The Sci. & Tech. Concordance and Discussion Thread

[Seastallion]

I agree, it should be taken as a serious threat. The governments and corperations of the world are ignoring the problem. I still want to be optimistic though

ORION:



^ This thing could be built with a 60s level of technology

It could carry a payload equivalent to a small city

Approximate velocity would be around 10% of the speed of light

Presumably it would include a huge, spinning (to produce artificial gravity) 'habitat' section where humans could live.

Sweeeeet...! ^ I like it..!

Don't get me wrong. I take it seriously too, but I'm just not ready to concede to the defeatist attitude some would lead us into with those predictions. I think the planet is tougher than that, and I think humanity and nature itself will find a way to deal. It may not be easy, but I believe it will happen, none the less.

[immhotep]

This is what poeple are not getting, the damage is already done.
Were only researching how long it will take for us to die...nature and the planet will survive but OUR part of life seperated from that balence 6-8000 years ago...
This isnt me being synical and pecimistic, im a realist, this is going to happen, and im pretty unhappy and i think as a person whose goign to face this is have a right to be...by the time this comes in to effect the people who caused it will be dead! they're the lucky one, dont get me wrong im going to enjoy things for as long as i can but its going to get bad...pack your survival gear kids, your gunna need everything that the humanbody can withstand...personally id invent myself a robot that i can put my mind in to, then we wouldnt need the planet to be habitableto live on.

[Seastallion]

This is what poeple are not getting, the damage is already done.
Were only researching how long it will take for us to die...nature and the planet will survive but OUR part of life seperated from that balence 6-8000 years ago...
This isnt me being synical and pecimistic, im a realist, this is going to happen, and im pretty unhappy and i think as a person whose goign to face this is have a right to be...by the time this comes in to effect the people who caused it will be dead! they're the lucky one, dont get me wrong im going to enjoy things for as long as i can but its going to get bad...pack your survival gear kids, your gunna need everything that the humanbody can withstand...personally id invent myself a robot that i can put my mind in to, then we wouldnt need the planet to be habitableto live on.

Make no mistake. I respect your view on it. However, I refuse to accept a defeatist attitude myself. I agree that we should do everything possible to minimize damages, but I simply will not concede defeat before it is over. I would rather live fighting with hope, than to hang my head in defeat waiting for the end to come. I refuse to do that. On that my mind is made up. I accept that there are problems, and that we must deal with them. If it came to it, we could pull a 'matrix scenario' and live underground until the planet restored itself. There are many possibilities, and opportunities. We even could terraform Mars, or create cities beneath the oceans here on Earth. There are many possibilities of surviving on 'Spaceship Earth'. We have only to use our imaginations (as you yourself immhotep are so fond of doing), and we CAN survive. I have no doubt of it.

[immhotep]

Hey im saying this is going to happen, i never said we cant escape it; but the problem is to do so were going to have to make soem very tough choices, there are going to be deaths, on the scale never seen before, and im not being nasty or condemning people but people in MEDC's have the greatest chance of surviving and as such its those peopele's resposiblilitie to make sure they do, and everyone else has to follow after.
One idea that might work is creating atlanti's, underwater cities, in fact i had an idea about this once that i once explained to owen...about using domes of solid reinforced glass over cityies and usings magnetic clamps to secure them to the ocean bed.
However, this would mean a total and complete acceptance of the facts, global organsiation of resources and planning of military effectiveness; it would mean building, say 5 cities, (one for each continent), each able to survive the presure of not just our ocean but the futures, with enough air and supply or way to get supplys for indefinate periods of time.
On top of this it would mean that designers would need power sources that didnt rely on anything FF, id surgest tidal ( underwater windmill power) combined with geothermal ( use the mid-atlantic ridge for somthing). as well as enough room for populations to grow and susttainable grow for the rest of time. The cities would need to support approxematly 300million people each, in order for a reasonable survival rate/ cost of project. That 1.5 billion peopel, 1 quarter of the world, which is harsh but quite goodl when looked at with mass extinction in contrast, IMO.

The other option is just as tricky, terraforming mars in the time we have would still require a massive international operation, it took earth 1.4 billion years to devlop an atmosphere that would protect us from the sun..i dont see it as a viable option.

One idea to consider would be the lifeboat, if medicine can advance to a point where effective cryogenics is a large scale option then we should take it. Create a giant spaceship in orbit, with space for everyone who is alive at that point (IMO we'll be at rainforest burning by this point) and just simply leave it in orbit(and wait until the planet recovers), or set it off in the direction of a suitable world hoping for salvation.
These are our options:
Stay and adapt,
Leave and hope
Do nothing and perish,

Immhotep

[Seastallion]

