Finally! A definitive answer on the real size of Atlantis

[Mister Oragahn]

It doesn't matter what "numbers" people come up with. The simple fact of the matter than anything less than Manhattan-size is just too freakin' small!

This is the Lost City of the Ancients, people! Not the Lost Village, Township, Hamlet, or Farmstead!

Scaling issues aside, I place full blame on the VFX people for not making the city match the dialog, which is "same size as Manhattan". Mr. Mallozzi, when he head a thread on GW, gave the same answer when I asked him.

I'm merely laughing now because it took three damn years for people to realize that the real scaling did not correspond to their interpretation of a magnificent ancient city, and that when audience asked for "incredible", I suppose, TPTB thought "barely worth noticing".

Sorry if after three years of pointless demonstration that they were simply wrong, I'm just feeling extremely amused by the situation.

A lot of you had to wait for a damn so called "official" report to finally swallow the idea that the city was within 3 km wide, when several measurements were made a long time ago and came to the same conclusion.

That's not saying that I didn't complain. If you'd seen the original sketches, drawings and CGI prototypes, you'd wonder why they settled on a villageship.
I have them sitting somewhere on an olf HDD, and it pains me to look at them, and then return to the show and see what we ended with.

A small cold, grey town, with nothing but secret rooms and seemingly identical staircases and corridors.

It always made me roll my eyes when O'Neill had hard time to buy the idea of a flying city, because when you look at Atlantis, you would notice that it was actually slightly smaller than a ship he blasted above Earth some months ago (Anubis' super ship), or slightly smaller than a terraforming ship he intended to destroy more than three years ago (the Gadmeer's ship).

At least, his words would have made more sense if the city had been 20 km large.
But I'm hardly surprised that we ended with something so disapointing.

The level of communication between writing room and the VFX dept. seeming absurdingly that low, and I'm not even talking about intercommunications within the very VFX dept. (seen the latest Ori attack on a world? It looked like a whole nation was turned into a crater when seen from space, but only corresponded to a mere camp fire been a bit wild when seen from the surface... of course, this raises the question of what would have happened if the village reintegrated in the middle of a kilometer deep crater, but that's another issue due to stupid ancient devices running on plot-juice), it's hardly surprising that if the original idea was to have Atlantis be *BIG*, yet it just ended being barely bigger than a village.

Sometimes, I just find myself either hoping for SGA to get better, or waiting for it to stop, so to let the franchise rest, and have the right people put in place instead, in a couple of years, to bring the magic back without stupid non-science, lame plot devices, and sparing the audience's intelligence being insulted every two episodes.









By the way, a hiveship is 11 km long.

EDIT:

An Aurora class warship is a little over 1 km long. From the guy responsible of the model.

[Gemini]

That info is bull****. Why? In Stargate SG1 09x20 episode, in the moment of the allied fleet engaging the ori ships, is a scene from above the ship. So, we can see that a daedalus class ship is bigger than a Ha'tak (max double size I guess, is a seizable difference). In Stargate Atlantis 02x01, we can see the Daedalus landing on Atlantis. And on that platform still remained A LOT of room. I guess those landing pads were used by the Ancients to build their mighty ships. So, if that happened, your info is very wrong.

[PG15]

The Deady is not larger than a Hatak; that SFX was screwed up.

[Mister Oragahn]

That info is bull****. Why? In Stargate SG1 09x20 episode, in the moment of the allied fleet engaging the ori ships, is a scene from above the ship. So, we can see that a daedalus class ship is bigger than a Ha'tak (max double size I guess, is a seizable difference). In Stargate Atlantis 02x01, we can see the Daedalus landing on Atlantis. And on that platform still remained A LOT of room. I guess those landing pads were used by the Ancients to build their mighty ships. So, if that happened, your info is very wrong.

No, you've just realized that they simply don't give a crap about scalings, and that a ship that is 11 km long one day will be ten times smaller the next day.

Want a list of the big ships which saw their sizes vary, depending on the necessity of impressiveness for shot's sake?
Let's have a quick list then:

Terran - Prometheus.
Terran - 304s.
Asgard - Biliskner class.
Asgard - O'Neill class.
Goa'uld - Ha'tak.
Wraith - Hiveship.
Wraith - Cruiser.

