The Sci. & Tech. Concordance and Discussion Thread

[Wraith Scientist]

I agree that the 4 known forces of nature are seperate things, but they are ALL related to atomic structure. And atomic structure is in turn based on sub-atomic particles, that are themselves not truly 'particles' but specific vibrational frequency patterns. As I see it, many of the different theories all have truth in them, but they have yet to be unified. No one has yet came up with a GUF theory, that can combine General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. I suppose that is what I'm trying to do, even if my own attempts are rather feeble. Even so, they ARE based actual scientific theories that have yet to be disproven.

As I said before, what IF (and I think Immhotep is following to a point on this), gravity is a result of the actions of electrons, even if not caused directly by electrons per se? If that is the case, then if we can properly maniuplate those electrons, we can generate and alter gravitational fields. I think that is the basic point of Dr. Ning Li's work.

Of course, if gravity is due to the spin of electrons then gravity could be manipulated if the way you propose. However, I do not believe that gravity is the result of spinning electrons.
1) Neutron stars don't have any electrons, but they produce one of the strongest gravitational fields in the universe
2) Most theories point at mass being the 'cause' of gravity

This does not rule out gravity manipulation. Now, I don't know how such a system would work but that doesn't mean I can't speculate

Here's two:

1) 'Harvesting' gravitons from the quantum vaccum by 'paying their energy debt' - virtual particles live on 'borrowed time' but if they are given energy they become 'real' I would need photons precisely callibrated to the energy that the virtual gravitons require. Then, I separate them from their anti-graviton partners and direct them to where I want them.

2) Bending space-time (somehow!) so that the gravitons from a few micro-black holes that I have created in my particle accelerator 'leak' through space-time to where I want them (it has been hypothesised that gravity leaks through to other dimensions), 'simulating' a mass elswhere.

There ya go

[Seastallion]

Of course, if gravity is due to the spin of electrons then gravity could be manipulated if the way you propose. However, I do not believe that gravity is the result of spinning electrons.
1) Neutron stars don't have any electrons, but they produce one of the strongest gravitational fields in the universe

Actually, your wrong about that. Neutron stars DO indeed have electrons. To reference Wikipedia, as you yourself are fond of doing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star

2) Most theories point at mass being the 'cause' of gravity

I don't disagree with that. But saying that mass 'causes' gravity, does NOT explain the mechanics of it. What I've been trying to do is explain the mechanics behind HOW mass causes gravity. That is all.

This does not rule out gravity manipulation. Now, I don't know how such a system would work but that doesn't mean I can't speculate

Here's two:

1) 'Harvesting' gravitons from the quantum vaccum by 'paying their energy debt' - virtual particles live on 'borrowed time' but if they are given energy they become 'real' I would need photons precisely callibrated to the energy that the virtual gravitons require. Then, I separate them from their anti-graviton partners and direct them to where I want them.

2) Bending space-time (somehow!) so that the gravitons from a few micro-black holes that I have created in my particle accelerator 'leak' through space-time to where I want them (it has been hypothesised that gravity leaks through to other dimensions), 'simulating' a mass elswhere.

There ya go

Of course..! I would invite any speculation on how it might be done. #2 includes the theory that gravity may seem to be so weak, because it is the one force of nature that acts as a link into other dimensions, thus its apparent strength is 'diluted'. In other words, it is sort of like it is being stretched thin, because it is covering more spatial dimensions. This is the reason that some believe it could be used to open passageways to other dimensions.

[Wraith Scientist]

Actually, your wrong about that. Neutron stars DO indeed have electrons. To reference Wikipedia, as you yourself are fond of doing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star

Sorry, my bad Neutron stars do contain electrons

Black holes?

I don't disagree with that. But saying that mass 'causes' gravity, does NOT explain the mechanics of it. What I've been trying to do is
explain the mechanics behind HOW mass causes gravity. That is all.

OK, fair enough

Of course..! I would invite any speculation on how it might be done. #2 includes the theory that gravity may seem to be so weak, because it is the one force of nature that acts as a link into other dimensions, thus its apparent strength is 'diluted'. In other words, it is sort of like it is being stretched thin, because it is covering more spatial dimensions. This is the reason that some believe it could be used to open passageways to other dimensions.

Gravity does have the odd property of warping space whereas the other forces do not seem to do so. Gravity is a very odd force - the 'black sheep' of the fundamental forces. This is why there is such difficulty in unification.

