Women in Power and Star Trek Voyager

[waywardsage]

Women in power and Star Trek Voyager was an interesting topic brought up in an earlier thread here. I think that Janeway was a luke warm character because she was so hard nosed and didn't show different aspects to her personality. She was a very strong personality who was bull nosed in her command. She was the absolute. Nobody challanged her authority. And i think the viewers of Star Trek, (probably majority male) have a problem with absolutist female characters who don't accept any challange to their authority.

I always felt like Janeway actled like a guy. Except when it came to 7 of 9. But even there, the writers could have shown some vulnerabilty in Janeways personlity but they decided not to.

I think a good example of a realistic female leader is Battlestar Galactica's President Laura Rosalin. There is a women with the fate of the human race on her shoulders who sometimes makes emotional decissions, is a strong leader. But we are allowed to see her duck into her office and sob uncontrollably. We are allowed to see the emotional core of the person.

Now, I'm not saying that women alone are emotional. In DS9 Obrien has a very emotional ep when he is put in prison in his mid for 20 years. It's a male thing too.

Any thoughts?

[DigiFluid]

I was rather pleased when I first heard that the new Star Trek captain was to be a woman. Then the show started. Christ, what a waste of time.

You've hit the nail on the head about her bullheadedness though. A good captain listens to input, considers that they might be wrong. Case in point: Captain Picard during briefings. Often he would ask for suggestions from his command staff. Janeway just made decisions willy-nilly and everyone had to play along within that paradigm.

I also completely agree with you regarding the expression of emotion and passions. Picard was a passionate and emotional man. When the Borg were assimilating him, you knew he was fighting it: in spite of the assimilation, a tear trickled out of his eye. We know that it took 5 weeks to refit the Enterprise following the Borg incident, in which time he was undoubtedly conselled intensively (we know this based just on the short on-screen conversation we saw between him and Troi). After fighting with his brother, he broke down in tears over what had happened to him. We saw the mental scars of this incident later, when they brought Hugh aboard, and again in in First Contact. And those are just the Locutus-related events.

Sisko, we saw all the time. Hell, even in the very first episode we saw him have to pulled away from trying to save his dead wife. We saw his personal crusade against Michael Eddington after he was betrayed, we saw him struggle with his role as a religious figure, we saw him struggle with issues of race as Benny Russell.

Janeway...nothing. No emotion, no nothing. Which was really at the heart of what was wrong with voyager: zero character development.

[kmiller1610]

Janeway was a very strong "Mom" type. She put the needs of her "family" above most other considerations. She never let emotions get in the way of what she felt was right. So she denied herself a personal life. Yes, she was inconsistent in her decisions as they relate to Starfleet protocol, but consistent in mothering the development of her crew. Seeing THEM grow, not herself was her chief pleasure. Once in a while, she would try to honor starfleet principles in ways which conflicted with her "family" obligations. I certainly would not want her commanding a battle group (I'd take Ivanova from B5 for that task anyday), but keeping the crew together and getting them home was right in her power swing.

If you think of it, the whole show was about themes and characteristics that are often associated with the female gender: seeking perfection (Borg), keeping the family together (Maki and Human), seeking the growth of "children", forgiving mistakes because you just love em so much you can't stay mad at em for long. And being the strong one that everybody can count on when the family is facing disaster at every turn.

7 of 9 and Torres certainly went through big changes over the run of the show as did The Doctor........

[DigiFluid]

Janeway was a very strong "Mom" type. She put the needs of her "family" above most other considerations. She never let emotions get in the way of what she felt was right. So she denied herself a personal life. Yes, she was inconsistent in her decisions as they relate to Starfleet protocol, but consistent in mothering the development of her crew. Seeing THEM grow, not herself was her chief pleasure. Once in a while, she would try to honor starfleet principles in ways which conflicted with her "family" obligations. I certainly would not want her commanding a battle group (I'd take Ivanova from B5 for that task anyday), but keeping the crew together and getting them home was right in her power swing.

If you think of it, the whole show was about themes and characteristics that are often associated with the female gender: seeking perfection (Borg), keeping the family together (Maki and Human), seeking the growth of "children", forgiving mistakes because you just love em so much you can't stay mad at em for long. And being the strong one that everybody can count on when the family is facing disaster at every turn.

7 of 9 and Torres certainly went through big changes over the run of the show as did The Doctor........

I think you're absolutely right. And that's another problem I had with the show. They put a female captain on as a way of being forward-thinking, and then turn around and represent her as imposing very "traditional" female values onto a crew.

[Smegger56]

I have no problem with woman in power. But janeway was just plain aweful.

With Kirk, a guy that would 'rush in where angels fear to tread' type of guy, very bullnosed, but always repected the opinions of his crew (mainly Spock and McCoy, and even Scotty). Here was a character with flaws. And, because of what he whitnessed with Kodos the executioner at the age of 13/14, you can understand why he's like this. It adds to his character.

Picard. Now, he would always listen to his officers, even accepting there ideas more often than his. And not to mention, like kirk, would let his officers do there jobs. And he displayed amazing emotion.

Sisko. Not his biggest fan, but he had his moments.

Janeway................................. ............................... enough said.

[Giantevilhead]

Janeway was just a crappy character. She was not a good leader. She wasn't a strong leader. Kira was a much better bullheaded strong leader type than Janeway. Kira was humble and honest about her unwavering attitude. Janeway’s just arrogant and spoiled.

