Endgame (810)

[michelleb]

I pretty much enjoyed this. So, okay, it didn't seem to be a heist episode at all, which is a shame, as I'd have loved one of those..but it was fun. Loved Daniel winding up Walter (you went for coffee!) and Daniel pointing out where he got the crazy ideas from. Jack was hardly in it, and it was obvious his scenes were all filmed the same day, or over two days..at least swap where Daniel and Sam are sitting so it's not so obvious! Loved how sam really can beat up a bloke with both hands tied behind her back..but why does the only english guy we've seen who isn't a gou'ald have to be a whimpering idiotic sell-out? Why did sam guide them away from that particular planet? and come to that, why didn't sam try the wrist device..the fact she has naquadah in her blood seems to be pretty much forgotten.

actually, jack didn't come off too well..when the commander of the prometheus questioned his order, he should have asserted his authority, not stood there staring into the distance, practically begging the commander 'just give him a moment, ok'

so, all in all, not the episode i was expecting, but not bad. pretty funny, enjoyed watching it (for a moment i thought we would get this great cliff hanger with teal'c, daniel and sam stranded half way across the galaxy, and jack left behind, wondering if he should have given Prometheus the order to shoot..but it was not to be). great use of humour, daniel's character has really grown, and i like it, great use of walter, Trust villain boring, but dead, so that's ok, teal'c's entrance really cool.

i forgot to add..really really good to see a stakeout and a raid that didn't involve pete interfering in some way!

[Dani347]

Civilian clothes that were eye catching and stood out.

Is it so gosh dangit (staying pg here) difficult to disagree with someone without implying that they shouldn't be able to voice their opinion? "Stop complaining" "get over it" Please. Did the world explode because some people had problems with the episode? Did it make you suddenly stop liking the episode? Did AT's hair fall out the minute someone criticized what Sam wore? Did MS grow a wart on his nose? Does life as we know it cease to exist? No? Then, what is your (and this goes for anyone who basically says, "I don't like what you said, so shut up) problem?

[Mio]

I'm glad that the Prometheus now has Asgard transporter technology.

Even if we have a difficult time using it.

[AlphaBlu]

Is it so gosh dangit (staying pg here) difficult to disagree with someone without implying that they shouldn't be able to voice their opinion?

Just because you have a right to voice an opinion doesn't mean that that opinion isn't a stupid one. I'd hate to think that people responsible for idiotic opinions won't be called on them. That's a little too PC for my tates.

Anyway, the problem we have here is not so much in people voicing their opinions, but moreso to do with the fact that people are voicing their opinions as though they were fact.

I've never liked the Unas storyline, and am sure to say this about any episode that relates to that storyline. What I don't say is that "The Unas story line is stupid", I always make sure to include the nice disclaimer of "I think the Unas story..." etc. I voice an opinion as an opinion, not an opinion as fact.

So when someone here says "NID stories suck", this is completely untrue. What they should be saying is that "I think NID stories suck". When someone says "All this earth-based crap is nonsense", what they should be saying is "I think that all this earth-based crap is nonsense." When someone says "It's stupid that Danny was doing in the ineterrorgation", they should be saying "I think that it's stupid that Danny was doing the interrorgation."

And finally when someone says "Carter looked stupid in those clothes", they should understand that she was an air-force officer on a covert operation and therefore was wearing civilian clothing as not to give away her position or rank. She was not a victim of the writers attempting to "sex her up". That's not an opinion folks, that's a fact. Critique the clothes she's wearing by all means, but not the reasons she was wearing them, as those are plainly obvious. And besides, the Tok'ra in it was wearing a far tighter and more revealing outfit, but because it's not Sam the people here don't bat an eyelid. I wonder if they even noticed Tok'ra Spice when she was around.

As for the episode? Well I think that the NID story-line has been, thus far, quite interesting. Desperate Measures, Prometheus and now Endgame rank up there with some of my fav episodes. I think that they are well written and well acted. The only thing that I think was wrong was that Daniel should never, ever be on a covert operation like that. Unlike Carter he's not trained for that sort of thing - he's a civilian consultant to the military with basic weapons training, he is not versed in the ways of storming a building. That's about the only hole I found find in this episode, and that's when I looked.

Atleast, that's what I think.

BYE

[Dani347]

Well, it's your opinion that someone else's opinion is stupid. I think the people who have mentioned Sam's clothing presented their reasons for objecting to it very well. And, although they have every right to think that your opinion is stupid, no one has been so utterly rude and insulting to say it. I don't even know that anyone does think your opinion is stupid, because again, they at least have manners not to say so.

Like I said, if you think Sam's clothing was fine and in keeping with the operation, go ahead and say that to your heart's content. You don't even have to say "I think" because I can tell that it's your opinion. I don't need a disclaimer to spell it out. But, you have no right to tell someone else that they shouldn't voice a contrary opinion, no matter how "stupid" you feel it is.

