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Thread: Endgame (810)

  1. #61
    First Lieutenant Livi2Jack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    I liked this ep because it dealt with the serious flaws in Jack, especially as General. The last line about his hesitation will have to be further explored. But Jack's flaws are what make his character so great. He is complex. Just when you get comfortable with the character, there is a twist. RDA played Jack's frustration perfectly. Yes, he was punctuation in places and not the driving force, but there was powerful subtext there.

    As to Daniel doing interrogation, considering the nature of the criminal, well, a soft approach may have been a better approach. Also, we don't see what went on before. Good cop bad cop. Just being stuck down that rat hole of a base with the prospect of being "disappeared" off world would frighten the hell out of me.

    As to the Trust operations, I would have a better preparation if I were going to torch whole worlds of millions of folks. Not just a few guys with a few cans of stuff and a finite amount of launchers. So maybe TPTB are showing that the Trust is fallable and eventually will be defeated by its own limitations. It's like IRAQ, no endgame after you defeat a bunch of system lords, there are still others...Anubis is still running loose and one bad bad guy is not preferable to a whole bunch competing against each other.

    And I thought O'Neill's last comment also indicated his ambivalence to free Jaffa. I mean, if they do ever get free, then what? They go running around the galaxy conquering other folks cuz that's what they do?
    Causality should not be taken lightly.

  2. #62
    Chief Master Sergeant Ramne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Just got home and watched it on tape... All I got to say is...

    GREAT FREAKIN' EPISODE! Most pumped up I have been all season, I loved it!
    O'Neill: "Well, we'll just have to cross that bridge when we come to it."
    Bra'tac: "No, the bridge is too well guarded."

  3. #63
    First Lieutenant Shivan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    When you guys start LOOKING for the faults, you find too many and then you have other people try to rationalize those faults and can never succeed.

    Endgame was a decent episode, and if you want to complain about holes than you can do so in almost every damn episode of Stargate. Sure there are questions unanswered but Endgame still had a whole lot going for it. It is the first episode where we actually see the team moving and doing something more than just sitting around. We see Jack O'Neil struggling with his decision to shoot the ship because of his feelings for the team.

    We see him say "Tough Decision" at the end. That shows us that he is soon going to step down from command. He is comprimised if he stays as a general.

    I felt this episode got me back in the characters of Amanda and Daniel as well. They showed more and last week's episode gave us a lot of Teal'c and some Bray'tac as well!

    You guys are really being too picky here, REALLY. You are making season 8 WORSE than it is by nitpicking every damn episode to shreads.

    Endgame had story, it did have action, and it did have a flare of what we once had back in the early days.

    So stop complaining. This week and last week's episodes for SG:1 have both come up from the ones before. We can start looking at the positives instead of the negatives. Because the episodes are BETTER.

    Thank YOU!
    Last edited by Shivan; September 18th, 2004 at 12:29 AM.

  4. #64
    Captain sacme's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Quote Originally Posted by vikingjedi
    I thought this was a good episode. If Teal'c can have hair and an apartment, then Sam can dress sexy
    But Teal'c having hair and an apartment has nothing to do with his performance as a soldier and being part of a team. Why was Sam dressed differently than everyone else and wearing tight clothing that would restrict her movements? It just seemed silly, IMO, that she should stand out like that.
    Last edited by sacme; September 18th, 2004 at 12:15 AM.

  5. #65
    Captain sacme's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shivan
    When you guys start LOOKING for the faults, you find too many and then you have other people try to rationalize those faults and can never succeed.

    Endgame was a decent episode, and if you want to complain about holes than you can do so in almost every damn episode of Stargate. Sure there are questions unanswered but Endgame still had a whole lot going for it. It is the first episode where we actually see the team moving and doing something more than just sitting around. We see Jack O'Neil struggling with his decision to shoot the ship because of his feelings for the time.

    We see him say "Tough Decision" at the end. That shows us that he is soon going to step down from command. He is comprimised if he stays as a general.

    I felt this episode got me back in the characters of Amanda and Daniel as well. They showed more and last week's episode gave us a lot of Teal'c and some Bray'tac as well!

    You guys are really being too picky here, REALLY. You are making season 8 WORSE than it is by nitpicking every damn episode to shreads.

    Endgame had story, it did have action, and it did have a flare of what we once had back in the early days.

    So stop complaining. This week and last week's episodes for SG:1 have both come up from the ones before. We can start looking at the positives instead of the negatives. Because the episodes are BETTER.

    Thank YOU!
    Sorry, I thought this was the thread where we talked about the episode.

