Choosy viewers unite! Pro character and logical story development thread

[NG.1]

Choosy viewers unite!

This thread is due to the one that was a letter directed to the TPTB and many others.

Tired of big space battles all the time?

Tired of easy answers to what should be complicated situations?

Tired of repeated storylines?

Tired of alien cultures that look and act the same as Earth people?

Tired of alien cultures that are two dimensional?

Tired of characters that are two dimensional?

Tired of storylines that make absolutely no sense scientific and biological wise?

Tired of being tired,

Then this thread is for you.

Discuss character development - what was done correctly and what was done not at all.

Discuss storyline development - what was done brilliantly and what was done...wait a moment! Was non-existing!

Discuss biological and scientific explanations that was given in Stargate - did it made sense or did it made you cringe because you knew for a fact that it was impossible.

This is a thread to discuss all your concern regarding these issues for both the series.

If you are anti character and storyline development and couldn't give a honky dory about whether stuff makes sense or not...THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR YOU!

Go and start an anti thread for it. After all some people (cough cough pointing a finger at myself) are very good at it,

[Vyse]

I like the thread! As I have stated before the big thing that bugs me is all the fancy ships Earth has now. The whole concept of the show was ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances, now It's just space battles. Also, character development is weak, and the characters have no personal reason to fight the Oreos.

[Naonak]

the characters have no personal reason to fight the Oreos.

Other than the complete destruction of Earth and anybody who won't worship them.

I think Mitchell was developed reasonably well, even though most of it was in Collateral Damage and Stronghold, and although I am enjoying the Ori storyline, it was damaged by the fact that they decided to rush it for fear of being cancelled before they could finish it.

[Vyse]

Other than the complete destruction of Earth and anybody who won't worship them.

I think Mitchell was developed reasonably well, even though most of it was in Collateral Damage and Stronghold, and although I am enjoying the Ori storyline, it was damaged by the fact that they decided to rush it for fear of being cancelled before they could finish it.

I mean a small personal story. When the series started Jack was looking for Skaa'ra, Daniel was looking for Sha're, and Teal'c wanted to free his people. Sam always got the short end of the stick in this department, her only true ark is still Jolinar/ the Tok'ra.

Mitchell acts too recklessly to be that high of an officer. If Jack was around when Cam went all Rambo in Stronghold he would have had his head on a platter.

[sueKay]

I like this thread

I could rant on for sometime...but I think I'll save it for my livejournal

[Wraith Scientist]

Discuss biological and scientific explanations that was given in Stargate - did it made sense or did it made you cringe because you knew for a fact that it was impossible.

Generally, science is done very well in Stargate, but here's some of the science that was done less well:

Ascension
- It's used as a Deus Ex Machina
- How can you 'learn' to ascend - how on Earth can a human, even with enhanced brain powers, suddenly make themselves energy?!

Advanced humans, psychic powers and hok'taurs
- How can you use your brain to manipulate energy and throw people through the air, and stop bullets?! Where is all the energy coming from?! How on Earth is the brain supposed do that?!

Asgard transporters
- They are used as Deus Ex Machina far too often
- If they can beam anything why not beam away large sections of enemy ships?! Beam enemies into space. Beam pilots out of aircraft. Beam enemy ship's reactors into their bridge and fry everyone, or beam their reactor shielding away. They beamed a tower into space didn't they? If you can turn matter into energy then why can't you beam stuff/enemies directly into your batteries as fuel?!

Ori technology
- How did the Ori manage to get simple villagers to build those massive, high-tech ships in such a short period of time?! Where did all the metal come from to build them? How did the villagers make the integrated circuitry and 'fiddly bits' of the ships? How did the villagers weld the metal together?

******************

Another thing. How about bad guys that have a little more motivation that "I believe that I'm a God - worship me or die" and "I'm so evil, Mwahahahaha". Enemies should have more justification for their actions than just wanting more power and being evil for the sake of it.

This is from another thread. I thought it summed up the issue nicely:

I love the wraith as an enemy--they are truly implacable, and their motivation is great--I was getting tired of the Gua'ould as the cliché, power-hungry villians out for galactic domination. I love that for the wraith, the issue is one of survival, and it's the Ancients who are in the wrong for being arrogant enough to put the survival of one species above another. Sure, the wraith take pleasure in killing/feeding, and it's not like they're just misunderstood--they don't want to change, or find another way, and they genuinely seem to believe themselves to be superior beings who deserve their food, no matter what the cost to anybody else. They aren't entirely selfish creatures, though, unlike the Gua'ould. They seem to actually have some loyalty to each other, at least within each hive. When Michael's hive found him, for example, I got the sense that he was being welcomed back into the fold, welcomed home. Of course we don't know much yet about the wraith social structure, but I hope this will be substantiated and developed in further episodes. One-dimensional villains are always boring. Which is why I hope that the Ori actually aren't lying about the whole ascension thing, and aren't in it just for domination, but genuinely believe that they are helping their followers discover the path to enlightenment. Not that I want the Ancients to be evil, either, just for them to have a legitimately different perspective--ie.., that enlightenment is for everyone to find or not on their own, and that it's not worth killing people over.

