Liberalism for Freedom (or not)

[GhostPoet]

I'm in that thinking mode again.

What is it that makes a person want to be rude, uncaring and generally obnoxious towards another person? What makes them see a man on the street without food or money and not feel anything?
What makes a person go out of their way to write hateful messages to someone else on a forum? What makes a person commit abortion? (If you've seen the abortion films of dead baby heads, etc... you'll know what i'm talking about. It truely is full on murder and people who do it sicken me to no amount, of course most that do often are suicidal or extremely depressed for months/years.)

The answer isn't surprising...it isn't deep and thought provoking. It's really quite simple, the reason our society is going down the tubes...why a person would just as soon spit on you then say hi.

It's a liberal society. Now don't get me wrong, I think some liberal ideas are a good thing. But a FULLY liberal society, as we are becoming leads to no good.

Why?

The very basic CORE beliefe of liberalism is "Do what you want and everything is OK as long as it doesn't effect anyone else"
Now lets look at that for a minute...see anything funny about it? (funny in a bad way)
The entire core belief contridicts itself...and anyone knows that a lifestyle with a contridicting CORE (note I only said core, not other beliefs in the lifestyle) belief cannot stand on its own.
How is it contricting? Many of the actions a person takes reflects onto another person around them. If you are angry at someone, they may get angry and return that anger to someone near them. Humans live by the Domino effect.

Liberalism is also very much a selfish way of living. the "I DON'T CARE UNLESS IT EFFECTS ME" mentality leads to a very deep and growing selfishness...that selfishness tends to spread like a plague. Selfishness in a society has been the downfall of MANY a countries/nations. If you don't care anything for your fellow man, then they won't care for you..and the cycle gets worse and worse.

There is also the self-proclaimed "Freedom of speech!! We should be able to say what we want!" from the liberals...there is a problem with that..yes it's fine to have freedom of speech, it's a God given right! But the problem is..a liberal society like today seems to believe that it's ok to speak your mind....just as long as you don't contridict someone elses thoughts...how is that freedom again?
Go ahead and try it sometime..play devils advocate and say an opinion that COMPLETELY disagrees with someone elses as they spew out their thoughts...you'll find quite a bit of hate and intolerance...it's amazing...for a lifestyle that believes in freedom and living the way YOU want...there seems to be a whole lot more intolerance, hate and anger.

We even kill our babies for our own convience. Nothing is sacred to us. Look at the news sometime nowdays and it's not uncommon to see kids killing kids or kids killing parents or parents killing kids. This wasn't such a happening occurance a 30 or 40 years ago. Infact, it was generally unheard of. There is one difference from then and now...families are broken...people get devorced left and right over the smallest of reasons...feeding their own selfish desires. It's been proven already that kids with one parent or a weak father figure often are prone to violence more often than not. (there are always expections to any rule)
So why is all of this happening now? Why does it seem like the world is going to hell in a handbasket? Why do we throw away lives carelessly and so EASILY without our conscience speaking...do we even have one anymore? I'd have to say no...with selfishness in control...the conscience is the first to go. Why does it seem like America...the land of the free...is becoming more like a Nazi state? Freedom to speak as long as you agree...kill your babies before their born because they are inferior...and you are of course superior, you..you...you...it's all about you...your convience is more important than life.
Your actions, tho they may effect others, who cares? Who cares if the rocker (I love metal btw) your 12 year old son is listening to is singing about sex, drugs and killing. It won't effect him..right? (research shows that things we put into our subconscience STAY there..and can eventually effect our daily living with substantial amounts)

Maybe I should start raising my hand to the flag?

[Universal Nexus]

Er, what? I'm sorry, I can't make much sense of what you're saying. Are you saying, "blame liberalism for our society's problems" or what?

...if that is the case, I AM a liberal. Unfortunately, your definition is different from mine -- I define "liberalism" as "do whatever you want so long as it doesn't hurt anybody".

EDIT: I just reread that and would love to know how the human race is going down the tubes. What you've posted about "society falling apart" is eerily similar to what previous generations have said about my generation. That society is going downhill and such.