  6. #66
    First Lieutenant Hyperspace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    I think it was an enjoyable ep, although it did show Col O'Neill's shortcomings to some degree, and it does rely a bit much on the 'rogue' this and that factor, but I liked how it advanced the story of the Earth vs. Goa'uld War, and also showed new angles of Stargate and Co.

    Some thoughts...

    1) Who was the Tokra chick? I missed the 5 min. or so at the midpoint of the ep, did they ever say what her mission was? Too bad she died, but I guess she's showin' up on Andromeda? (evidently Sci-Fi loves her, I remember her from Invisible Man)

    2) Is the guy in charge of the Alpha Site...kinda young? He also seemed kinda stiff.

    3) How many Jaffa were killed in this episode? Millions? And what is that remaining Trust lady going to do?

  7. #67
    General majorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shivan

    We see him say "Tough Decision" at the end. That shows us that he is soon going to step down from command. He is comprimised if he stays as a general.
    Hmm.... Yes, you've got something there. He's not having an good or easy time of this, especially because he's not only making those hard decisions, but he's not there making sure personally that they're working out. If I'd been in his position, I'd have done the same thing - waited it out to see if my friends could find a way. If that makes me compromised, you're prob right. My mom kept saying, 'shoot the ship!', and I said to her, 'but Sam and Daniel are still on board!'. I can't remember her answer, but all I know is that I'd not do well in this position. I wonder what the ramifications of this will be for Jack? *retire and be with Sam! *

    Sally
    sally


  8. #68
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    /me wanders disconsolately into the thread and bursts into tears, having spent a completely frustrating morning unable to find a single dl file that isn't corrupted and unwatchable.

    /me (having zip willpower and unable to resist) succumbs to reading all the comments in the thread so far and bursts into tears again, now even more frustrated and impatient to watch said episode.

    Right. That was it. All I wanted to say.

    Except.... $$"$"$"$%$%$%^R^%^% downloads!

    Will be back later to give a proper opinion when I finally get to watch it! (Probably the middle of the damn week now, knowing my luck.)

    Albion
    Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

    Richard Dean Anderson

  9. #69

    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    *retire and be with Sam! *
    I think thats the ending most would want to see. I know I would.

  10. #70
    Second Lieutenant jyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    In general I too liked this episode. It satisfied those "non-earthers" who prefer the episodes to have some part off-world. It also had something to do with the Trust and the Goa'uld. However I too have some quibbles, and it's not in the spirit of tearing down the episode. But if any of TPTB read these posts, it can certainly give them the general mood of us viewers and serve as a springboard for future ideas.

    First, Carter & Daniel took part in two "raids" on earth. I do question Daniel's being there for this type of mission.... he's non-military, and not weapons-trained (other than 'on-the-job' training). Why would he be there? My first real quibble is: WHY DID NEITHER DANIEL NOR CARTER WEAR BULLET-PROOF VESTS? On **neither** mission!! The swat guys wore them, but not SG-1.

    Secondly, I too have to complain (LOUDLY) about Carter's shiny pseudo leather jacket. Again, no protective gear, and secondly a totally inappropriate-to-the-occasion and useless article of clothing. (From the TV teaser commercials, it looked like one of those catsuits I hate so much.) She was smart enough to be there to catch the bad guy when he jumped off the roof (I KNEW she would), but not smart enough to be clothed properly. (Her outfit on the first raid was much better, but again should have been wearing a vest.)

    I agree w/ whoever said the "Trust" people seemed cardboard. I also thought they seemed rather low-level. If the black guy was sort-of in charge, why was he on earth in a position to be so easily caught? The 'commander' usually stays behind to direct operations, not goes putting himself in danger. Only 3 people on that ship? Did we see them reporting to anyone? That ep didn't further my knowledge of who the Trust are (is?) at all, just told me they're cleverer than SG-1.

    ALso, I hated Jack's hesitation in making the big decision. I know he cares about his team, but he's a military officer and he's been in tough situations before and I really don't think he would have hesitated so long to make that decision. Yes, I know, it was all part of the plot, but it really seemed out-of-character.

    And lastly, I thought it ended rather abruptly and anti-climatically. I think they would have (and should have) tried to take over the ship. Why didn't they? It would have been a good half-season-ender to have them go off in search of the remaining Trust people/person and go into hyper-drive.

    Here's a question I've thought odd every time the Prometheus is in an episode: Has anyone noticed that Air Force personnel are manning a "ship" much the way the Navy does? I'm not a military person but I do know that air force "vehicles" are usually small planes with very limited personnel. It's the Navy that has a captain who sits on the bridge and directs the navigator and weapons officer, etc. And yet here the AF is doing it. I heard a long time ago that in creating Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry purposely based the Enterprise crew on the makeup of a naval ship, which is why all the Trek people are based on naval ranks, including Admirals. He probably did it because the Navy does have the big ships with large complements of people. Which is why it seems odd to have the AFrunning the Prometheus. Oh well, just my silly wonderings.





