Ship Scaling Sprites

[Peoples_General]

What kind of coceyed world do you people live in?!

1,5 Meters as avarage for a human?!
More close to avarage whould be 1,7 if anything and may I remind you that it is quite likly that most of the people down there are men = 1,8 normaly.

And you can't use earth's avarage height, Thanks to the chinese and japanese.

Have you seen a asian person in the ori galaxy? No.
That means that they are europeian by image meaning their avarage height is either 1,7 or 1,8 not 1,5.
Also In country's with plenty of food and health care people grow around 1,8 and 1,9 like here in sweden or germany. So just think about it. A galazy where theres food AND instant health increasers from the prior's the people has to be around 1,7 or 1,8.

Thank you *Bows and walks off, all 1.84 of him*

The world's average height is 172meters or 5 feet 8 inches. Average height in China is also 1.7m. Although the northern parts of China is where you'll find more of the 6 footers. I think its mainly because of the more healthy northern Chinese diet, instead of the greasier southern Cantonese style which is more popular around the world.

Have you seen that many Asians in the show at all? Aside from Yu, Amaterasu, Lucian Alliance Leader, and Oshi (Yu's First Prime)... despite that Vancouver has tons of Asians living there... WHERE ARE THOSE ASIAN ACTORS?

By the way, you wouldn't happen to be a basketball fan?
Chinese National team -vs- some European team


Infact the more industrialized a country becomes, the taller the people become. The average height of Chinese youths have shot up over 6cm, compared to the previous generation 20years ago, thanks to a better nutrition.

http://english.people.com.cn/200206/...19_98155.shtml

http://www.isteve.com/2003_NBA_Heigh...g_Globally.htm

[Karec]

I am well aware of that fact.
And I did say the "Ori galaxy" Not the entire show.
You did't point out that the avarage weight has increased in china either lol

They are going the way of the americans growing fat and stuff. And China is growing as a country alot it self and in a few years will be the worlds econamy times five.

BUT!

Right now people are preforming operations in china ALOT to become taller. The chinese are the best in the world on that type of operations right now.

And that chinese guy in your picture is one of the tallest men alive lol He doesn't count, we where talking avarage

[Peoples_General]

Within a generation those Chinese kids will be the average height of Chinese.

Yes, Im a fan of Yao Ming...

As for the Chinese doing those operations, it's because of job requirements like Airline Stewardesses for example.

Again, better economy = better height. Just in my country the Philippines, people who live in the capital of Manila easily tower over those from the rural areas. This is mainly due to superior nutrition.

[Karec]

And health care

[Peoples_General]

Okay... back to the ships.

Maybe the VFX guys need some Ginseng for their brains to work better...

[Jarnin]

What kind of coceyed world do you people live in?!

1,5 Meters as avarage for a human?!
More close to avarage whould be 1,7 if anything and may I remind you that it is quite likly that most of the people down there are men = 1,8 normaly.

And you can't use earth's avarage height, Thanks to the chinese and japanese.

Have you seen a asian person in the ori galaxy? No.
That means that they are europeian by image meaning their avarage height is either 1,7 or 1,8 not 1,5.

I understand what you're saying, and yeah, 1.5 meters isn't the world average; it's about 1.75 meters.

It doesn't really matter though, because in that picture, even if the people standing around the ships are 1.7-1.8 meters tall, it still scales with the ships dimensions, which is the whole point of using a person in that picture as a reference.

[Sauron18]

Jarnin, I think you are still not getting what I am saying, you keep using facts that are said in the episode (10 by 5). That may be true, but it doesn't matter, using solely visual evidence, the segmetns are different in every shot.

[Jarnin]

Since someone has already accurately scaled Atlantis, I'll use reference his work:

The sequence is a simple setup of Shepard and Weir talking to each other outside of the main Atlantis gate room. Then the camera begins to pull back and slowly dissolves to an exterior shot of the CGI model of Atlantis. The camera continues to pull back and is held low to the surface until the entirety of the CGI model is visible on the screen.

Image 1:

Here we see Maj. Sheppard leaning out on the railing of the platform surrounding the Atlantis central gate room. We will assume that Sheppard is approximately 6 Ft (1.83 M) tall, even allowing for his slightly slumped posture. By scaling this is 231 Pixels or 0.01 Meter/Pixel. We need to confirm this measurement with a similar object before looking at the city structure. By taking an average crewman in the background and scaling his assumed height we get a similar measurement of 6 Ft = 114 Pixels or 0.02 M/P. The difference in the ratios leads me to believe that the higher one is more appropriate to use because of the background character's proximity to the only real structure visible on the image (the two large doors). In addition, because the result of this is going to be a size approximation for the entire city of Atlantis, which is relatively huge when viewed in comparison to an average human, small errors in measurement on this scale will tend to become even smaller towards the end of the process. We can now take the measurement of the large door behind Sheppard to be 210 Pixels or 3.37 M at 0.02 M/P.

Image 2:

Image 2 is taken as the camera begins to pull back and dissolve to the exterior shot of the city. Here we see the large doorway, which was measured in Image 1. Now the measure is extended to the upper curved structure just above the doorway or another 1.22 M.