Hey im saying this is going to happen, i never said we cant escape it; but the problem is to do so were going to have to make soem very tough choices, there are going to be deaths, on the scale never seen before, and im not being nasty or condemning people but people in MEDC's have the greatest chance of surviving and as such its those peopele's resposiblilitie to make sure they do, and everyone else has to follow after.
One idea that might work is creating atlanti's, underwater cities, in fact i had an idea about this once that i once explained to owen...about using domes of solid reinforced glass over cityies and usings magnetic clamps to secure them to the ocean bed.
However, this would mean a total and complete acceptance of the facts, global organsiation of resources and planning of military effectiveness; it would mean building, say 5 cities, (one for each continent), each able to survive the presure of not just our ocean but the futures, with enough air and supply or way to get supplys for indefinate periods of time.
On top of this it would mean that designers would need power sources that didnt rely on anything FF, id surgest tidal ( underwater windmill power) combined with geothermal ( use the mid-atlantic ridge for somthing). as well as enough room for populations to grow and susttainable grow for the rest of time. The cities would need to support approxematly 300million people each, in order for a reasonable survival rate/ cost of project. That 1.5 billion peopel, 1 quarter of the world, which is harsh but quite goodl when looked at with mass extinction in contrast, IMO.

The other option is just as tricky, terraforming mars in the time we have would still require a massive international operation, it took earth 1.4 billion years to devlop an atmosphere that would protect us from the sun..i dont see it as a viable option.

One idea to consider would be the lifeboat, if medicine can advance to a point where effective cryogenics is a large scale option then we should take it. Create a giant spaceship in orbit, with space for everyone who is alive at that point (IMO we'll be at rainforest burning by this point) and just simply leave it in orbit(and wait until the planet recovers), or set it off in the direction of a suitable world hoping for salvation.
These are our options:
Stay and adapt,
Leave and hope
Do nothing and perish,

Immhotep

Well, whatever happens time will tell. I just don't expect I'll have to worry about it myself to soon. I could worry about it, but there is nothing I could personally do. When things get so nuts, it's impossible to ignore, then I'll get antsy about it, but until then, I'm just going to live my life as I can.

[Wraith Scientist]

I'm tending towards agreeing with immhotep: Climate change is a serious threat.

[RANT]

This is what annoys me about humans: lack of coordination, greed and lack of forsight

America still refuses to acknowlege that global warming exists despite massive amounts of evidence to support it. Their greed, the greed of the rapidly industralising China and the greed of the countries burning the rainforest is going to cause a massive global disaster.

The world is simply motivated by money - they don't care about what will happen to their children and planet Earth in the future. Oil companies (and others) will gladly go on lobbying for more lax pollution regulations so long as they can make money out of it. Cigarette companies will gladly lie to and kill millions just so they can make a profit - it disgusts me

The human race may survive, but they will look back on us with shame. They will look upon us as we look upon times gone past - it's better now than it was then.

We are too primative for or own technology. Most of the world's population lives under the poverty line - we can feed everyone but we don't bother; our society is hopelessly inefficient and apathetic; we live under incompetent, dictatorial governments.

[/RANT]

Whew, I needed that ...

I hold out hope for the future - the human race has a long way to go yet. In time the human race will realise: they are like teenagers, convinced of their own immortality - "it won't happen to me", blinded, stubborn and narrowminded.

The human race badly needs to grow up ...

[immhotep]

i guess thats all we can do, and that is will do, but i just wanted to make my opinions noted that i think something MUST done NOW, my personal future is at stake, tell the presidents that thier childen will be amounst the last on this planet.
I think everyones future is at stake but mine more than most because i worked this out, i will see: the polar ices caps melting, half of the coast line of the northern hemishpere including my hometown disappear, the forests and the oceans on fire with suplhur dioxide released form the arctic reserves, a thick blanket of smog worldwide blocking out 90% of the sunlight and most of the green areas on the earth turn to desert with the desert turning to some glassy molton abomination...and this is all within the century...all within my current lifespan...still within every person i know's lifepsan.

But yes, if anyone would like to know of where a thread might be, ask. dont think any of these posts are daunting, If you want to ask ASK our topics are tertiary to the purpose of the thread, second to informing posts and updating the concordiance

[Wraith Scientist]

Eureka..!!!

I don't have time right now, (I'm on my lunch break) but I finally figured out what has to be done to open a hyperspace window. I also figured out what a hyperspace corridor is in relation to 'normal' space time. It also explains why hyperspace is sometimes referred to as a 'slip' stream. It ALSO explains why mass causes gravity (in a general sense anyways). I feel like I just hit a homerun out of the park..! I'll give you more details later on.

It is really very cool...! (or at least I think so)

It explains so much, that it may take a while. Also, I'm going to need to make some visuals on my computer to add to it. This is gonna be great..!

Ready to explain your breakthrough Seastallion?

[_Owen_]

Well mass causes gravity because it warps the space time continuum, but I'm sure your idea is much better than stupid old general relativity (lol ) I'd like to hear what you have.

[_Owen_]

I'm tending towards agreeing with immhotep: Climate change is a serious threat.

[RANT]

This is what annoys me about humans: lack of coordination, greed and lack of forsight

America still refuses to acknowlege that global warming exists despite massive amounts of evidence to support it. Their greed, the greed of the rapidly industralising China and the greed of the countries burning the rainforest is going to cause a massive global disaster.

The world is simply motivated by money - they don't care about what will happen to their children and planet Earth in the future. Oil companies (and others) will gladly go on lobbying for more lax pollution regulations so long as they can make money out of it. Cigarette companies will gladly lie to and kill millions just so they can make a profit - it disgusts me

The human race may survive, but they will look back on us with shame. They will look upon us as we look upon times gone past - it's better now than it was then.

