Random thinkings on random things

[Captain Untouchable]

Those of you who've encountered me before (probably somewhere else, since I keep forgetting to click the forum button when I visit Gateworld...) will know what I'm like with the whole thinking thing. I tend to do it an awful lot, and very quickly. A 5-minute trip to the bathroom can help me amass enough random thoughts to fill a volume in an encyclopoedia. So you'll have to forgive the random wanderings of my mind.

Warning - I've seen everything up to and including the end of Season 9 of SG-1, and Season 2 of Atlantis, so those of you who haven't seen that far may come across spoilers in some form or another...sorry if you do.

Okay. Here we go. I started off wondering about the "Daedalus-class". In Crusade, it was officially termed as being a "304". For sad people like me, that was an exciting moment - it answered the "Is the Daedalus actually the production version of the BC-303" question. That of course raises a lot of questions of its own - if the Daedalus was the next ship to come out of Earth's shipyards, why is it so different? Obviously, it incorporates new technologies, rather than being a test-bed like the Prometheus was, but back in Season 7, in Enemy Mine, they were harvesting Naquadah so they could build more BC-303's. While the Daedalus is cool, it is, as the ship patch for the Odyssey tells us, a "Deep Space Carrier". While every navy needs its carriers, why expend all the extra resources on building the Daedalus-class, when you've already got the tools, moulds and facilities lying around to construct another BC-303? After all, from the evidence, the only real difference between the Prometheus and the Daedalus is the number of engines, the number of decks, and the number of 302's it carries. Are we going to see a mixed fleet of 303's and 304's in the future, or is the Prometheus going to go the way of the 301, and become little more than a step up towards the class above?

That brought me nicely onto the Odyssey. There are several insteresting thoughts on that subject. The fact that Captain Marks, who appeared as Lieutenant Marks aboard the Prometheus in Avalon, and as Captain Marks the helmsman/bridge guy in Ethon, went on to serve in the same position on the Odyssey was a nice continuity touch. However, the real things that leap out are on the ship patch. First off, it classifies the Odyssey as a Deep Space Carrier. Since the Daedalus, The Odyssey and the Korelev are identical in every way, it's logical to assume that the designation applies to all. Does that mean that the Odyssey and the Korelev are DSC-304's? DC-304's? Some other variation on those initials? It's also worth noting that the Odyssey bore a "USS" prefix. USS means "United States Service", so technically speaking, the Daedalus and the Prometheus could have had that applied as well, but its the first time it's been shown on screen.

The other thing that leapt out was the fact that there is a six-digit alphanumeric sequence on the patch - PB3865. That's eerily similar to a SGC planetary designation - PB3-865 seems to conform with the pattern we've seen thus far. Being the sad person that I am, I've gone through the Omnipoedia on the Gateworld site. Having two letters next to each other in a planetary designation seems a little off. However, it's not the first time it has occurred:

PAS-A81 - seen on screen, "Prisoners"
PJ2-445 - crazy plant land, "One False Step"
PT1-AA1 - seen on screen, "Prisoners"
PWW-98C - seen on screen, "Prisoners"
PX3-595 - visited by NID, "Shades of Grey"
PX3-808 - Daniel Jackson and SG-6 gated here, "A Matter of Time"
PX3-989 - Altair, "Tin Man"
PX7-377 - The "Crystal Skull" planet (supposed to be P7X - quoted wrong in "Arthur's Mantle")
PX7-455 - alternate SG-1 came from here, "Ripple Effect"
PX7-941 - Madrona, "Touchstone"
PX9-757 - Apophis' shipyards, "Upgrades"
PXY-887 - trinium planet, "Spirits"

With that in mind, is it possible that the numbers correspond to an off-world construction site for the Odyssey? It would certainly fit into the timeline. If we use 18 months as a ball-park construction time for a 304, the Daedalus would have begun construction at about the time of "Enemy Mine" (when sufficient Naquadah was obtained). It would have been constructed in a silo, a la the Prometheus. When it was finished, the Korelev could have been constructed in the same facility, and was rushed out a few months early to be given to the Russians. Meanwhile, rather than go to the lengths of digging a new silo to hide the construction of another ship, the Odyssey was built on PB3-865, where the threat of it being seen by the general public is non-existant. It could have been towed to Earth by the Asgard so that its final systems (transporters, shields, weapons, hyperdrive, etc) could have been properly integrated by the people at Area 51. That would explain why the Odyssey was in orbit in Off the Grid, rather than being sat in a silo somewhere - equivalent scenes with the Prometheus would have had the ship underground.