Some more speculation: (that's what this thread's for right?)

Minature black holes Perhaps some of those might be useful in some way?

For #2 I need a way of bending space-time into a certain shape ... high-energy gravitons might be the best bet ...

I like #1 for small-scale use. I need a way to generate photons with a precisely controlled energy.

[Seastallion]

Black Holes?

Yes, even Black Holes have 'electrons', but they are so tightly condensed in the most massive matter that is possible. In other words, a Black Hole would have even more electrons than a planet, or star. Because it has much more matter; ergo...

How a hyperdrive would work, would be similiar to a miniature black hole (based on energy rather than matter), in that it would concentrate a great deal of gravimetric energy into a small area of space (much as a black hole would). The difference being, that the gravimetric energy being used would be an artificially generated and focused 'anti-gravity' beam that would 'stab' its way through the fabric of space-time, causing a temporary tear to form.

I'm starting to repeat myself at this point. I shall stop there, otherwise I'll just end up repeating an entire post. I will eventually come up with a hyperdrive design, one which to begin with was not all that dissimiliar to Heim's theoretical hyperdrive, with a few modifications. I even came up with an alter version that might serve as the Asgard example of a hyperdrive. Of course its all baloney, but it's nice to have a piece of psuedo-technology to point to than nothing at all.

[immhotep]

I think that we are getting nowhere here, godo arguments have been raised but nothing is going to be reolved within the next decade so let just end this part of the discussion here: back to topic,
i believe we were trying to make a database of useful threads that have been around or are particularly relevent to someones interests.


So, Sea, with your permission, Can we transform this thread in to the S&T section help thread.
Many of us have been here for over a year, i myself have been part of this section for along time and seen hundreds of good threads pass through, so this thread can now become the S&T signpost, before you post a new thread, come here, ask if there have been any threads relating to this or had dscussions relating specificly to what you are about to post on; the search feature isnt actually reliable in doing this, WE ARE.
So if you have a query on threads past and present, or want to get some solid grounding in what your about to post come here.

example:
"i want to post"
'a thread about how the ships i stargate have devloped over the years and where they are gong to lead'

"take a look here, you may find your opinions already devloped further than yours, and backed up"
i would then link you to ''earth ships: past, present and future'', "the Asgard ship thread", "the ultimate ship discussion thread" or "the promethius and deadalus diff thread" to lead you in a good direction of relevent material to quote or use in any further extention to your own theorys.

I am surgesting this 'shift' in thread purpose because over the last few years 70% of the threads are repeat threads, with people not wanting to read though 17 odd pages of text when they could just post something new and getting a 'please post here <<link>>' message 4 replys down by 6 members.

If you do want to give a reference point and its a long thread of more than say 5 pages, try to give some refence point to head to 'the ultimate ship discussion thread', page 14, reply 297 for example.
This should help in creating a nice yet more streamlined S&T section for all to enjoy. thanks

Immhotep

[Wraith Scientist]

it's nice to have a piece of psuedo-technology to point to than nothing at all.

Now that I can agree with Fact or fiction, speculation is still fun ...

OK, here's some speculation of my own: a 'gravity beam':

Step 1) Photon source - Uses electron orbital changes to generate a stream of photons at the precise energy of a graviton.

Step 2) Separator - uses some method (that I haven't thought of yet) to harvest gravitons before they annihilate with their antiparticle partners

It can be used in two modes:
1) Graviton mode - produces an attractive stream of gravitons
2) Antigraviton mode - harvests anti gravitons that annihilate with regular gravitons, lessening the pull of gravity

And some speculation on an inertial dampner: Same as above, except with higgs bosons rather than gravitons. Antihiggs mode reduces inertia by annihilating the higgs bosons that give particles mass.

[Seastallion]

I think that we are getting nowhere here, godo arguments have been raised but nothing is going to be reolved within the next decade so let just end this part of the discussion here: back to topic,
i believe we were trying to make a database of useful threads that have been around or are particularly relevent to someones interests.