We are too primative for or own technology. Most of the world's population lives under the poverty line - we can feed everyone but we don't bother; our society is hopelessly inefficient and apathetic; we live under incompetent, dictatorial governments.

[/RANT]

Whew, I needed that ...

I hold out hope for the future - the human race has a long way to go yet. In time the human race will realise: they are like teenagers, convinced of their own immortality - "it won't happen to me", blinded, stubborn and narrowminded.

The human race badly needs to grow up ...

Actually, we are having a discussion over on Stargate Omega (http://stargateomega.com/forum) about global warming. http://www.stargateomega.com/forum/showthread.php?t=672

spg_1983 has proposed that evidence exists that actually suggests the global temperature is falling, unfortunately he hasn't been by lately to support his accusations, but it is an interesting thought.

[immhotep]

NO hes right global temperatures are falling due to an effect called global dimming, basicly particles in the air, dust & soot, have made cloads reflect sunlight worldwide. Thus countering the effects of global warming in the 70's and 80's however recently during the last decade and millenium period we have reduced pollution, using carbonic filters on cars and the like meaning less soot, ash and dust but meaning more sunlight get through and increases global warming.
We cant actually win, polluting has recuced short term the effects of global warming but in the long term meant our models are short by up to 40 years, our esimates were we needed to stop by 2030 now its 2010.
Global warming will get worse the less we pollute ironicly.

[Seastallion]

Ready to explain your breakthrough Seastallion?

I think so. I just wish I had better pictures.

It is based fairly strongly on String Theory. I heavily use the analogy of 'fabric' to explain the ideas. I have no doubt, that much of it you've already heard before. I'll try not to go over things we've already been over too much. I haven't finished with all the drawings I've been making to try and explain it. It may turn out that I won't need them. I think I'm going to take this incrementally anyways.

Wraith, you remember the pic you used with the Earth warping the checkered graphic representation of space time? (I know you do ) It wasn't entirely accurate in fact, though useful in explaining the effect of gravity. For one thing, space time is three dimensional, and the drawing only shows a 2-D warping effect. It would be more accurate if the drawing showed the gravitational effect as being a 'knot' in the center of a fabric.



As you can see from the picture above, the 'threads' of space-time (or 'strings' in String Theory), are 'massed' together or bunched into a 'knot'. This is what happens with celestial objects, except in all 3 Dimensions. You have probably seen this effect on actual cloth, where all the threads are tightly bundled together. Imagine if you were travelling along one of those threads, you would follow the thread right into the knot, just as gravity draws objects towards their source as well.

As you know from String Theory, all of the so-called subatomic particles are actually 'strings' vibrating at certain frequencies which determine what those particles are. In matter, those strings becomes more tightly bundled together. Everything in the universe is inter-connected by these strings and their vibrations. Remember that these strings are at such an incredibly small scale, that it would take a huge number of them to match the diameter of a single atom. All material objects are the result of the bundling of these strings together, thus every object possesses a gravity field. The more massive an object (the density of the bundled strings together) the more gravitational effect it has. Thus more massive objects have far greater gravity.

I'll stop here, to see if there are any questions on it so far. There is yet more to explain.

[immhotep]

nope no questions, continue (im sure my IQ has improved since this thread started!)

[_Owen_]

Not to nitpick but space-time is actually four-dimensional, hence the "time" aspect as the fourth dimension. I don't like doing this but all I see so far is another analogy to explain general relativity. I hold strongly to the opinion that we can't acurately show a warping of the space-time continuum in any two or even three-dimensional means. The only way would could show this was by "recreating" a mini space-time, and to do that we would be able to see space-time and see the warps in space-time and while some could argue that we can see space-time, we still can't visibly see that warps. And in addition to that, it's a good analogy but the two dimensional fabric and ball one is just a little bit better. That can explain, somewhat paradoxially how gravity works, it does this by using gravity to explain the warping of the fabric. What you have done is take the analogy to another level, you now have no way to explain why objects would follow these strings. In another addition, I don't believe string theory comes off this way, at least it doesn't seem like it to me.

Now the final point, what you have is an idea, that doesn't have any scientific or mathematical basis, it is an idea that happens to very miniscully use an actuall theory to support it. Which does seem to resemble the two dimensional representation of gravity. It is an idea, that use the theory of gravity (paradoxially) to explain how gravity works. The only difference between your idea and the analogy using the fabric, is that analogy is recognized as an analogy. I don't want to come off like a you-know-what hole, but I have developed ideas only to have them blow up in my face and it is really disapointing to me, but I think finding out that there is a problem with your theory or idea, is better than having everyone lead you on. Now I might be entirely wrong, but it's just my opinion, so I appoligize for this post. But I am looking forward to hear about the hyperspace part.

[immhotep]

Welcome back owen Which ideas of your blew up in your face; any that we may have discussed privately? ( the O.F 1?)
BTW Sea, this is now my favourate thread for along time, i may not understand everything but its very fun to try! and even better just to listen.