By the way, I'd actually be a parent any children I had and MONITOR what they listen to -- unlike many parents of the PREVIOUS generation, many of whom don't monitor their children's influences worth crap.

[Metonic]

I agree with you Ghost Poet on many parts of the topic, Liberism is good to a certain degree, but after that degree it starts the path to Anarchy. Dont get me wrong, there are some liberal thigns that i can agree with but not many.

[Universal Nexus]

What is it that makes a person want to be rude, uncaring and generally obnoxious towards another person?

Lack of sleep.

What makes them see a man on the street without food or money and not feel anything?

I dunno, what?

What makes a person go out of their way to write hateful messages to someone else on a forum?

Sadism?

What makes a person commit abortion? (If you've seen the abortion films of dead baby heads, etc... you'll know what i'm talking about. It truely is full on murder and people who do it sicken me to no amount, of course most that do often are suicidal or extremely depressed for months/years.)

Generally, the life of the mother is at stake. By the way, what term of abortion? Fetal stage, embryo stage...?

The answer isn't surprising...it isn't deep and thought provoking. It's really quite simple, the reason our society is going down the tubes...why a person would just as soon spit on you then say hi.

Okay, hold on one moment. Where do you live?

It's a liberal society. Now don't get me wrong, I think some liberal ideas are a good thing. But a FULLY liberal society, as we are becoming leads to no good.

Slow down, buster! How did this get to "liberal"? I can agree that a fully liberal society is bad, but the United States is anything but fully liberal. Go to Europe and you'll really see liberal. The US is conservative.

The very basic CORE beliefe of liberalism is "Do what you want and everything is OK as long as it doesn't effect anyone else"
Now lets look at that for a minute...see anything funny about it? (funny in a bad way)The entire core belief contridicts itself...and anyone knows that a lifestyle with a contridicting CORE (note I only said core, not other beliefs in the lifestyle) belief cannot stand on its own.

Wait, wait, wait. You're talking about libertarianism, not liberalism. They're two different things.

How is it contricting? Many of the actions a person takes reflects onto another person around them. If you are angry at someone, they may get angry and return that anger to someone near them. Humans live by the Domino effect.

Uhhh...right, I get you.

Liberalism is also very much a selfish way of living. the "I DON'T CARE UNLESS IT EFFECTS ME" mentality leads to a very deep and growing selfishness...that selfishness tends to spread like a plague. Selfishness in a society has been the downfall of MANY a countries/nations. If you don't care anything for your fellow man, then they won't care for you..and the cycle gets worse and worse.

I agree. Libertarianism is a very selfish way of living.

There is also the self-proclaimed "Freedom of speech!! We should be able to say what we want!" from the liberals...there is a problem with that..yes it's fine to have freedom of speech, it's a God given right! But the problem is..a liberal society like today seems to believe that it's ok to speak your mind....just as long as you don't contridict someone elses thoughts...how is that freedom again?

Uhhh, what? This is different from libertarianism AND liberalism. The people I see attacking freedom of speech are authoritarians and extremist conservatives, not liberals...

Go ahead and try it sometime..play devils advocate and say an opinion that COMPLETELY disagrees with someone elses as they spew out their thoughts...you'll find quite a bit of hate and intolerance...it's amazing...for a lifestyle that believes in freedom and living the way YOU want...there seems to be a whole lot more intolerance, hate and anger.

Well, I must be in the best area of the US -- and be one of the most tolerant people here, too -- because I can remain civil and not show hate and intolerance to people who disagree with me entirely. I'm an atheist, so I am not a "majority viewpoint", either...

We even kill our babies for our own convience.

Because we all know embryos are humans. I can agree with fetuses [third term], but second and first term...

Nothing is sacred to us. Look at the news sometime nowdays and it's not uncommon to see kids killing kids or kids killing parents or parents killing kids.

Yeah, the parents of my elder generation aren't that great, are they?

This wasn't such a happening occurance a 30 or 40 years ago. Infact, it was generally unheard of.

Of course not. That said, 30 and 40 years ago, we had parents who didn't let the TV babysit their children...

There is one difference from then and now...families are broken...people get devorced left and right over the smallest of reasons...feeding their own selfish desires. It's been proven already that kids with one parent or a weak father figure often are prone to violence more often than not. (there are always expections to any rule)

So, what, ban divorce?