So, Sea, with your permission, Can we transform this thread in to the S&T section help thread.
Many of us have been here for over a year, i myself have been part of this section for along time and seen hundreds of good threads pass through, so this thread can now become the S&T signpost, before you post a new thread, come here, ask if there have been any threads relating to this or had dscussions relating specificly to what you are about to post on; the search feature isnt actually reliable in doing this, WE ARE.
So if you have a query on threads past and present, or want to get some solid grounding in what your about to post come here.

example:
"i want to post"
'a thread about how the ships i stargate have devloped over the years and where they are gong to lead'

"take a look here, you may find your opinions already devloped further than yours, and backed up"
i would then link you to ''earth ships: past, present and future'', "the Asgard ship thread", "the ultimate ship discussion thread" or "the promethius and deadalus diff thread" to lead you in a good direction of relevent material to quote or use in any further extention to your own theorys.

I am surgesting this 'shift' in thread purpose because over the last few years 70% of the threads are repeat threads, with people not wanting to read though 17 odd pages of text when they could just post something new and getting a 'please post here <<link>>' message 4 replys down by 6 members.

If you do want to give a reference point and its a long thread of more than say 5 pages, try to give some refence point to head to 'the ultimate ship discussion thread', page 14, reply 297 for example.
This should help in creating a nice yet more streamlined S&T section for all to enjoy. thanks

Immhotep

Absolutely..! I'll add that into the first post, so that people will know that they have that option of making an inquiry on this thread. The trick is having someone around ot answer the question in a timely manner. This thread is ALSO for the discussion of ANYTHING that has to do with Science and Technology. We don't need to resolved anything necessarily, but it is sometimes fun to discuss the possibilities of any S&T ideas.

I see your point about having so much material to wade through, and my attempt has been post the most popular or most recent threads. Some threads, I've purposely skipped and will continue to, unless otherwise asked to. Truth be told, I need help to complete it. If you'd consider helping me, you could use your first post in this thread and use it to add more links within it. I know that eventually, my Concordance Post will run out of space. Then I'll have to try and use my other posts to fill in the gaps. It would help me a great deal however, to have help doing that.

Anyone else's list of threads need not necessarily have the same threads as mine; you could simply put in your favorite threads or posts. You would govern the content of your own posts, as usual. I will continue to work on mine as well, just not all at once. This is a long term project, so I reserve the right to take breaks. I have been adding threads into the posts here and there infrequently. Occaisonally I will add to it in larger doses.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: Okay, Immhotep, I added that option into my first post. Now we just have to see if it will work out all right. I'd like for it too very much. I agree it would help cut down on repeat threads. Also if people actually make use of it.

[immhotep]

Im up to it, ive been around long enough and am always on, so yeah im up for it, if we are used then we can alway ask the mods for sticky status, then it would be a propper resource. Because im sure they are also fed up of X number of repeat threads, needed pruning and merging just to keep up. This way their work load would be reduced because poeple will have more focused discussion. in that we will have say 50 large and specific threads on alot of topics instead of 500 threads 4 pages longs ending in no actual answer just alot of debating and technical squabbling along the way...which is always fun in large groups, 4 page of 2 on 2 isnt.

[Seastallion]

Now that I can agree with Fact or fiction, speculation is still fun ...

OK, here's some speculation of my own: a 'gravity beam':

Step 1) Photon source - Uses electron orbital changes to generate a stream of photons at the precise energy of a graviton.

Step 2) Separator - uses some method (that I haven't thought of yet) to harvest gravitons before they annihilate with their antiparticle partners

It can be used in two modes:
1) Graviton mode - produces an attractive stream of gravitons
2) Antigraviton mode - harvests anti gravitons that annihilate with regular gravitons, lessening the pull of gravity

And some speculation on an inertial dampner: Same as above, except with higgs bosons rather than gravitons. Antihiggs mode reduces inertia by annihilating the higgs bosons that give particles mass.

Sweet..! *whew* You keep me on my toes. I'm going to have to go back and do some reading on my science again. There are a lot of intricacies in quantum mechanics that can get very confusing just because there are so MANY types of particles, real or imagined.

[Seastallion]

Im up to it, ive been around long enough and am always on, so yeah im up for it, if we are used then we can alway ask the mods for sticky status, then it would be a propper resource. Because im sure they are also fed up of X number of repeat threads, needed pruning and merging just to keep up. This way their work load would be reduced because poeple will have more focused discussion. in that we will have say 50 large and specific threads on alot of topics instead of 500 threads 4 pages longs ending in no actual answer just alot of debating and technical squabbling along the way...which is always fun in large groups, 4 page of 2 on 2 isnt.