  11. #71
    Lieutenant Colonel Major Fischer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shivan
    When you guys start LOOKING for the faults, you find too many and then you have other people try to rationalize those faults and can never succeed.
    Well, it is an episode discussion thread and I did LOATH the episode, so looking for faults to figure out why seems pretty logical given that. Please don't ever tell me how I should think or post.

    It is right to demand that action have suspense. Especially when the episode is billed as 'the greatest heist in human history.' It is right to demand that villians have depth to them. Especially when they are earth based villins. It is right to demand that the actors give a damn about what they are doing (RDA has looked like he was sleep walking through his part for most of the epiosdes this season, that's not anyone's problem but his). It is right to demand that the wardrob department dress characters appropriately.

    'highly decorated air force officers' do not dress on operations the way they dressed Carter in this episode. If she had gone missing from her house, or off duty I wouldn't complain. But she was on a mission.



  12. #72
    Lieutenant Colonel Dani347's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shivan
    So stop complaining. This week and last week's episodes for SG:1 have both come up from the ones before. We can start looking at the positives instead of the negatives. Because the episodes are BETTER.

    Thank YOU!
    Excuse me, what right or authority do you have to tell anyone what they should or should not say about an episode? People have a right to post whatever they want. It's your opinion that the episode was good. It's not a fact, and the opinion that the episode is bad is just as valid.

    And, for the record, I happened to like this episode. I don't think it was the greatest, but I thought it was pretty decent. But, I'm tired of people lording over others because they *shudder, and heaven's to Betsy* happen to have an opinion they disagree with.

    And, I honestly don't see what the big deal is with Daniel interrogating people. It doesn't seem to be something that requires any especial military skill. Jack must have appointed him to be the person to do the job. I would think he has a very high civilian rank (no need for Walter and friend to call him "sir" if he didn't have some authority. Dr. Jackson would have sufficed for mere politeness). It's not like he was doing some astrophysical feat that he would have no skills for. There's no reason why Jack wouldn't feel that he was capable, and give him that duty now.
    Last edited by Dani347; September 18th, 2004 at 04:06 AM.
    I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

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  13. #73
    Chief Master Sergeant jburrows's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Well like to make a comment on Jack indesision to order an attack on the alkesh. Well besides worring about Sam and Daniel being aboard it Jack knew the stargate was aboard. The prometheus could not guarrentee that alkesh would just be disabled. If the alkesh was destroyed it could damage or destroy the stargate. The only way if the stargate was destroyed to have prometheus go to another planet which earth defenses would drasticly be reduced until prometheus got back.

  14. #74
    Second Lieutenant AlphaBlu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Fischer
    'highly decorated air force officers' do not dress on operations the way they dressed Carter in this episode.
    She was on a covert operation and was wearing civilian clothes. Get over it already.

    BYE
    "Your Star burns! I require frozen treats!" - Tycho Brahe

    "I don't like even!" - Acastus Kolya, 1X10 'The Storm'

  15. #75
    Chief Master Sergeant Gategirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    I liked this one very much! I don't have a problem with Sam's outfit, Jack's indecision, or Daniel's interrogation.

    What interests me is the possiblities that have opened up. I guess I missed the first episode about the symbiote poison, but now they have a weapon to REALLY fight the snakes....as seen in a previous ep. they have a weapon to get the replicators....and now they have a formidable ship with beam technology (however limited)!!!

    It's almost scary to me! It seems to me that what has always been so wonderful about SG1 is their ability to always fight and prevail when fighting with such limited technology and using their wit to outsmart the more advanced races. So, about that 9th season?....it would truely be a whole new world!!! And this episode, IMO, was the beginning of this new world! Oh, the possiblities......

  16. #76
    Lieutenant Colonel michelleb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    I pretty much enjoyed this. So, okay, it didn't seem to be a heist episode at all, which is a shame, as I'd have loved one of those..but it was fun. Loved Daniel winding up Walter (you went for coffee!) and Daniel pointing out where he got the crazy ideas from. Jack was hardly in it, and it was obvious his scenes were all filmed the same day, or over two days..at least swap where Daniel and Sam are sitting so it's not so obvious! Loved how sam really can beat up a bloke with both hands tied behind her back..but why does the only english guy we've seen who isn't a gou'ald have to be a whimpering idiotic sell-out? Why did sam guide them away from that particular planet? and come to that, why didn't sam try the wrist device..the fact she has naquadah in her blood seems to be pretty much forgotten.

    actually, jack didn't come off too well..when the commander of the prometheus questioned his order, he should have asserted his authority, not stood there staring into the distance, practically begging the commander 'just give him a moment, ok'

    so, all in all, not the episode i was expecting, but not bad. pretty funny, enjoyed watching it (for a moment i thought we would get this great cliff hanger with teal'c, daniel and sam stranded half way across the galaxy, and jack left behind, wondering if he should have given Prometheus the order to shoot..but it was not to be). great use of humour, daniel's character has really grown, and i like it, great use of walter, Trust villain boring, but dead, so that's ok, teal'c's entrance really cool.

    i forgot to add..really really good to see a stakeout and a raid that didn't involve pete interfering in some way!
    Last edited by michelleb; September 18th, 2004 at 05:23 AM.