So why is all of this happening now? Why does it seem like the world is going to hell in a handbasket?

Geez, you're so negative! You sound almost like me a few years ago. "We're such a stupid race, we're all going to destroy ourselves"...

Why do we throw away lives carelessly and so EASILY without our conscience speaking...do we even have one anymore? I'd have to say no...with selfishness in control

Selfishness has always been in control, you know? It's just that now the average human can be selfish rather than just the leaders and elite.

...the conscience is the first to go. Why does it seem like America...the land of the free...is becoming more like a Nazi state?

GODWIN'S LAW! The Nazis were an extreme RIGHT group. They were fascists -- and fascism is on the "right" end of the scale. Hitler had the "Socialist" part of the Nazi party killed off so the Nationalist part could take over.

Freedom to speak as long as you agree...kill your babies before their born because they are inferior...and you are of course superior, you..you...you...it's all about you...

......

Where DO you live, anyway? It's not my world...

your convience is more important than life.
Your actions, tho they may effect others, who cares?

You know, I'm beginning to find the redundant. You must live in a bad place. Not every place in the US is like it. Live somewhere else. The Midwest is pretty nice...

Who cares if the rocker (I love metal btw) your 12 year old son is listening to is singing about sex, drugs and killing. It won't effect him..right? (research shows that things we put into our subconscience STAY there..and can eventually effect our daily living with substantial amounts)

What are you talking about? Do you honestly think that's the majority...?

Maybe I should start raising my hand to the flag?

What flag? In Japan, their youngsters watch shows where there is nudity, sometimes sex, dirty jokes, blood, violence, etc. The Japanese aren't exactly violent, you noticed? They aren't liberal, either, they're very conservative. It's not liberalism, or libertarianism. It's something else -- it's laziness, something found on all sides of the spectrum.

[Metonic]

What flag? In Japan, their youngsters watch shows where there is nudity, sometimes sex, dirty jokes, blood, violence, etc. The Japanese aren't exactly violent, you noticed? They aren't liberal, either, they're very conservative. It's not liberalism, or libertarianism. It's something else -- it's laziness, something found on all sides of the spectrum.

lol thats agreed, but If you look at it they are voilent in japan, they are so strict there that if you come within a 500miles of failure, that results in suicide. Atleast thats what i seen in the news in movies, documentaries ect. And I think the reason why they watch dirty cartoons over there is because Pornography use to be banned(im unsuree if it still is) anyway cartoons werent considered it then so they used that, and it helped a father bond with his kids while watching cartoons LOL

[aAnubiSs]

I'm for abortions, no one should be forced to have a child.I think people should adopt more, instead of getting their own children.

I dispise ultra-religious people that say God is the answer to everything. People that say their beliefs are the correct ones makes me wanna kill someone (the one saying it)

Also hate ignorant people, now I don't mean uneducated people, I mean the kind that knows all the facts but still don't have a clue wtf they are doing/talking about.

I think nudity, porn, violence, "bad" language, and all other such stuff should be allowed on all TV-shows all the time. If a parent can't handle their kids seeing such stuff they should see the schools.

I don't believe in forcing children to live by certain rules, IE don't do drugs, don't smoke, don't drink, don't have sex. Teach them what it is all about instead of screaming at them. I've always been allowed to do anything I'd like, and I don't smoke nor do drugs, but I drink sometimes. Safe sex is always nice.

I don't believe in forcing children to get a college-degree. I don't have one and I'm richer then most kids my age (20)

I don't understand all the hate towards homosexuals.

I don't believe in the death penalty, it's just an easy way out, and the convict doesn't have to suffer the rest of their life in jail.

Drinking and driving should always be regarded as attempted homocide or something like that. Should also result in a permanent licence removal.

I believe freedom of speech should regard everything. If someone wants to say jews are bad and negros are punks they should be allowed to, without being afraid of getting sued.

I believe Requiem for a Dream should be shown to all kids in school at age 13 or 14. That would lower the drug use significantly.

I'm sure I could come up with more.

[Torley]

I believe Requiem for a Dream should be shown to all kids in school at age 13 or 14. That would lower the drug use significantly.