That begs another question. What's going on with the planetary designations? I've heard several theories, some of which make more sense than others. Some people suggest that it might be a graphical representation of the gate address - 10 numbers and 26 letters. Unfortunately, though that ties in with the Pegasus galaxy (which has 36 symbols on its gate, I believe), thats a couple short of a Milky Way address. If it is some kind of grid reference, why is it divided up into clusters of three? Normally, the numbers/letters next to each other are collected, so that something like 139 represents "square one, subsquare three, subsubsquare nine", or something along those lines. However, Stargate addresses are grouped into two sets of three. Since everything begins with a P, more or less, could that stand for "planet"? If so, are the following two digits something to do with the type of planet it is? Maybe it's based off a birds-eye view of the galaxy, so that the two digits that follow the P correspond to the X and Y components of its position, with the others being sub-grids within that?

Any theories, counter-theories, or other thoughts on my thoughts? Figured I might as well say something to someone about them for a change. Lol.

[RyantheGreat]

Some interesting thoughts, to be sure. I like the idea of an offworld construction facility. It just makes a lot of sense for many reasons, not least of which is security.

Does anyone know the gate designation for the Alpha site? Maybe that's the new shipyard?

[Jumper One]

We have the Alpha site, the Beta site, the Gamma site, maye theres a Delta site for building ships?

[pbellosom]

Since everything begins with a P, more or less, could that stand for "planet"?

Don't adresses begin with a P if they're a planet while moons have the letter M? I always assumed that was this case and I think it said so in one of the novels.

[scodid]

I'm not sure about the P being a planet and M being a moon (totally possible) but I know that Sam said in season one that the designations were based on a binary representation that the computer (the one extrapolating for planetary shift from the Abydos cartush) is giving them because Jack and Daniel had asked why give them such weird designations and not give them an actual name. Hope that makes sense and helps answer that question.

[Captain Untouchable]

The only downside I can think of with the "P for planet" thing is that most of the worlds visited in Atlantis seem to have an "M" at the start. I guess its concievable that there are a lot of habitable moons, rather than habitable planets in Pegasus; maybe that has something to do with it being a "dwarf galaxy", although I can't think of an explaination that flies for that.

If the offworld construction site was going to be anywhere, my guess is it'd be on the planet from Enemy Mine. After all, that is where we're getting all our naquadah from. If you're gonna build a ship anywhere, it makes sense that its on the planet where you've got the largest abundance of materials. I've skim-read the transcript for Enemy Mine, and unfortunately it has a designation - P3X-403. However, that doesn't mean that its the only supply of Naquadah we have. Its also possible that the Korelev was built somewhere else as well. After all, Daniel did say "I thought the next Daedalus-class ship wasn't going to be ready for over a year", or something along those lines. It seems pretty unlikely that he was referring to the Korelev when he said that - he was probably referring to the fourth 304, whatever it ends up being called. The Korelev was already in one piece pretty soon after the Odyssey was launched - I doubt she was a year from completion. Maybe the Korelev was built on P3X-403 (or perhaps even the Daedalus), and the Odyssey was on PB3-865?

A couple of other thoughts I've had. How many F-302s were deployed on the Daedalus and the Prometheus? I've been doing a bit of memory searching (not got back to re-watching all of the relevant episodes yet), but from what I've seen, the Prometheus carried twelve fighters. In Ethon, Mitchell was ordered to "Take Blue Squadron". The next shots we saw showed 5 302's leaving the starboard hangar pod, and when it cut over to the Rand control facility, a sixth 'blip' was lagging behind the rest, obviously launched after the camera had cut from the shot of Prometheus. In Avalon, there are two bits that get a tad confusing. The bandit on Mitchell's tail gets shot by another F-302, and Mitchell calls "Good shot, Redman" over the radio (I had to check a transcript for that one), but there was also (I believe) reference to Red Two (or Red "Number", certainly). Judging from the size of the Prometheus hangar deck from shots in Avalon, it stands to reason that there could be a Squadron in each; that certainly ties in with Pendergast specifying the name of the squadron (he'd have ordered Mitchell to take "the Squadron" if there was only one). Since one squadron is "Blue", "Red" seems a reasonable assumed name for the other squadron. So, it stands to reason that the Prometheus carries 2 squadrons, each with 6 fighters, making for a total of 12 F-302s.