Yes, you're probably going to ask how they can't even decide, from the beginning, how big the ships they'll use for several seasons will be.
Answer is just as long as it looks nice, or feels right, no matter if it's very wrong, then it's ok.

[Halzman]

The actual model dimensions is irrelavent. What matters is how there scaled in the scene, relative to the other objects in the scene.

F-302, Death Glider, Ori Fighter, Wraith Dart - same size approx

Alkesh - somewhere inbetween 302 and 304

Promethus, BC-304 Daedulous - same size approx

Hatak, Wraith Cruiser, Aurora Class, Asgard Belinsker/Oneill/Jackson - approx same size

Ori Battlecruiser

Atlantis

Hive Ship

I'm not gonna comment on anubis flagship, because it was only scene in like 2 episode. And I beleive i've covered all the ships.

[XJamesX]

Nice models. What software is that?

Just google sketchup. I'm in the process of learning Cinema 4D so hopefully I will have some better models one day...

In Stargate Atlantis 02x01, we can see the Daedalus landing on Atlantis. And on that platform still remained A LOT of room.

If you watch closley the daedalus actually lands on the water. Although Wier says they are landing on the east pier ( I think it was the east pier) you can see the water splashing around and then the daedalus kinda sinks down a bit once it hits the water. This has been debated many times.

Mister Oragahn I love those pics. Who is the artist who did those?

-James-

[Halzman]

Just google sketchup. I'm in the process of learning Cinema 4D so hopefully I will have some better models one day...




If you watch closley the daedalus actually lands on the water. Although Wier says they are landing on the east pier ( I think it was the east pier) you can see the water splashing around and then the daedalus kinda sinks down a bit once it hits the water. This has been debated many times.

Mister Oragahn I love those pics. Who is the artist who did those?

-James-

Glad to see someone had the same idea as me in regard to ship scaling. Didnt catch your post until after I posted my responce. Love the pictures by the way lol Very cool atlanits and daedulous model.

[Freekzilla]

There's another thread that discusses this issue in more depth. Ironically, someone did a scaling by measuring each part and then zooming out to use that measurement to measure another part and then zooming out and so on. The irony comes in because the measured length of each pier is about 1.6 Km, and a total size of 3.38Km for Atlantis.

To be honest, I think this is a more accurate size figure because it is measured from actual screen caps. So despite the stated size of 1.33 Km from Bruce Woloshyn. Actually, the measured height from the screen caps and what Bruce said are very close, 610 for Bruce and 680 from the measured screen caps. So, I think it's likely that an error is being made and the claimed 1.33Km size is just for a single pier, and not from one end of one pier to the other end of the opposite pier. If the 1.33Km is meant just for the length of one pier, then the measured size and the size stated by Bruce would fit. It would also make Atlantis much larger, and able to fit the Daedalus along side one of the piers with no problem. Atlantis would then be 2.1 miles for the ENTIRE diameter, which is pretty big.

Also, the 1.33Km size was an early size estimate from Bruce, so let's give him a break if he made a mistake. The on-screen appearance does dispute the 1.33Km size after all. No body is perfect, we ALL make mistakes when estimating sizes.

[Ouroboros]

There's another good opportunity for scaling Atlantis at the end of the exploding tumours episode. There's a scene that shows McKay standing at the end of one of the peirs, then it zooms out and you can see his size relative to the size of the peir.

Just from memory it's probably going to result in a really dinky Atlantis. Like "human beings can no longer fit in the corridoors inside" dinky.

[XJamesX]

Ok I scaled my model to the 1.33K for one pier and got an overall diameter of 2.66K and then added my 450M 304 and it does appear to be a valid scale for atlantis. Alittle small for some but the 304 does fit between the piers. I also added a 6ft tall person to the image and tried to recreate the image from Sunday of McKay. that is all on the 2.66K model. One thing to think about in that image of McKay from sunday is the perspective of the camera. With no distortion to the field of view you would never be able to see the towers in the backround like in that shot. Also it is hard to get an idea of the scale because I have no buildings in my model yet. Oh and the lin ein the middle of the page is of the central tower.





