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  1. #401
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thirty-Eight Minutes (104)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    O'neill has also intentionally put a hand into a wormhole before to keep the gate active and then pulled his hand out ("Shades of Grey" - Season 3, Episode 18). In that case it was an incoming wormhole, though.
    Eli also did the same thing in Air, Part 3. It's a little bit of an inconsistency as we have moments like Point of View with the 'Gate shutting down naturally while an object was still partly dematerialized.

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  2. #402
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thirty-Eight Minutes (104)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    It's a little bit of an inconsistency as we have moments like Point of View with the 'Gate shutting down naturally while an object was still partly dematerialized.
    I suppose it's possible that the power to the gate got shut off and, per the rules, of "38 minutes" that last Jaffa died in the buffer, but they do allow Earnest to be forwarded along in "Torment of Tantalus" even though his support line got cut off. These are early episodes, however, and I don't recall it ever happening after it was firmly established in dialogue that the whole object needs have entered the event horizon before transmission will take place.

  3. #403
    Staff Sergeant SeaShephard's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Thirty-Eight Minutes (104)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    The part of you that is reaching into the wormhole is de-materialized, but it's stored in the outgoing gate's buffer and your data pattern is not sent over until you (or the object) is de-materialized in full. Consequently, you can pull yourself out if you haven't fully passed into the event horizon or someone/something can be pulled out under those same conditions.

    Ford is an extreme example of this, but it happens with people "testing the waters" by putting a hand in and then pulling it nervously out. O'neill has also intentionally put a hand into a wormhole before to keep the gate active and then pulled his hand out ("Shades of Grey" - Season 3, Episode 18). In that case it was an incoming wormhole, though.
    OHHH That's right! I had forgot about that! See enough time passes and this will all be new episodes to watch over again in my old age LOL

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  4. #404
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thirty-Eight Minutes (104)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    I suppose it's possible that the power to the gate got shut off and, per the rules, of "38 minutes" that last Jaffa died in the buffer, but they do allow Earnest to be forwarded along in "Torment of Tantalus" even though his support line got cut off. These are early episodes, however, and I don't recall it ever happening after it was firmly established in dialogue that the whole object needs have entered the event horizon before transmission will take place.
    Ernest is one object, his line another... and it was the line that got cut off when the gate lost power.

    Unless the gate can draw continuous power from -- let's say a black hole -- it will shut down after the 38 minute window and take everything dematerialized with it, like say that one time Teal'c got stuck in the buffer.
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  5. #405
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thirty-Eight Minutes (104)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Ernest is one object, his line another... and it was the line that got cut off when the gate
    Here, though, is the problem: Per "Thirty Eight Minutes," when the gate shuts down after 38 minutes, nothing would have been forwarded to the Atlantis gate because half the jumper had not yet been dematerialized. It doesn't matter that the humans who had been dematerialized were separate objects from the jumper itself. As far as the Stargate was concerned they were all necessary components of the whole that it was waiting to transmit.

    BECKETT: I'm just a medical doctor here, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. If they just stepped through the event horizon, wouldn't they come through the front part of the ship when the Gate shuts down?

    KAVANAGH: The front half won't rematerialise on this side.

    GRODIN: The Stargate transmits matter in discrete units. The front half of the ship cannot rematerialise until the whole ship has crossed into the event horizon. The Stargate is essentially waiting for the contiguous components -- meaning the Jumper and everyone inside -- to enter completely before it can transport them.

    ...

    GRODIN: Unfortunately, the outgoing Stargate won't transmit the matter stream until the demolecularisation is complete. When it shuts down, the entire forward section, along with the men inside, will cease to exist.


    That same logic means the Stargate should have lumped Ernest, his suit, and the wire attached to it together and not transmitted any part of it until/unless the whole had entered the wormhole. And just holding that staff weapon meant that Jaffa in "Point of View" wouldn't have been forwarded to the incoming gate because there was a part of the weapon he was holding that didn't make it into the event horizon in time.

    If you put your hand in the event horizon and watch as Daniel then fully enters the event horizon, it's likely that Daniel's pattern would not be forwarded along unless you remove your hand or fully enter the wormhole yourself. If you stand there like that until the gate loses power or shuts down after 38 minutes, you will lose both your hand and your Daniel because even though you're a separate entity from Daniel, your partial attempt to enter at the same as Daniel actually enters means that the Stargate requires both complete patterns to initiate a transfer.

    That's the only way that the drama in "Thirty Eight Minutes" would have been possible. Otherwise, anyone trapped on the other side of the wormhole could have simply walked into the event horizon and waited until they were forwarded (without any part of the jumper's structure) after the 38 minutes were up.

    That quoted dialogue contradicts the examples we're discussing, but there are a number of contradictions relating to things we saw early on in Sg-1.
    Last edited by Xaeden; September 16th, 2019 at 02:25 AM.

  6. #406
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thirty-Eight Minutes (104)

    An excellent point has been made... I rest my case.

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