We've only seen F-302's deployed from the Daedalus in one episode: Intruder. In that, we saw a hangar bay of epic proportions - its clearly larger than the bay on the Prometheus (as seen in Avalon), and if you look at the hangar pods from the outside, that's certainly believable from a scale perspective. I haven't re-watched the episode and counted, but my guess is that there'll be somewhere between 8 and 12 F-302s in the starboard hangar bay of the Daedalus - 12 would be good, since it matches with the Squadron sizes on the Prometheus. The only problem is that, in Intruder, McKay and Sheppard only pulled the hard drives in the starboard hangar pod, at which point the doors opened. Does that mean that only one of the hangar pods had 302s in? Is the port pod for carrying other craft, for cargo, or perhaps for repairing damaged 302s? Are the F-302s in the port pod the craft that take longer to prepare for launch, and thus have their hard drives ready-pulled? Did someone else go and pull the drives in that pod? Were there not enough F-302s ready when the Daedalus was launched (it was rushed out of dock in The Seige after all), but the compliment has since been doubled?

I like the idea that, since the Daedalus-class is a "Deep Space Carrier", it should carry more fighters than the Prometheus, and judging from the size of the hangar pods, carrying double the fighters makes sense. If six F-302s make a Squadron, then that'd mean the Daedalus and Odyssey have enough squadrons to have a "wing". It should also be noted that on Caldwell's right sleave, he has a scroll/ribbon/banner thing with "1st TFW - Snakeskinners" written on it (I think its the Snakeskinners, anyway). Presumably, TFW stands for Tactical Fighter Wing - if the Daedalus has a wing of fighters, that'd explain why Caldwell is wearing that ribbon.

Of course, the downside to the "multiple of six" theory is that, in Allies, the Daedalus launched four fighters, designated Dagger One through Dagger Four. Its possible that they only had four fighters ready to go (the "ready-5 fighters", or whatever, already fuelled and loaded), while the rest of the fighters were being fueled, armed with missiles, etc, during the course of the battle. But if Squadrons do consist of six fighters, why only have four of them ready?

That's more for now. I'm sure I'll have more...

[Captain Untouchable]

We have the Alpha site, the Beta site, the Gamma site, maye theres a Delta site for building ships?

Just a quick thought on the above. The "Alpha Site" was originally established as an evac site, for the world's brightest and best to go and restart human civilization in the event that the Goa'uld wiped out life on Earth. In the alternate universes where there was an SGA, the same concept was given the name "Beta Site".

In "Allegiance" we saw the Alpha Site for the first time, and it looked very much like an evac site, with predominantly temporary structures. The free jaffa were temporarily housed there, so it became somewhat of a refugee camp, with tents and all sorts being set up to add to what Stargate Command had already put there. When Anubis probed Jonas Quinn's mind, the Alpha Site was compramised, and they moved it to a new planet. Once again, it was a fairly temporary sort of facility, as we saw when it was attacked by a Kull Warrior in "Death Knell". It wasn't until Season 8 that they established the Alpha Site as a proper "offworld" base, as seen in "Covenant". That was built inside a mountain, to help protect it from orbital assault. It was at that point where the Alpha Site ceased to be an evac site, and became instead an offworld command post.

In "Death Knell", the survivors of the Kull Warrior attack were evacuated from the temporary Alpha Site, to the Beta Site. We haven't seen or heard of the Beta Site since, so it is possible that the Beta Site is still an evac site, or may have been converted into an offworld base of some description, a la Alpha Site.

In "The Scourge", the Gamma Site was an offworld research facility, and judging from the extent of the buildings, it had been constructed with the assistance of a starship, carrying the materials to the planet the base was established on.


The Beta Site is still somewhat of an enigma. Its possible that it has been turned into a proper base, like the Alpha Site or the Gamma Site. Alternatively, it may still remain Earth's evac site. I'd be quite concerned if the SGC hadn't established some sort of offworld site to evacuate non-military personnel to - the Alpha and Gamma sites are definately military installations, and wouldn't be all that good at helping to save the human race when the Ori or the Wraith, or someone like that comes to wipe us all out. Alternatively, it could be our illusive offworld shipyard - who knows?