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  1. #41
    Lieutenant Colonel Ancient 1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis
    Madeline, I think you give a very good point concerning what Teal'c does, and I think you're right by being based around the avatar of Teal'c, from this episode. I think it was a good episode, and as you said a fireman as much better for Teal'c than a policeman!


    I wonder if they have these sort of people on Chulak??
    Well if they do, (which I doubt), then they're keeping a very low profile.

  2. #42
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient 1
    Well if they do, (which I doubt), then they're keeping a very low profile.


    They certainly don't have police, as Apophis was there!

  3. #43
    a Dream Master SeaBee's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    An interesting and enjoyable episode, well written by CJ, and it looked as if everybody was really enjoying themselves. I loved Jonas' pinny!
    Some nice "Zen-ish" moments from Daniel, as well.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=29235&d=1297874202

  4. #44
    Captain IMForeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    At Madeline W's request, I am reposting this here:

    "Why I love "The Changeling" by I.M. Foreman

    Think about Teal'c. How much do we really know about our Jaffa friend? How many times have we really ever gotten a good look at the way he thinks, or why he is the way he is. Not often. He's taciturn, and most times downright inscrutible. He very rarely actually says what he thinks.

    Then you get an episode like "The Changeling" and it shows you a little bit of who Teal'c is. How he percieves things. How much his time on Earth has colored how he sees things. This episode shows us so many things about these facets of Teal'c. It shows that he still believes Apophis is there waiting to judge him in the afterlife. It shows that Shau'nac meant more to him than even his wife seems to have. It shows how much of a father Bra'tac is to him, and how much he would give for his old Master. It even puts his SG-1 cohorts in their appropriate roles, even down to billing Jonas as "New Guy".

    It also shows how much Teal'c meant to Daniel. That Daniel sat with him, entered his delusions to keep him grounded... it showed that the much maligned Season 6 was never really Daniel-less. Even though Michael Shanks only appeared in 3 episodes (not counting the voicing of Thor for another 3), Daniel was still very much a presence in the show. Teal'c's mind must have reached out for help, and Daniel provided it... with Teal'c putting him into his traditional role: the person who explains what it all means.

    Trust me, if you go back and look at every scene in Changeling, you will find many subtle, nuanced facets of Teal'c's character nakedly on display, and that is such a rare thing with him. He's so closed off most of the time, that when you get an episode like "Threshold" or "Changeling" or even "Avatar" you get uncharacteristic glances into his thought process. It's sometimes shocking.

    -IMF
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  5. #45
    Second Lieutenant aussie_gal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    yeah true
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  6. #46
    Brigadier General Madeleine's Avatar
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    Some days I can be convinced to go Off Topic for three magic beans and a Kit Kat.

    Quote Originally Posted by IMForeman
    At Madeline W's request, I am reposting this here:

    ...

    every scene in Changeling, you will find many subtle, nuanced facets of Teal'c's character nakedly on display, and that is such a rare thing with him. He's so closed off most of the time, that when you get an episode like "Threshold" or "Changeling" or even "Avatar" you get uncharacteristic glances into his thought process. It's sometimes shocking.
    Thanks! I just wanted to comment without taking the other thread off topic

    It was definitely Teal'c at his most exposed. We'd seen signs of vulnerability in Teal'c before; his son had been used against him, and he'd been captured and tortured, but always before we'd seen him very *together* about it all - he'd have a plan to deal with whatever problem he faced or he'd endure his pain heroically until he could escape, or whatever.

    Threshold was a wonderful glimpse into Teal'c mind, but his doubts in Threshold were all about Apophis, not about himself. Changeling was the first time I ever saw any indication that Teal'c's inner demons included any innate fear of the goa'uld or any self-doubt, so it was definitely shocking. Avatar is the only other time that particular facet of Teal'c has surfaced, so there was a nice symmetry in that Daniel was his lifeline on both occasions.

    Madeleine

  7. #47
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some days I can be convinced to go Off Topic for three magic beans and a Kit Kat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine_W
    Thanks! I just wanted to comment without taking the other thread off topic

    It was definitely Teal'c at his most exposed. We'd seen signs of vulnerability in Teal'c before; his son had been used against him, and he'd been captured and tortured, but always before we'd seen him very *together* about it all - he'd have a plan to deal with whatever problem he faced or he'd endure his pain heroically until he could escape, or whatever.

    Threshold was a wonderful glimpse into Teal'c mind, but his doubts in Threshold were all about Apophis, not about himself. Changeling was the first time I ever saw any indication that Teal'c's inner demons included any innate fear of the goa'uld or any self-doubt, so it was definitely shocking. Avatar is the only other time that particular facet of Teal'c has surfaced, so there was a nice symmetry in that Daniel was his lifeline on both occasions.
    Good points. There are three types of people who have no self-doubt/personal demons at all: the very stupid, the very arrogant, and the very boring. Teal'c is none of these things, but he's far better than most people about keeping that kind of thing internalized. Seeing underneath that facade was cool and provided a great deal of insight to the character.
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  8. #48
    Chief Master Sergeant bioevilfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    I just want to point out Ohper made this great pic.