Image 3:

In Image 3 the dissolve from studio and actors is almost complete and the CGI model is clearly visible. In the center of the image is a large spire with what looks to be multi-segmented glass pane windows on it (I have marked this region for clarity). These windows are the same ones that can be seen behind the Stargate in the Atlantis Gate room.

Just below this region two terraces are visible and the curvature of the structure with Sheppard and Weir is assumed to be identical to the one marked on this image in red. This means that the distance between the curvature and the terrace platform, which was 4.59 M in Image 2, is roughly 5 Pixels on Image 4. This means that the scaling for image 3 can be taken as 0.9 M/P. Which can be used to measure from the top of the terrace to the point at which the spire's cross section begins to increase. This is found to be 35.1 Meters.

Image 4:

Image 4 continues the camera's pullout while still centered on the CGI model. Here as in the other images, a known dimension was used to derive the scaling for the image. In this case the scaling is now at 2.34 M/P. That has been used to measure to an unknown point on the spire in the center of the image.

Image 5:

Now we can measure the entire of the top section of the spire to be 281.2 Meters. We however have a problem. There is no visible landmark from which to measure the height of the Atlantis Central Spire. The outlying buildings towards the arms of the city now directly block our view.

Image 6:

To solve this problem we will use triangulation. The structures marked A, B and C are visible on aerial shots of Atlantis and are located on the outermost parts the "snowflake". The city has a regular symmetrical structure, which radiates from the center outward, so it is easy to use these structures and other witness marks to project backwards. For example structure A is one of the three hexagonal structures that are outlined in red in the image below. Structures B, and C are the small towers nearby also shown on image 5 in red.

Projecting backwards from three points on A, B, and C gives the location of D, which is the base of the central spire. Using previous scaling as a basis indicates the height of the central spire to be 610 Meters.

Image 7:

Image 7 is not from "Rising: Part II" but from a commercial opening during another episode. However it clearly shows the hexagonal shapes from Image 6 as well as the flanking small towers. It also provides a better view of the central tower in relation to the other concentric elements of Atlantis' cityscape.

Image 8:

Image 8 is taken from the climax of "The Eye" as a giant wave of water begins to wash over the recently re-activated Atlantis Shield. Using scaling to a know reference point, in this case the center spire, we can measure everything else of importance in the image.

By projecting the line of the shield forward through the obstructing wave the shield radius is measured to be 1,690.1 Meters, with a height of 664.4 Meters. The wave itself is measured to be 57 Pixels on average which translates to a massive 221.5 Meter tall wall of water.

It is worth noting that these measurements for Atlantis' shield at a diameter of 3.38 Km makes Atlantis' roughly as wide as the island of Manhattan (3.7 Km) but nowhere near as long (21.5 Km). The Central Spire at 610 Meters, larger than the former New York City WTC North and South towers which where only 412 Meters each.

So, from this scaling, Atlantis' dimensions are:

Height: 610 meters
Width: 3380 meters
Length: 3380 meters

Might as well add that to the scaling picture

[Jarnin]

Jarnin, I think you are still not getting what I am saying, you keep using facts that are said in the episode (10 by 5). That may be true, but it doesn't matter, using solely visual evidence, the segmetns are different in every shot.

I'm using all available references to get an accurate scale, and you appear to think that is a bad thing.

If you want to discount my scaling effort because I use accurate information from the show, then I think you've got a screw loose.

This isn't a game where the rules tell us which information we can and cannot use. If you want to use flawed VFX references from Camelot, go right ahead. All I'm saying is that by ignoring references from the show, you're actually hurting your scaling effort in the end.

[Sauron18]

We both agree that there is a VFX mistake, not because it is different from what the characters say (that's not the important part), but because it is inconsistent with other pieces of VFX throughout the series.

You say it's the Ha'taks, I say it's the crowd, in all probablity, it's both. What I was asking is that you calculate things using visual evidence, since what you are trying to point out is a visual effects screwup, you don't need to involve the script, cuz then we got another kind of screwup.

It's fixable, of course. They could always argue that we are seeing different ships, that the Crusade Warships are smaller than the Camelot warships or anything like that.

The point is, there was a VFX mistake. Let's agree on that basic principle and leave it at that.

[Jarnin]

We both agree that there is a VFX mistake, not because it is different from what the characters say (that's not the important part), but because it is inconsistent with other pieces of VFX throughout the series.

I agree. The problem is you're discounting what was said and relying on screwed up VFX of the supergate segment as your prime reference for scale.

You say it's the Ha'taks, I say it's the crowd, in all probablity, it's both. What I was asking is that you calculate things using visual evidence, since what you are trying to point out is a visual effects screwup, you don't need to involve the script, cuz then we got another kind of screwup.

I'm not trying to point out the visual effects screwup, we all know they're there. I'm trying to scrape together accurate dimensions for the Ori Starcraft using references in the show that don't conflict with one another.

It's fixable, of course. They could always argue that we are seeing different ships, that the Crusade Warships are smaller than the Camelot warships or anything like that.

