Fallout (714)

[Matt G]

How the hell would their minions tell the difference between the lot of them though?

[ShadowMaat]

If I was mildly interested in something and sent one of my better agents out to investigate for me and that agent disappeared... I don't know about you, but that would make me MORE interested, not less. Particularly with the kinds of rumors he may have been hearing.

Plus, he'd want to make sure the agent was actually dead and wasn't trying to steal anything for herself...

[Mr Prophet]

I don't think we even have any evidence she was one of his better agents.

I think he just had bigger fish to fry and no-one to spare between watching his back for Yu's recovery and watching his front for Nuby's next counter attack.

[petzke_42]

Ba'al isn't close to all-powerful though.

He's a Goa'uld. They are "all powerful" no matter what...just like they are "Gods."

And I agree with ShadowMaat.

[Mr Prophet]

But they are aware of their own shortcomings, even if they hide them from others; that's why they don't let people shoot them just so they can laugh at them, or indeed stretch themselves too thin trying to do anything and everything. Ba'al's projected air of omnipotence wouldn't have any bearing on his willingness to follow up on the investigation, unless of course he'd been foolish enough to declare his 'secret' mission publically, in which case Kelowna would end up crawling with agents.

I mean, it really depends on how much Ba'al read into Anubis going to Kelowna. If he was just curious and sent an agent on the off-chance, he wouldn't be wanting to look back. That might well fit with the agent immediately throwing over her boss when there turns out to be something really big going on.

I mean, if he knew - or seriously suspected - it was something big, he would have sent someone he could trust more; in as much as he could trust any Goa'uld. Actually, he probably would have sent several agents, just to be on the safe side, if he'd expected anything to come of it.

[SGSlugger]

It would be interesting if Goa'uld found a way to clone themselves (through stolen Asgard technology) because if one physical body fell, the next one would be in line -- although it does beg the question, would clones of someone as power-hungry as Ba'al fight amongst themselves?

No they probably wouldn't, because they would be just a clone of the host body, not the Goa'uld. It wouldn't contain the Goold's nasty nature or any memories, so essentially it would be a blank slate.

[Elwe Singollo]

No they probably wouldn't, because they would be just a clone of the host body, not the Goa'uld. It wouldn't contain the Goold's nasty nature or any memories, so essentially it would be a blank slate.

A whole new life, but sometimes that isn't the best thing...

[ShadowMaat]

Would you be able to clone the host body without actually leaving the host? I guess it depends on how deeply affected (physically) the host is by Goa'uld possession.

I still say that if Ba'al sent ANY agent out on a mission and that agent suddenly failed to report back (especially if she had been sending reports) he'd want to know why. If she's trusted, it'd be because she IS trusted... to a degree. If she isn't trusted, it'd be to make sure she hadn't found something and was hoarding it for herself.

And maybe he DID send multiple agents and the others just haven't been ousted yet. Might be why he isn't overly concrened about the loss of ONE agent...

[Shipperahoy]

One of the things I liked about Fallout (aside from yummy Jonas...even with that haircut) was that it raised some interesting points about Gou'ald. The Gou'ald in whats-her-name seemed to be, if not good, at least conflicted. And what she did at the end was almost self-less. It would be interesting to see if a Gou'ald could legitimately become Tokra.

[Elwe Singollo]

One of the things I liked about Fallout (aside from yummy Jonas...even with that haircut) was that it raised some interesting points about Gou'ald. The Gou'ald in whats-her-name seemed to be, if not good, at least conflicted. And what she did at the end was almost self-less. It would be interesting to see if a Gou'ald could legitimately become Tokra.

I want to see an episode about that too A Goal'ald converting into goodness Like Teal'c turning evil to good

[Mr Prophet]

We know that a Goa'uld can legitimately become Tok'ra. Her name was Egeria.

IIRC, it was never stated that the spy had ever sent a report. If I'm honest, I basically agree with you, but I do think that Ba'al probably has many more important things to worry about.

