strictly considered canon (following the Star Trek rule). The rest are more or less "secondary canon" that are used to settle disputes and fill in the gaps. If we had an on-screen reference that contradicted a previous script or credit spelling, for example, it would supercede and we'd change the spelling.

    Captioning in television is usually done by a third-party company, based on the episode script. So usually those two match, but where they don't we trust the writer to be correct over the $8.50/hour transcriber.

    There is one very notable exception to this: naquadah seems to be the accepted spelling in fandom and episode scripts, both by fans and the writers. It has several years worth of history behind it, and keeping the U after the Q conforms to common, written English. So we're sticking with it, even though "The Serpent's Lair" includes an on-screen appearance of the word spelled "naqadah."

    So anyway, back to Jack:

    The movie credits are a secondary source that clarify his name is, in fact, short for "Jonathan." (The spelling of his last name is an inconsistency, since clearly the two are meant to be the same character. In that case, the TV series has superceded the movie by establishing a "new canon.") Without a contradictory, on-screen reference to his first name on television, we must assume Jonathan "Jack" O'Neill to minimize the inconsistencies.


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  20. #20
    Major LORD MONK's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Jonathan" O'neill

    Jon = Jonathan

    John = John

    My brothers name is John and every one I know named John is John. So John is John and someone needs to ask what the hell or it will never be straightend out. So ask the mods and see what they say. Is it a goof or is there a different name intirely. Like the 'L'.
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