The 12 Ha'taks, from three different factions (Jaffa, Tok'ra and Lucian Alliance) are all shown to be smaller than the Daedalus is long in Camelot.
In the episode Off The Grid the true scale of a Ha'tak (A Lucian Alliance Ha'tak) is shown with the Odyssey in frame: The Odyssey is tiny compared to the Ha'taks.

Camelot downsized the ships we know are massive (Ha'taks and O'neill) to make the Ori look powerful, and to fit everything into the shots. Had those ships been their normal dimensions, the Ori ships would have looked small, the supergate would have looked small, and the Odyssey and Korolev would have been tiny.

The point is, there was a VFX mistake. Let's agree on that basic principle and leave it at that.

I'd be happy to leave it at that, but we disagree on which episode really messed everything up, as well as which information should be used to scale the Ori ships.

FACT: The Ori supergate segments came through the StarGate on the planet Kallana. If you ignore this, then the supergates in Beachhead and Camelot didn't actually exist (it's a paradox).

FACT: The Stargate has a inside diameter of about 5.5 meters. If you ignore this, then Tel'taks can fit through the StarGate, which we know isn't possible (it's another paradox).

FACT: Carter reports the length of the supergate segments in the episode:

MARKS: Multiple contacts on multiple bearings, sir.

MITCHELL: What the hell are they?

CARTER: They're about ten meters long, but sensors read no internal space, no life signs aboard.

If you ignore this, then the supergate segments can be whatever size you want, since there's no consistent scaling done as the episodes progress.

I toss out all the VFX of the supergate segment, because they're all inconsistent and use the dialog from Carter as my reference.

There are only three possibilities: either the Prometheus' telemetry was wrong, Carter didn't read the information on her screen correctly, or the supergate segments are 10 meters in length, and <5.5 meters in width.

[Sauron18]

I was trying to find out the visual effects scaling screwups, my point was, solely the visuals, regardless of whether it made sense or not, just trying to find out what part did not fit.

And let's face it, the Segment's have been screwed up since Beachhead, so I don't even go there and simply ignore it and let the show go on.


Oh right, and just a PS. If the stargate Segments were to be consistent with the whole "coming through the stargate" thing, they'd have to be a maximum of 3 1/2 meters. That's the biggest that can fit through the gate.

[Jarnin]

This thread is to find out the visual effects scaling screwups, my point was, if you want to find the size of the Ori ships using dialogue and everything, do it in the Ori Ship thread, this one is specifically to use what we actually see, regardless of whether it makes sense or not.

Um, no. The original point of this thread was to properly scale the ships in the StarGate universe so we could compare them with each other. Here, I'll even quote the original poster:

Alot of fans have no idea how big some ships are compared to one another. Like Ha'tak to prometheus, or the Daedalus to an Ori warship, so inorder to end this quarrel, I have created a size comparison chart for the ships of stargate. If you see something that you think is incorrect, please post your opinion, and if possible screencaps supporting you.:

I'm not saying you're wrong, you're just posting in the wrong thread (trying to find the size of the Ori ship).

So now I'm not wrong, I'm just ingorant where a post like this should be? I'm sorry, refer to my above quote from Battera; this is the right place.

Like I said already multiple times, I'm using the unconflicting data from the show to scale ships. And this is the right place to post it, since that is the point of this thread.

And let's face it, the Segment's have been screwed up since Beachhead, so I don't even go there and simply ignore it and let the show go on.

Which is why, as I've said before, I'm using the direct quote from Carter and the canonized information about the interior width of the StarGate on Kallana as my references: They're canon! Just because you don't like my results doesn't mean they're not accurate.

Oh right, and just a PS. If the stargate Segments were to be consistent with the whole "coming through the stargate" thing, they'd have to be a maximum of 3 1/2 meters. That's the biggest that can fit through the gate.

Where did you come up with that figure!? Cite your references, otherwise your just spouting numbers.

Also, if you draw it out, you'll see that you're estimation of 3.5 meters is wrong. Just draw it out...

[Sauron18]

About the thread's, yeah I changed my mistake quite a few hours back, yet it still remains we were talking about different things. (It doesn't matter anymore)

About the stargate's maximum size, it's pretty obvious, the stargate itself may be close to 5 meters, but the space through which things come is a lot smaller, in basically any proper pic of a stargate you can see that there is no chance it's a 5 meter hole. The actual space itself has a diameter or 3 1/2, maximum 4 meters.

As for proof, here are two good pictures, which depict an inner height of approximately 3.7 or 4 meters. It's not exact, but it's certainly not 5 meters:

[Jarnin]

About the thread's, yeah I changed my mistake quite a few hours back, yet it still remains we were talking about different things. (It doesn't matter anymore)

About the stargate's maximum size, it's pretty obvious, the stargate itself may be close to 5 meters, but the space through which things come is a lot smaller, in basically any proper pic of a stargate you can see that there is no chance it's a 5 meter hole. The actual space itself has a diameter or 3 1/2, maximum 4 meters.

As for proof, here are two good pictures, which depict an inner height of approximately 3.7 or 4 meters. It's not exact, but it's certainly not 5 meters:

Try a horizontal line instead of a vertical one. The ramp is in the way for those pictures to represent an accurate measurement.