Good manners. Since when did that become too PC?

[SensesFail062]

I can tell you not to say a contrary opinion if i know yours is wrong...Look at the polls son...its about 68% think that episode was OUTSTANDING...and 1 person voted for bad...and 6 voted for terribble...and about 300 voted for outstanding..so to the contrary of your post...your opinion is a stupid one.

[AlphaBlu]

Ok, now looking specifically at the episode in question rather than trying to convince people that "everyone is entitled to an opinion" doesn't mean "everyone's opinion is valid".

I think it's a compliment to the director and the writer and the DP that I was so enthrawled by the episode that I didn't notice the direction nor the lighting like I usually do. I'm very interested in directing and usually go out of my way to look for fun little things the director has done with the camera, or some nifty trick the DP has done with the lighting (Jim Mernard you are GOD!). This time around I didn't notice it at all. The episode had me right from the start.

I must say howeve that I'm bias towards any episode that involves lots of reoccuring minor characters, and just hearing Pierce mentioned let along seeing him is enough to get me to enjoy an episode. I like it that the writers have chosen to keep the other people at the SGC consistent. We had a lot of Major Pierce in Season 5 and 6, and that switched over to Colonel Reynolds throughout Season 7 and early Season 8. It's good to see that the writers haven't forgotten about good ol' Major Pierce and, more importantly, they've chosen to promote him!

Then there was M'Zel, who I'm glad we got to see again, even if it was for the last time. He was a very strong character in Death Knell and I'm glad that they kept him consistent in this episode. His "I die free!" was very fitting.

Walter was, as usual, fantasitc. "That would be a no." ROFLMAO!

Essentially I like it how the writers have worked out that we like minor characters and, more importantly, we like it when minor characters continue to show up, rather than them just going through the extras pool of Vancouver.

The presence of these characters and the good parts they were given made the epsiode for me. Thankfully, it continued to get better.

The NID guys were just EVIL. Killing MILLIONS of Jaffa in a single episode. That's some heavy stuff, and seeing Teal'c and M'Zel's reaction to it was fantastic. I'm glad they've been stopped, for a time, but the NID storyline just got interesting again!

Jack surprised me in this episode. He was really unable to answer Colonel Pendergast's (it was Pendergast right, on the Prometheus?) calls for orders. And his comment to SG-1 at the end was not so much sarcastic as it was caustic. I hope that wasn't an accident and this gets followed up.

I'm definately watching this episode again, this time with a view to actually paying attention to the directing. The only thing that wasn't good about this episode was that Atlantis this week was better!

I really want a Season 9 now more than ever, but my optimism is at an all-time low of that ever happening. It figures too, just after Stargate has managed to claw its way out of that hole it found itself in during the first half of Season 7, the show ends! AHH! Very frustrating.

BYE

[AlphaBlu]

Good manners. Since when did that become too PC?

You miss my point.

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion" is not the same thing as "Everyone's opinion is equally valid". Not all opinions are valid. Lots of opinions are wrong.

The idea of just letting everyone say what they want and not calling anyone on anything even when they're clearly wrong, that's what's too PC for my taste. If someone is wrong, where's the problem with pointing this out?

Hiding under the banner of "But it's just my opinion!" doesn't work. Everyone has a right to an opinion, this is true, but as I said, not all opinions are valid and not all opinions are correct.

To put it another way, in any argument there are always two sides - someone who's right, and someone who isn't. Think about it.

BYE

[keshou]

Hmm.... Yes, you've got something there. He's not having an good or easy time of this, especially because he's not only making those hard decisions, but he's not there making sure personally that they're working out. If I'd been in his position, I'd have done the same thing - waited it out to see if my friends could find a way. If that makes me compromised, you're prob right. My mom kept saying, 'shoot the ship!', and I said to her, 'but Sam and Daniel are still on board!'. I can't remember her answer, but all I know is that I'd not do well in this position. I wonder what the ramifications of this will be for Jack?

I was kind of with your mom. I kept thinking that they needed to show Jack being able to give that order and he really never did. The ending, with the "tough choice" and then Jack turned and I thought there was a kind of a grim little smile. I wasn't totally sure how to take that but I kind of get the feeling Jack may be wondering if he should be in this position. Will there be ramifications down the road? We'll see.

[AlphaBlu]

I was kind of with your mom. I kept thinking that they needed to show Jack being able to give that order and he really never did. The ending, with the "tough choice" and then Jack turned and I thought there was a kind of a grim little smile. I wasn't totally sure how to take that but I kind of get the feeling Jack may be wondering if he should be in this position. Will there be ramifications down the road? We'll see.

It's kind've inconsistent in a way. Jack has already made the "hard choice" when it comes to Carter. He killed her in Entity (although her consciousness survied, but he couldn't've known that). He's had to make that decision before.