Go here for the original

[Naonak]

- If they can beam anything why not beam away large sections of enemy ships?! Beam enemies into space. Beam pilots out of aircraft. Beam enemy ship's reactors into their bridge and fry everyone, or beam their reactor shielding away. They beamed a tower into space didn't they? If you can turn matter into energy then why can't you beam stuff/enemies directly into your batteries as fuel?!

Shields block transporters. Shouldn't you know that by now?

And Vyse - fair enough.

[indaeo]

I was ready to see the whole Goa'uld storyline end, just because eight seasons is a long time for them to not be able to defeat their biggest foe. I like that they've kept someone like Ba'al around, because it would make sense that a few would be leftover and trying to rebuild. He's got history with all of them and he's just fun!

In my opinion, the Ori are lacking the very thing I enjoyed the most about the Goa'uld. I need a villain with personality, someone who can have some kind of personal and psychological effect on my heroes just as easily as they can act as a huge threat to all of mankind. The Goa'ulds didn't have just one, but nearly a dozen recurring characters that each had some kind of relationship with SG-1, and it worked.

Spoiler:

I'm hoping that by putting a more personal face on the Ori with Adria, that they'll be moving more in that direction in S10.

It could go a long way in improving the series as a whole, because it could shift things back to a more personal nature rather than just big explosions and space battles. I love those things too, but I fell in love with the show because of the characters and their personal journeys being discovered during the course of their explorations, not because of the special effects and big battles.

[Syera]

Well, lessa-see. I had a dream that John Sheppard was transforming into a reptillian humanoid. IT WAS THE TRANSFORMATION OF MY DREAMS! Annnnnnnd why?

-The transformation wasn't making John act out-of-character in any way. He was upset about it, to be sure, but he was still acting like John Sheppard.

-According to a doctor, the transformation would take six months to complete. (Which sounds so much more reasonable than turning into a were-iratus in a few days.)

-John's hair was starting to fall out and he was growing a ridge over his head. Not an annoyingly big one. His skin was turning especially pale; quite likely changing texture as well. Cool effects.

-He wasn't growing any noticable extra limbs, having his teeth become pointed for no reason, or having his fingers fuse in that most nonsensical manner.

The sci-fi transformation of my dreams; literally and figuratively.

And on the subject of names - there are so many ways to easily and almost instantly generate new ones. JavaScript generators come to mind; but with nothing more than a formula, a pencil, and a paper, you can come up with some amazing results that sound quite alien. Name-generating formulas are both easy to create and use; you just need a little imagination. (Though I suspect that TPTB are running short on this.)

Creating new cultures can be harder, but it's not impossible. A lot of people have written down questionnaires to help you develop your cultures - this one, for example.

One thing I'd like to see are some clothing styles that are different from what are and have been worn on Earth, yet still make sense given the climate. This may seem like a daunting task, but if you start out thinking about what a race should wear to protect themselves from the elements, what materials they have available and/or would use, and what their level of technology is, it becomes a lot easier.

[Ouroboros]

I don't really have the time tonight but I've got quite a bit to contribute here.

[NG.1]

Wow! People are actually responding to my thread,

Thanks guys.

As for the things that kinda irritated the hell out of me:

ATLANTIS

1. How can you de-evolve a species to human format as in Atlantis? Maybe if it was some sort of highly advance alien race you could overlook this matter, but the fact that it is Earth with their current level of technology doesn't make sense. This is actually the episode that was the final nail in the coffin for me - made me stop watching the story altogether.

2. How come the Atlantis teams chat away on enemy planets for the whole world to hear them?? Doesn't silence count anymore?

3. How come McKay is all of a sudden a linguist, scientist and a whole lot more? I thought he was like Sam a specialist in their own specific field?
Even if McKay is so smart...he admitted in his own words that Sam is smarter than him so how come Sam need Daniel's books when translating something??

4. Where's the bad guys, the bullies, the people with their own agenda in Atlantis? Surely not everybody can be goody two shoes?

5. It was estalished in episode one that the Atlantis team had just 30/38? minutes to get through the gate to Atlantis before the wormhole collapsed. If that is the case how come they took gim equipment with them? Surely that time would have been spent carry more weapons, medicine, food etc.?

6. What is the culture of the Wrath? What does their leadership consists off? How do they feel about dying, love, hatred, children etc. etc.

7. If Teyla has that Wrath DNA in her, how come she almost immediately discovered how to view their ships remotely? Surely then she must have had an "accident" before or something similar to tell her something weird was going on in her system?