LOL, now that's edutainment! And yeah, show the movie Pi too, to warn about the risks of what advanced mathematics and building a cobble-computer out of a miscellany of parts will do to you. Semi-j/k.

But as for:

I believe freedom of speech should regard everything. If someone wants to say jews are bad and negros are punks they should be allowed to, without being afraid of getting sued.

As much as "freedom of speech" is tossed around, I wouldn't want to curb anyone's right to it but I do think more people have to be responsible for what they say that could hurt other humans deliberately. Case in point: message board flaming. Now, this is a private system and I am thankful GateWorld is moderated so well.

What if some nasty folks started coming here and declaring death threats on, well, any one of the cast, and members here. Would you let that continue? Some very demented, deranged people utter threats before taking hostile, violent, and permanent action. It's a precursor, and should be paid attention to by the legal justice system. Defamation of one's character is a very serious thing too which needs to be handled in courts. I don't agree with mass lawsuit insanity, however.

You said it best yourself:

I don't understand all the hate towards homosexuals.

Hate speech is part of this and is dealt with by associations like the GLAAD.

[Capt. Rivet]

I
What is it that makes a person want to be rude, uncaring and generally obnoxious towards another person? What makes them see a man on the street without food or money and not feel anything?
What makes a person go out of their way to write hateful messages to someone else on a forum? What makes a person commit abortion? (If you've seen the abortion films of dead baby heads, etc... you'll know what i'm talking about. It truely is full on murder and people who do it sicken me to no amount, of course most that do often are suicidal or extremely depressed for months/years.)

The answer isn't surprising...it isn't deep and thought provoking. It's really quite simple, the reason our society is going down the tubes...why a person would just as soon spit on you then say hi.

It's a liberal society. Now don't get me wrong, I think some liberal ideas are a good thing. But a FULLY liberal society, as we are becoming leads to no good.

Why?

The very basic CORE beliefe of liberalism is "Do what you want and everything is OK as long as it doesn't effect anyone else"
Now lets look at that for a minute...see anything funny about it? (funny in a bad way)
The entire core belief contridicts itself...and anyone knows that a lifestyle with a contridicting CORE (note I only said core, not other beliefs in the lifestyle) belief cannot stand on its own.
How is it contricting? Many of the actions a person takes reflects onto another person around them. If you are angry at someone, they may get angry and return that anger to someone near them. Humans live by the Domino effect.

Liberalism is also very much a selfish way of living. the "I DON'T CARE UNLESS IT EFFECTS ME" mentality leads to a very deep and growing selfishness...that selfishness tends to spread like a plague. Selfishness in a society has been the downfall of MANY a countries/nations. If you don't care anything for your fellow man, then they won't care for you..and the cycle gets worse and worse.

There is also the self-proclaimed "Freedom of speech!! We should be able to say what we want!" from the liberals...there is a problem with that..yes it's fine to have freedom of speech, it's a God given right! But the problem is..a liberal society like today seems to believe that it's ok to speak your mind....just as long as you don't contridict someone elses thoughts...how is that freedom again?
Go ahead and try it sometime..play devils advocate and say an opinion that COMPLETELY disagrees with someone elses as they spew out their thoughts...you'll find quite a bit of hate and intolerance...it's amazing...for a lifestyle that believes in freedom and living the way YOU want...there seems to be a whole lot more intolerance, hate and anger.

We even kill our babies for our own convience. Nothing is sacred to us. Look at the news sometime nowdays and it's not uncommon to see kids killing kids or kids killing parents or parents killing kids. This wasn't such a happening occurance a 30 or 40 years ago. Infact, it was generally unheard of. There is one difference from then and now...families are broken...people get devorced left and right over the smallest of reasons...feeding their own selfish desires. It's been proven already that kids with one parent or a weak father figure often are prone to violence more often than not. (there are always expections to any rule)
So why is all of this happening now? Why does it seem like the world is going to hell in a handbasket? Why do we throw away lives carelessly and so EASILY without our conscience speaking...do we even have one anymore? I'd have to say no...with selfishness in control...the conscience is the first to go. Why does it seem like America...the land of the free...is becoming more like a Nazi state? Freedom to speak as long as you agree...kill your babies before their born because they are inferior...and you are of course superior, you..you...you...it's all about you...your convience is more important than life.
Your actions, tho they may effect others, who cares? Who cares if the rocker (I love metal btw) your 12 year old son is listening to is singing about sex, drugs and killing. It won't effect him..right? (research shows that things we put into our subconscience STAY there..and can eventually effect our daily living with substantial amounts)

Maybe I should start raising my hand to the flag?