Ba'al has lost - to our certain knowledge - a secret gravitic research facility and a powerful sidekick (which reminds me that Prophecy suggests that thorough espionage is not his strongest suit), a gang of ships and Jaffa in fighting against Yu and almost certainly a whole mess more against Nuby. Now he has to contend with holding together the alliance of System Lords against Anubis, finding out what exactly happened to Yu, possibly hiding Yu's infirmity from the rest of the SLs so that the power in the alliance doesn't enter into the more terminal forms of interstellar diplomacy, watching his back in case Yu forgets they're supposed to be buddies, watching his back in case the rest of the SLs remember they're Goa'uld, finding new Jaffa, breaking in new lieutenants, building new ships and generally positioning himself for the next break in the pack. He's going to be kinda swamped.

I just feel Kelowna might look an awful lot like a couple of deflector generators in the Hoth system.

Of course, now that Nuby's gone and he's apparently settling himself into the top spot, the super soldiers might give him the breathing room to start wondering about it again.

[yabyumpan]

One of the things I liked about Fallout ........... was that it raised some interesting points about Gou'ald. The Gou'ald in whats-her-name seemed to be, if not good, at least conflicted. And what she did at the end was almost self-less. It would be interesting to see if a Gou'ald could legitimately become Tokra.

For me, that was the most interesting thing about the episode. Right from the begining we've been told that the Gou'ald are evil , no shades of grey, just evil. Now we have a Gou'ald who seemed to take on the feelings and conflicts of the host and who sacrificed itself so the host could live. For me, that's a huge deal and one that I would like to see explored. I was very disappointed that it wasn't even really commented on as being unusual to the point of being unheard of and has never been followed up. I would like to think that it would be followed up in S8 but I think it would cause too many ethical/moral dilemmas for the structure of the show to be able to cope with as it is now. It reminds me of all the debates that went on in fandom after Spike chose to get a soul in BtVS, sadly, I don't think the present PTB are capable or are interested in, looking at the implications of a Gou'ald acting in a selfless and good way. I think the days of Stargate exploring moral/ethical dilemmas such as Scorched Earth or Red Sky are long gone.

[ShadowMaat]

It's because Jonas is so irresistible he can even turn a goa'uld good! Now that's what I call charisma! hehe

[SGSlugger]

Perhaps there is some uncertainy in the ranks of the younger Goa'ulds?

[Mr Prophet]

Presumably the fewer times a Goa'uld has been through a sarcophagus - and the longer it has been since they were last in one - the more 'decent' they'll be. Most of them would probably still be pretty vile - Tanith had after all never been in a sarc - but not exclusively, invariably and irredeemably evil.

[ShadowMaat]

Presumably the fewer times a Goa'uld has been through a sarcophagus - and the longer it has been since they were last in one - the more 'decent' they'll be. Most of them would probably still be pretty vile - Tanith had after all never been in a sarc - but not exclusively, invariably and irredeemably evil.

Personally, I doubt that the sarc has much to do with it. That's too easy an excuse, in my book. I prefer to think of it as more akin to what happened in Unnatural Selection: sometimes a "flaw" simply develops.

[Mr Prophet]

Hmm. Clearly the sarcophagus does have an effect - we saw that effect on Daniel - but that's only a part of what makes the Goa'uld tick. My personal theory is that it relates to a conjunction of:

a) the effects of the sarcophagus;
b) the exact content of the genetic memory which the Goa'uld can access; and
c) general life experience.

So basically, a Goa'uld's personality is the product of their own experiences + the 'experiences' of their ancestors, held in their genetic memory. Most of them are so steeped in blood that they can't see any way but death and craziness. What the sarcophagus does is skew that personality towards the 'evil sadistic *******/*****' setting.

[yabyumpan]

I've always thought it would be interesting to see what sort of Gou'ald Teal'c's symbiot would have made. How much effect would his time spent with the Tau'ri influence the mature Gou'ald's view of humans. Along the same lines, it would be intersting to see what sort of Gou'ald Yu's First Prime's symbiot would be. He seems quite different from other First Prime's and remains in his service and is very protective of him, even though he must know that his Master is not a God. I wonder how much symbiosis there is between a Jaffa host and it's symbiot. (we should probably open up a new thread for this as it's getting way off topic )

[Selmak]

I hate Jonas... why is he back!

[Selmak]

awww... the only nice goa'uld dies.