  17. #77
    Lieutenant Colonel Dani347's Avatar
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    Angry Re: Endgame (810)

    Civilian clothes that were eye catching and stood out.

    Is it so gosh dangit (staying pg here) difficult to disagree with someone without implying that they shouldn't be able to voice their opinion? "Stop complaining" "get over it" Please. Did the world explode because some people had problems with the episode? Did it make you suddenly stop liking the episode? Did AT's hair fall out the minute someone criticized what Sam wore? Did MS grow a wart on his nose? Does life as we know it cease to exist? No? Then, what is your (and this goes for anyone who basically says, "I don't like what you said, so shut up) problem?
    I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

    Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

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  18. #78
    Major Mio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Quote Originally Posted by gate traveler
    I'm glad that the Prometheus now has Asgard transporter technology.
    Even if we have a difficult time using it.

  19. #79
    Second Lieutenant AlphaBlu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani347
    Is it so gosh dangit (staying pg here) difficult to disagree with someone without implying that they shouldn't be able to voice their opinion?
    Just because you have a right to voice an opinion doesn't mean that that opinion isn't a stupid one. I'd hate to think that people responsible for idiotic opinions won't be called on them. That's a little too PC for my tates.

    Anyway, the problem we have here is not so much in people voicing their opinions, but moreso to do with the fact that people are voicing their opinions as though they were fact.

    I've never liked the Unas storyline, and am sure to say this about any episode that relates to that storyline. What I don't say is that "The Unas story line is stupid", I always make sure to include the nice disclaimer of "I think the Unas story..." etc. I voice an opinion as an opinion, not an opinion as fact.

    So when someone here says "NID stories suck", this is completely untrue. What they should be saying is that "I think NID stories suck". When someone says "All this earth-based crap is nonsense", what they should be saying is "I think that all this earth-based crap is nonsense." When someone says "It's stupid that Danny was doing in the ineterrorgation", they should be saying "I think that it's stupid that Danny was doing the interrorgation."

    And finally when someone says "Carter looked stupid in those clothes", they should understand that she was an air-force officer on a covert operation and therefore was wearing civilian clothing as not to give away her position or rank. She was not a victim of the writers attempting to "sex her up". That's not an opinion folks, that's a fact. Critique the clothes she's wearing by all means, but not the reasons she was wearing them, as those are plainly obvious. And besides, the Tok'ra in it was wearing a far tighter and more revealing outfit, but because it's not Sam the people here don't bat an eyelid. I wonder if they even noticed Tok'ra Spice when she was around.

    As for the episode? Well I think that the NID story-line has been, thus far, quite interesting. Desperate Measures, Prometheus and now Endgame rank up there with some of my fav episodes. I think that they are well written and well acted. The only thing that I think was wrong was that Daniel should never, ever be on a covert operation like that. Unlike Carter he's not trained for that sort of thing - he's a civilian consultant to the military with basic weapons training, he is not versed in the ways of storming a building. That's about the only hole I found find in this episode, and that's when I looked.

    Atleast, that's what I think.

    BYE
    "Your Star burns! I require frozen treats!" - Tycho Brahe

    "I don't like even!" - Acastus Kolya, 1X10 'The Storm'

  20. #80
    Lieutenant Colonel Dani347's Avatar
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    Default Re: Endgame (810)

    Well, it's your opinion that someone else's opinion is stupid. I think the people who have mentioned Sam's clothing presented their reasons for objecting to it very well. And, although they have every right to think that your opinion is stupid, no one has been so utterly rude and insulting to say it. I don't even know that anyone does think your opinion is stupid, because again, they at least have manners not to say so.

    Like I said, if you think Sam's clothing was fine and in keeping with the operation, go ahead and say that to your heart's content. You don't even have to say "I think" because I can tell that it's your opinion. I don't need a disclaimer to spell it out. But, you have no right to tell someone else that they shouldn't voice a contrary opinion, no matter how "stupid" you feel it is.

    Good manners. Since when did that become too PC?
    I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

    Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

    Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

    Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


    Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

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