First off, I respect your opinions and your right to live the way you see fit. However, I have my own opinions and beliefs (which you may or may not agree with) and have just as much a right to them as you or anyone else.

I support legal abortions and think that a woman should have the right to one if she deems it neccessary.

regardless of your general opinion of liberals, I don't feel freedom of speech is one-sided. Say what you want... I'll listen, but I don't have to agree with what you're saying. Same goes for you.

Divorce is also a choice in my opinion. My parents are divorced and I am not, nor have I ever been a violent person.

Religion is a deeply personal matter, and as such I don't think any one religion is right for everyone. You've got the right to believe (or not believe) in whatever you want. No one should be looked down upon, insulted or punished for their religous beliefs, nor should they be forced to worship a god they don't believe in.

Music is a form of self expression, and I think censoring it undermines the opinions the artist is trying to convey through it. If you don't want your kids listening to a particular artist or type of music, then don't let them. Alot of the music I've listened to growing up (I'm 17, btw) has had to do with sex, drugs, death, violence and so on... yet I've never bothered to involve myself with any of these things. I'm not saying kids aren't impressionable, but then again it depends on the kid.

[aAnubiSs]

17 and married?=)

[Capt. Rivet]

huh?

[aAnubiSs]

I felt like twisting this sentence:

|| Divorce is also a choice in my opinion. My parents are divorced and I am not ||, nor have I ever been a violent person.

[Capt. Rivet]

I felt like twisting this sentence:

|| Divorce is also a choice in my opinion. My parents are divorced and I am not ||, nor have I ever been a violent person.

man I worded that wrong...

[Pdixie]

Take a look at you're own side of the political spectrum before you criticize mine.

What is it that makes a person want to be rude, uncaring and generally obnoxious towards another person? What makes them see a man on the street without food or money and not feel anything?

It's rather funny that liberals often endorse programs to help people in such a situation, wheras in a conservative system the rich just get richer.

What makes a person go out of their way to write hateful messages to someone else on a forum?

Oh, so now only liberals write hateful messages on a forum?
I'm not even gonna bother with the rest of you're post. Some liberal ideas may be quackery but your side of the spectrum ain't for saints either.

[VirtualCLD]

I don't know exactly where to place myself, I like some liberal ideas and some conservative ideas. It feels like at each presidential election, I'm always choosing the lesser of two evils. I know "deomcracy" is built on compromise, but it's had to get a compromise that will satisfy enough people. I just find it difficult to pick sides sometimes.

[Metonic]

It's rather funny that liberals often endorse programs to help people in such a situation, wheras in a conservative system the rich just get richer.

Thats gotta be the oldest argument in the book of lies, of course at one point it was true but if u look at it now, Republicans and Conservatives have adapted some minor liberal and Democrats ideas, and thats the helping people in sitiautions like living on the street type thing, I have actually seen more reports of republicans and conservatives helping people moreso than democrats and liberals, im not saying they dont but i am saying that I have seen Republicans do it more. For example, my mother is a Foster parent, she is a republican, the two other foster hoems in my neighbor hood are also republican. One of my brothers friends Dad's a Democrat and he spit on this homeless guy after my brother and his friend gave him change. One of my uncle laughs at poor people he sees on tv, he is also democrat. Im not saying all republicans are generous and all Democrats arent, im just saying it doesnt matter what political party your in, it doesnt effect whether or not your generous.

Also why is it that the rich get richer under the republican system is the only part you say, traditionally it is the poor get poorer, yet the way ive been seeing it is the Rich get richer and the poor get richer aswell. Only the people who work hard actually get rich, and the ones that dont work hard either got lucky or their parents worked hard.