8. If Teyla is a warrior I am Bill Clinton. Sorry, she just doesn't convince me.

9. How come McKay gets to guard civilians why the rest of his team scurries off into the unknown?

10. Why was the rest of the city in Atlantis never explored? Surely that should have been a sort off a priority to make sure no nasties were waiting for them in the dark?

Okay...just a few things that kinda bothered me over the ages.

[NG.1]

Things that irritated me in:

Stargate - SG-1

None, nothing, SG-1 was perfect...oh wait...there are actually a few things I could mention:

1. How come Sam was not punished or at least a warning put in her file after the incident with replicator Sam? If Jack was covering for her and calling in favors it would have been nice to actually be told that.

2. Sam couldn't tell her dying father about the SG-1 project, but she could tell Pete about it?! Huh? Even though he saw Mrs Glowing Eyes in that one episode surely Sam would have spinned him a story instead. After all if they were to break up in a bad way he could decide to go and tell the whole world the big secret.

3. Sam was adamanent in the episode 1969 that they couldn't change anything in the past because of the unforseen influence it may have on the future. Then why was she such a supporter of the incident in Moebius? After all for all she knew they could have killed Teal'c or Bratac's ancestors while they were in the past.

4. I find it kinda difficult to accept that Sam would give up a command position at Area 51 to come back to her former team and stand/take instructions from Cameron. After all that is a career killer for any soldier. I would have rather seen her get back in an advisory position at Cheyenne Mountain. Have her report directly to the General and go out with any team as required.

5. They would never put two Leitenant-Colonel's (spelling?) in the same team. It doesn't happen. Look at the Irac war and how the LC's and Colonel's operate there.

6. I haven't seen Season 9 yet, but read the transcripts. Cameron was a pilot, right? But did he have any actual field experience before joining SG-1? Even if he was such a big hero I just can't see them giving him SG-1 until he gets further experience. Maybe one of the other teams, but SG-1? The team that is supposed to be the flagship team of the Stargate Project?

7. I don't have anything against Sam and Pete (even though I am a Sam/Jack fan), but if you want to bring in a love interest for a character don't just let them show up the one day (episode) and all of a sudden viewers are expected to believe they had something going on for some time? That is cheap! At least let the relationship grow over a couple of episodes to be convincing.

8. Who is Jack's father, mother, sister/s, brother/s??

9. I am dying to know (not) how they are going to make Vala a permament character (maybe a team member) in season 10.

10. Furlings oh Furlings...wherefore are thou Furlings.

Hehe, okay enough for now. Don't want to be accused of being a stalker/flamer etc. etc. etc.

[Konman72]

Tired of easy answers to what should be complicated situations?

Tired of repeated storylines?

Tired of alien cultures that look and act the same as Earth people?

Tired of alien cultures that are two dimensional?

Tired of characters that are two dimensional?

Tired of storylines that make absolutely no sense scientific and biological wise?

So....you've never liked Stargate have you? Seriously, those were all present pre-season 7 or whatever season it is that you feel the series went ary. Trust me, I've been watching the series again over the last few weeks and am only up to season 6 and have already seen all of these.

EDIT: Oh, and don;t take this to mean that I don't accept a little constructive criticism. Many of these are bad things for the show to do, but you are using them in a context of "they are happening now when they didn't before....CHANGE BACK!" and that is just wrong imo.

[NG.1]

So....you've never liked Stargate have you? Seriously, those were all present pre-season 7 or whatever season it is that you feel the series went ary. Trust me, I've been watching the series again over the last few weeks and am only up to season 6 and have already seen all of these.

EDIT: Oh, and don;t take this to mean that I don't accept a little constructive criticism. Many of these are bad things for the show to do, but you are using them in a context of "they are happening now when they didn't before....CHANGE BACK!" and that is just wrong imo.

Hmmm...let me put it to you in a way you'll understand.

Atlantis - tried to give it a change - hate it - illogical.

SG-1 - tried to give it a change - loved it - concern about latest developments.

Better now?

As for critism - I was one of the first people here in the board that spoke out against unnecessary critism and even tried to create a anti-critism thread for which I was given red rep galore (sigh)...so like they say...when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

[Deevil]

Oddly, the idea of 'logical' development amuses me.

It's logical that something that has been present since day one, and thus one of the conventions of the Stargate Universe continues on as such.

It's logical that people percieve characters in very different ways.

It's logical that not everything is going to make complete scientific sense. It's pointless to look at it as such.

It is also logical that we see many human alien races - since it has been explained that the Goa'uld took humans from earth and populated the galaxy with them.

It's logical that if we are going to have a alien culture for one episode it isn't going to be the most developed culture. It's there is serve a purpose, not be a public service announcment, or an historical link or anything else.

You see, I don't think everything is perfect. But that being said that idea that something has to follow some sort of logical progression confuses me. What logic do we use to determine how it is meant to progress? That of the Stargate universe, the one that has been set forth? Or that of the real world - which in the grand scheme of things has nothing to do with the Stargate universe?