-James-

[Mister Oragahn]

The actual model dimensions is irrelavent. What matters is how there scaled in the scene, relative to the other objects in the scene.

The dimensions are most relevant. It would actually help them knowing how a given ship is big or small in comparison to another.

F-302, Death Glider, Ori Fighter, Wraith Dart - same size approx

And inflated or dwarfed from an episode to another when pitted against other ships.

Example: F-302 and the Prometheus.

Alkesh - somewhere inbetween 302 and 304

That's just so damn vague.
It's like saying Earth's size lies between Mercury and Jupiter.

Promethus, BC-304 Daedulous - same size approx

Let's insist on approx.

Hatak, Wraith Cruiser, Aurora Class, Asgard Belinsker/Oneill/Jackson - approx same size

And you're wrong. An O'neill so dwarfed the Prometheus years ago, but in Camelot, they dwarfed it so it was barely bigger than a Ha'tak.

Of course, certain measurements I made had a Biliskner be 3 km long, while being clearly smaller when floating above the landing pads of Cimmeria (earlier SG-1).

The Jackson is slightly smaller than a replicator medusa ship, which itself is roughly as big as an O'neill. Yet, a shot showing a DJ against a Ha'tak "proved " the Ha'tak to be infinitely bigger.

Then there are all those instances of cruisers being either 1/3 as big as a hiveship, or less than 1/11 of those same ships.

Ori Battlecruiser

Atlantis

Hive Ship

Point?

I'm not gonna comment on anubis flagship, because it was only scene in like 2 episode. And I beleive i've covered all the ships.

And I think you completely miss the point that scales are often screwed, and that dimensions do matter, and that it doesn't stop to mere eyeballing comparison.

[Cory Holmes]

XJamesX:

Do you think you could temporarily re-scale your Atlantis model to the size of Manhattan (21km from end to end)? I wanna see how much it dwarfs the Daedalus then

[Halzman]

The dimensions are most relevant. It would actually help them knowing how a given ship is big or small in comparison to another.



And inflated or dwarfed from an episode to another when pitted against other ships.

Example: F-302 and the Prometheus.



That's just so damn vague.
It's like saying Earth's size lies between Mercury and Jupiter.



Let's insist on approx.



And you're wrong. An O'neill so dwarfed the Prometheus years ago, but in Camelot, they dwarfed it so it was barely bigger than a Ha'tak.

Of course, certain measurements I made had a Biliskner be 3 km long, while being clearly smaller when floating above the landing pads of Cimmeria (earlier SG-1).

The Jackson is slightly smaller than a replicator medusa ship, which itself is roughly as big as an O'neill. Yet, a shot showing a DJ against a Ha'tak "proved " the Ha'tak to be infinitely bigger.

Then there are all those instances of cruisers being either 1/3 as big as a hiveship, or less than 1/11 of those same ships.



Point?



And I think you completely miss the point that scales are often screwed, and that dimensions do matter, and that it doesn't stop to mere eyeballing comparison.

Forgive me for trying to divide the different Stargate ships by size, to show which ships are in the same class. Are they accurate? **** no. I'm not going to go scrammbling through episodes trying to get accurate scales of the ship. Is it doable? Yes - but is it going to be consistent throughout the sereies? Probably not - So I listed rough estimates.

[Syera]

I really hate sounding stupid, but I've never been good at math and am too lazy to find a way on the internet to do the converstions. So what does all of that mean in Miles? or feet?

http://www.convertalot.com

I use that site all the time.

[Mister Oragahn]

Forgive me for trying to divide the different Stargate ships by size, to show which ships are in the same class. Are they accurate? **** no. I'm not going to go scrammbling through episodes trying to get accurate scales of the ship. Is it doable? Yes - but is it going to be consistent throughout the sereies? Probably not - So I listed rough estimates.

Yeah, well, just don't be surprised if even rough estimates tend to be completely off by more than 200%.
Did I tell you that story about the Ha'tak in Enemies being like 8.5 km large?