[generaloneill]

janeway is the best captain in all of star trek with captain hernandez of the NX-02 columbia and captain archer of the NX-01 being the other best captains i have ever seen in star trek.

[the Fifth Race]

I would rank my favorite "strong women" from Star Trek like this.....

1) Kira Nerys (DS9) .... sexy, smart and a warrior.
2) 7 of 9 (VOY) .... ditto!
3) Guinan (TNG) .... totally unflappable, loved her character.
4) Janeway (VOY) .... blase in the beginning, golden by the end.
5) Jadzia Dax (DS9) .... beautiful and sweet with a bit of an attitude.
6) T'Pol (ENT) .... hated her Vulcan wig but an easy character to admire.
7) Deanna Troi (TNG) .... mmmmm Betazed
8) B'Elanna Torres (VOY) .... not to interesting but a true Klingon at heart.
9) Natasha Yar (TNG) .... she made a great impression in the short time she was on.
10) Ro Laren (TNG) .... wasn't used nearly enough, I love her character!.

Honorable mentions.....Beverly Crusher (TNG), Keiko O'Brien (DS9), Uhuru (TOS), Kai Winn (DS9), Kes (VOY)

[kmiller1610]

I would rank my favorite "strong women" from Star Trek like this.....

Great list.... But I think Janeway is disliked by some because she just wasn't that very marketable combination of sexy, vulnerable, tough and often combative that is more or less the arhcetype Sci Fi female hero. She was stubborn, queen of her roost, protective, irrationally optimistic about her chicks, absolutely in charge to the point of matriarchy. Reminds me of that old Police song...

"The telephone is ringing, is that Janeway on the phone? Why won't she leave me alone! Every girl I go out with becomes Janeway in the end............Mmmmmmother !" For some reason, I like her despite all that....

[DigiFluid]

janeway is the best captain in all of star trek with captain hernandez of the NX-02 columbia and captain archer of the NX-01 being the other best captains i have ever seen in star trek.

How much Star Trek have you watched?

[gooner_diva]

Good list, Fifth Race. Kira is also my favourite Star Trek woman, though I'd put T'Pol second.

10) Ro Laren (TNG) .... wasn't used nearly enough, I love her character!.

Brilliant character. I was so happy to see Michelle Forbes guest starring on BSG.

As for Janeway, I really liked her in the beginning, but as the show went on she became more bitter and vindictive. I guess Equinox Pt. II is when I started to seriously dislike her. I thought the writers were trying too hard to make their Woman In Charge infallible and smarter than everyone else.

[jckfan55]

Great list.... But I think Janeway is disliked by some because she just wasn't that very marketable combination of sexy, vulnerable, tough and often combative that is more or less the arhcetype Sci Fi female hero. She was stubborn, queen of her roost, protective, irrationally optimistic about her chicks, absolutely in charge to the point of matriarchy.

I was with you right up to matriarchy. I don't see Voyager as a matriarchy.

[the Fifth Race]

Good list, Fifth Race. Kira is also my favourite Star Trek woman, though I'd put T'Pol second.

Thanx Gooner, I debated where to put T'Pol, she could have made my top 3 easily, I just didn't care to much for Enterprise. I did start to like Yoshi in that last ENT season.

Brilliant character. I was so happy to see Michelle Forbes guest starring on BSG.

It was nice seeing her on BSG!. Even though they numbered few some of the best TNG episodes invloved Ensign Ro, her relationships with Picard and Riker were deep and quite interesting.

[the Fifth Race]

Great list.... But I think Janeway is disliked by some because she just wasn't that very marketable combination of sexy, vulnerable, tough and often combative that is more or less the arhcetype Sci Fi female hero. She was stubborn, queen of her roost, protective, irrationally optimistic about her chicks, absolutely in charge to the point of matriarchy.

Thanx kmiller

Sure Janeway had her flaws but IMHO she came across as real. She wasn't afraid to show vunerability with Chakotay or Tuvok and she always tried to do the right thing, which turned out to be the wrong thing more than a few times.

I liked seeing "in the future" Admiral Janeway in that series ending II parter of Voyager. She showed some great acting and was great as old lady Janeway.

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

Women in power and Star Trek Voyager was an interesting topic brought up in an earlier thread here. I think that Janeway was a luke warm character because she was so hard nosed and didn't show different aspects to her personality. She was a very strong personality who was bull nosed in her command. She was the absolute. Nobody challanged her authority. And i think the viewers of Star Trek, (probably majority male) have a problem with absolutist female characters who don't accept any challange to their authority.

I always felt like Janeway actled like a guy. Except when it came to 7 of 9. But even there, the writers could have shown some vulnerabilty in Janeways personlity but they decided not to.

I think a good example of a realistic female leader is Battlestar Galactica's President Laura Rosalin. There is a women with the fate of the human race on her shoulders who sometimes makes emotional decissions, is a strong leader. But we are allowed to see her duck into her office and sob uncontrollably. We are allowed to see the emotional core of the person.

Now, I'm not saying that women alone are emotional. In DS9 Obrien has a very emotional ep when he is put in prison in his mid for 20 years. It's a male thing too.

Any thoughts?

Janeway is a Starfleet captain! She has to be strong! And if you've seen a lot of Voyager eps then you'd know that she could and did act like a woman. You know, like emotional and kind and gentle. When she was tough she was more like a firm mother than a man! I personally think she was a great character. I mean, if you want a really emotional girly character then you can have Kes...