    Last edited by bioevilfan; January 30th, 2005 at 08:40 PM.
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  9. #49
    Airman Yu`'s Avatar
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    Re: The Changeling (619)

    This was a real good story, and it was good to see Jackson again, but how come Hammond wasnt in the flash back?
    Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself.

  10. #50
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yu`
    This was a real good story, and it was good to see Jackson again, but how come Hammond wasnt in the flash back?
    Flashback? Oh, you mean the dream sequences?

    Why would he be? There was no "role" for him to fulfill, no necessary part. We saw only the most important people in T's life--his team, Bra'tac, Shaun'auc. Hammond just isn't up to that level of importance, as much as Teal'c respects him. What I find weird is that neither his son Ry'ac nor his wife Drey'auc (who has just died, and at whose death he felt much grief) are there.
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    -Michel de Saint-Pierre

    Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
    -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

  11. #51
    Colonel emily_reich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    yeah... i agree.... especially since CJ wrote the script... i'm really surprised neither of them were in it!!

    i loved the episode though... it's one of my favorites of the whole series... did anyone else get little goosebumps the first time around when daniel said "i haven't left your side, Teal'c... and i won't" and you realized it was really ascended daniel???

  12. #52
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    Quote Originally Posted by emily_reich
    yeah... i agree.... especially since CJ wrote the script... i'm really surprised neither of them were in it!!

    i loved the episode though... it's one of my favorites of the whole series... did anyone else get little goosebumps the first time around when daniel said "i haven't left your side, Teal'c... and i won't" and you realized it was really ascended daniel???
    I'm actually not sure, 100%, whether that really was Daniel or just T's mind making up something Daniel would say. It's an ambiguous enough episode that I can't tell. If it really is him, I'm kind of surprised he doesn't have a more active role, or at least a more obvious one. He's only in, what, a few scenes? When Jack was in trouble, he was there a lot more.
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    -Michel de Saint-Pierre

    Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
    -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

  13. #53
    Colonel emily_reich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    at this point tealc had no idea daniel was ascended and could come back and visit people...

    i'm certain in my mind it was daniel... espcially after he came back to help jack in abyss (that being a similar situation) and since daniel was there at the very end....

    it's possible that at FIRST teal'c put daniel into his story, and then realdaniel took the place of the imagined daniel...

    but if you listen to what he says to tealc the whole time it's fairly obvious it's daniel and if you look back already knowing it's him it's fairly obvious (at thebeginning tealc' asks something about whether he's there to help him or pick at his brain or something, and daniel says "something like that")


  14. #54
    Brigadier General Madeleine's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice
    I'm actually not sure, 100%, whether that really was Daniel or just T's mind making up something Daniel would say. It's an ambiguous enough episode that I can't tell. If it really is him, I'm kind of surprised he doesn't have a more active role, or at least a more obvious one. He's only in, what, a few scenes? When Jack was in trouble, he was there a lot more.
    I think Daniel was probably with Bra'tac for some of the time. And possibly at the SGC nudging Jack & co towards a decision to go and find Teal'c.

    He knew he had The Others watching him ready to stop him, so he was subtle about what he did for Teal'c; but it seemed to work

    Madeleine

  15. #55
    Colonel emily_reich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    yeah.... that's why daniel would only show up for a short period of time...

    cuz ya notice daniel left the first time RIGHT before teal'c vision switched back over to the SGC one???? a connection?? i think so

  16. #56
    Major Metarock Sam's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    I loved this episode in my opinion one of the best 3 in the season (next to Full Circle and Abyss. Not only because of Great Acting and directing from Chris Judge & Co. But also because it had Daniel and the question remains how much did he help teal'c? I guess we'll have too find out sooner or later .
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  17. #57
    Major General greytop's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    This episode was confusing to me in going back and forth between being Teal'c, the Jaffa, and Teal'c, the fireman. The only time I was not confused was the last ten minutes of the show.

    Just my $.02 (american) worth.

  18. #58
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    Quote Originally Posted by greytop
    This episode was confusing to me in going back and forth between being Teal'c, the Jaffa, and Teal'c, the fireman. The only time I was not confused was the last ten minutes of the show.

    Just my $.02 (american) worth.
    I think you're supposed to be confused. That's the point. We experience what Teal'c experiences, and he's confused, so we're supposed to be too.
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    An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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    Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
    -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

  19. #59
    Colonel emily_reich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    i think i was confused until daniel said his thing to teal'c about maybe neither one is real, and then the light bulb for the whole ep came on!! then i REALLY got it when daniel said "i haven't left your side teal'c" or however it was worded... then i COMPLETELY understood i think as much as is possible

    but i agree with Beatrice... there's still supposed to be some mystery there and that's why it's such a great episode!! definately one of the season's best, if not series' best

  20. #60
    First Lieutenant Hywel's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Changeling (619)

    I really enjoyed this episode. If I'm the only one in my family who understands what was going on, then it has to be good sci-fi. I found this episode to remind me of 'The X-Files'.

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