Agreed. It does get a little disconcerting when you find yourself debating the same thing in 3 or 4 different threads. I've been debating for quite a while in the "Why is there a Point of Origin" thread, and it has gotten enough traffic that it might deserve sticky status itself. Unfortunately, I find that I'm often arguing the same things over and over again. I recently ended up making a list of almost every post I made in that thread rather than repeating everything I had already said. Now I'm finding that I'm repeating it anyways. Oh, well...



Edit: Oh, by-the-by... If you happen to come across a thread in your personal searchings within the S&T subforum, that you think deserves particular attention in the main list at the beginning of this thread, then I'll try to do my best to see that it finds its way there. Just provide me with the location of the thread, and I'll edit the main post, to include it.

[immhotep]

Lol i saw that, was quite amusing at the time. But yeah between us and a few other members we could cover almost every topic and the threads relating to them quite easily...i wonder if owen could be used, he used to be S&T's no1 poster, i bet he could help direct people around the section very nicely.

[Seastallion]

Lol i saw that, was quite amusing at the time. But yeah between us and a few other members we could cover almost every topic and the threads relating to them quite easily...i wonder if owen could be used, he used to be S&T's no1 poster, i bet he could help direct people around the section very nicely.

I have no doubts that he could. That guy made me dizzy with all his posting sometimes. I'm a little more choosy, but he post up a storm just about anywhere. *whew* If he is up to it, I'd love to have him help us out. It makes me wonder though, if we shouldn't have another thread to let new posters in the S&T subforum know to check the Search function or this thread first before they make new threads. Then have that one 'tacked' so it can be easily found by the newbies. Maybe it could be titled, "New Posters..! Read here first..!" Or something like that. Then from there we could explain the 'customs' in the subforum, particularly for searching out old threads on the topics they're interested in, OR using this thread to find out if they aren't 'savvy' enough for that. What do you think?

[immhotep]

How about this, We can ask the mods to sticky this, and potentially do an announcment for this section, making people aware of the reason were doing. I think a post in the ask the mods thread is in order, we are after all trying to streameline thing, hey maybe he mods will use this long term, when merging threads theyll have a better idea of where threads on certain topics are bieng directed to, nad can merge them more usefully so that the topics blend easier.. i can remember when the furling threads got merged, that was a headache!

[Seastallion]

How about this, We can ask the mods to sticky this, and potentially do an announcment for this section, making people aware of the reason were doing. I think a post in the ask the mods thread is in order, we are after all trying to streameline thing, hey maybe he mods will use this long term, when merging threads theyll have a better idea of where threads on certain topics are bieng directed to, nad can merge them more usefully so that the topics blend easier.. i can remember when the furling threads got merged, that was a headache!

That is a distinct possibility, I agree. If the idea is to make as many people aware of what this thread is for as possible, than perhaps it will be used more often by both Posters, and Moderators. I can see how this thread could be a big help by making certain that the most popular threads and/or topics are easy to find, which would shorten search times for both posters and mods.

I had always envisioned this thread's first few pages as being devoted to the Concordance, and the later pages as being free for open discussion of any and all topics concerning S&T. Whether it was a query about finding older threads or about making new ones, or simply as a place for us regulars to get together and to simply discuss whatever we'd like. It could be about S&T, or nothing at all. It could be about what you had for lunch...

Partly, I felt that way, because lots of other 'groups', shippers or otherwise have 'their' community threads, and I felt it was appropriate that we Tech-heads ought to have a place to call 'home' in the Gateworld forum as well. In so doing, we can provide 'a service' to gateworld by directing traffic, so to speak.

[immhotep]

Yeah i totally agree, this is a nice place to be, ive always like this area, more than the others because of a few reasons:
*you dont get the worst of n00b/ repeat threads, because were a more focused section
*even if you do its usually worth reading and intelligent
*the people are more open and honest
*we dont have any 'groups' like the sam/jack ships, although we tend to have two main groups, the creators and the explainers as i put them; people like me who like to create things based on stargate, like ships, weapons, power sources and people like you, owen and Wraith scientsist who explain how they would be in real life or why these things are portrayed the way they are ( much like the above discusison).

So if we can create a nice chillout zone, where people cna come and just generally discuss things, like i might bring up the topic of why different races have different hyperspace window (something that i have just done because its quite strange) and where in doing so peopel can be directed to thread where this has been discussed or mention before, then thats great. I imagine this bieng pretty great. im already subscribed!