There was something very odd about Jack's actions in this episode, and as I said above, I really hope they weren't an accident caused by directing, acting and editing. I hope they were intentional as it really shifts my opinions of him around and should help to create a very uneasy attitude in future eps.

BYE

[Shivan]

I'm going to be honest- you guys SHOULD stop complaining. It isn't good, and if you are SG:1 fans than you wouldn't complain about every damn episode like it was the end of the world.

It isn't healthy for everyone else on these boards when you are a negative person who cries over the smallest matters. Major Fischer looks for every little bad thing about the episode and calls the episode on it. That pretty much tells me that major Fischer does not like Stargate. If you are going to tear every damn episode to threads why watch the damn show?

You guys seem to forget this is possibly our last season, and all most of you can do is bash the season for the every little hole you can find. Why? To make yourselves feel better? To make people here who actually like the show feel bad and think that the season is horrible? You are influencing people to hate the show.

It's really sad that a Stargate fan nitpicks every little thing they find. You guys are really making the whole experience of season 8 less FUN. As I said before- I can nitpick every damn episode and make it sound like a ****ty episode. It doesn't ONLY work for season 8, and I have seen episodes worse than these season 8 episodes. They are scattered all over the seasons. But none of them are as bad as Major Fischer makes them out to be.

[Jonisa]

Well, I loved this episode.

I couldn't help comparing it to Covenant when I kept looking at the clock during the (seemingly two-hour) scene with Sam and Colson wondering if it would ever end and Colson would stop yammering on. During this episode I glanced at the clock and was surprised to see there were only five minutes left. This ranks (for me), as one of the best of the season so far.

Loved Daniel in it. Just loved him. Believe me, I'm as eager as anyone out there for more episodes about mythology, as those are my favorites, but I didn't have a problem with him doing the interrogation. He's as knowledgeable as anyone else about who the possible gate abducters might have been. They needed him there to tie into the blackmail plot from earlier too. And who's to say he was the only one doing the questioning? He's just the only one we saw.

As far as Daniel going to rescue Sam, yes, in years previously that would have been Jack. But Jack has General Hammond's job now, and General Hammond wouldn't have gone. He'd have stayed on earth to oversee Stargate Command, report to the President and make the tough decisions.

I can see why people might question why it was Daniel, but I can also make allowances for story necessity. Jack had to send somebody. Do I want him to send Daniel, or some more qualified military random SGC guy? I don't care about some random SGC guy.

Also they had no way of knowing that Daniel's Ancient knowledge wouldn't prove useful. Daniel will never be military (I hope!), but over the years he's obviously gained a lot of experience. We've seen it. We don't know what training he's received, but he's a long way from the Daniel we met at the beginning of the series. Yet I thought he was still a little bit of a bumbler, thank goodness. I think he set his zat down when he was working on the computer (probably a military no-no), and managed to get himself zatted from behind.

Loved the scene at the beginning with Walter and the other guy. Loved Daniel's "coffee" joke when talking with the two airman. Loved the whole President exchange. Loved the Jack and Daniel exchange when Daniel was preparing to head up to the ship. Loved Sam and Daniel's look at each other when Daniel sat down beside her. Loved Sam fighting with her hands tied behind her and loved her excellent bluff (or was it a bluff?) about the planet.

Loved Jack's dilemma at the end. Perhaps he's a little too emotionally tied to SG-1? Interesting thought--had it been another team he isn't as close to, would the decision have been as difficult? I'd like to say yes, but I'm not sure.

I'll agree with those who didn't like Sam's leather getup. What on earth were they thinking? What a strange thing to wear. And the NID guys were cardboard villains, but the NID guys are always cardboard villains, seems to me.

This one joins New Order, Lockdown, and Avatar as my favorite episodes of Season 8 so far. Come to think of it, I liked Icon and Sacrifices too, although not as much. Overall I'm really enjoying this season. I'm also liking how close the SG-1 team seems, especially after Season 7, when some of them went episodes hardly saying two words to each other.

I'll add a MHO, just because it seems like a good idea.

[Shivan]

Well I am glad someone else enjoyed this episode! Seems like some of us are going to get more out of season 8!

[Mio]

Well I am glad someone else enjoyed this episode! Seems like some of us are going to get more out of season 8!

Really. The glass is half full.....

[Token]

I enjoyed this episode immensely! Walter is killing me! He definitely needs more screen time! I loved the SciFi and team feel. The episode felt more like Stargate. There was nit-picky stuff that felt out of step. IMO, since I have watched Season 1-6, then I could feel the "holes", but for new viewers to Stargate, they might not know any different. Scenes that Jack would have done are now done by Daniel which isn't bad but I was wondering, "Where's Jack?" I could feel the reduction of RDA's schedule and the multiple episode filming in this episode; but I choose to overlook it, and consider this one of the best episodes so far this season.