Are there parallels between Origin and Christianity?

[Prior3535]

Heres some food for thought - evangelist 'charities' in the USA earn millions each year from merchandising - thus to become more powerfull, it is in their interest to promote more right-wing forms of religion that involve spending more, and to increase markets overseas by converting people.

To this end, they try to push things like creation into education, and they go to ancient countries like India and Sri Lanka, which have sophisticated belief systems of their own, and capitalise on the poverty created by European exploitation, setting up schools where it is required to convert to Christianity to attend - education is a life and death matter in poor area, making this no better that capitalising on a plague to convert people. It is of course made clear to these poor converts that they will be tortured for eternity by god if they acknolwedge any Hindu or Buddhist belief, and that those religions are 'barbaric'.

What happens when religions like Christianity and Islam, which basically promote this same kind of mentality collide? They turn to warfare, just like a fleet of Ori ships invading the galaxy.

Im not sure if this thread will be locked, but I invite you to share your views - being from one of the countries I mentioned, I am very interested to hear the opinions of Americans especially - the nation which is essentially evangelist HQ.

[rarocks24]

Uh, Creationists aren't trying to get God into the public schools, they believe that all forms of creation (evolution, intelligent design, etc) should be taught, or at least discussed (in a non-biased way). Second, you don't see Christians going around and burning embassies, lighting cars on fire, and attacking those people that insult Jesus in the media. Also, Christianity is ultimately a choice, things no other religion allows (unless you're willing to give up all your rights and live as a second class citizen).

Second, that's the thing about Christian schools: they're going to teach about Christ, so if you're not Christian, then why go to the school in the first place? As for the parallels of Christianity and Origin, there are Christians here besides me, and some would consider this offensive.

[FallenAngelII]

Uh, Creationists aren't trying to get God into the public schools, they believe that all forms of creation (evolution, intelligent design, etc) should be taught, or at least discussed (in a non-biased way). Second, you don't see Christians going around and burning embassies, lighting cars on fire, and attacking those people that insult Jesus in the media. Also, Christianity is ultimately a choice, things no other religion allows (unless you're willing to give up all your rights and live as a second class citizen).

Second, that's the thing about Christian schools: they're going to teach about Christ, so if you're not Christian, then why go to the school in the first place? As for the parallels of Christianity and Origin, there are Christians here besides me, and some would consider this offensive.

Yes, this is Christianity today. Christianity a thousand years ago was not like this. Origin is pretty much what Christianity was hundreds/thousands of years ago. No offense to the Christians of today, but they, as a people, have an evil history.

[Prior3535]

Uh, Creationists aren't trying to get God into the public schools, they believe that all forms of creation (evolution, intelligent design, etc) should be taught, or at least discussed (in a non-biased way). Second, you don't see Christians going around and burning embassies, lighting cars on fire, and attacking those people that insult Jesus in the media. Also, Christianity is ultimately a choice, things no other religion allows (unless you're willing to give up all your rights and live as a second class citizen).

Second, that's the thing about Christian schools: they're going to teach about Christ, so if you're not Christian, then why go to the school in the first place? As for the parallels of Christianity and Origin, there are Christians here besides me, and some would consider this offensive.

Unfortuantly you are very wrong on a number of counts, for example - these Christian schools are not what you think they are, possibly because you live in a country where they are an optional thing - across Asia and Africa, education means the difference between dying of hunger, and earning a small living - Christian charities that know this deliberatly go to the poorest villiages and set up schools that are essentially tickets away from slow death - in these schools, one MUST convert to Christianity to recieve an education, i.e. survive, and these uneducated folk are taught blatent lies about existing beliefs such as Hinduism and Buddhism - the same kinds of lies that Pat Robertson broadcasts all over the world on his channel, etc.

I also question how you think Christianity is a choice, both given what I have said above, and the coersion of an after-life where the Christian god allows the torture of people who see things differently to him for enternity - Christianity and Islam are the same kettle of fish.

I am non-religious, but I also find myself questioning what you said about Chistianity being the only free-choice religion - do you think Hinduism, and Buddhist arnt or something? Infact many would argue that they are far more peacefull and less coersive than the 'Abrahamic' religions, namely Christianity and Islam.

How has evangelist Christinaity changed? This seems as wrong as any inquisition to me, perhaps even worse, as it is essentially guys in suits looking for money, followed by fanatics who find comfort in religious nationalism.

To me, what the Priors do, and what evangelists do is no different. Where one creates a plague and then cures it to convert, the other blames economic hardship that was created by Christian countries on 'backward superstition' and 'cures' it.

What ethical difference is there?

What difference is there in claiming divine power from technology, and miseducating masses of people into believing that other religions are the spawn of the 'devil', and that evolution is a lie? You say that creationism should be given equal time - why should it? Should you start teaching science in churches, just to give it some equal time? The obious point there is that science is science, and religious agenda like creationism, should be left in the church where it belongs.

Second, you don't see Christians going around and burning embassies, lighting cars on fire, and attacking those people that insult Jesus in the media.

Actually I have, but perhaps the various Christian militias of the world go unnotaced wherever you live. The Naga sepratists in India, who were converted by evangelist missionaries, and then funded with weapons by the Chinese (it happens a lot), for instance want to carve their own Chistian facist state out of the largest secular democracy in the world.

After the Tsunami, I was not suprised to see missionaries decending on South India and Sri Lanka (of course they didnt go up against Islamic Indonesia, out of fear for an equally fanatical religion) - some of the first things they said were 'this is retribution from god for following pagan ways'.

And in America, after the hurricane, it seems that Christian leaders were eager to blame it on retribution for New Orleans gay population.

[rarocks24]

Are you saying that Christianity doesn't have the right to evangelize?

[Prior3535]

Are you saying that Christianity doesn't have the right to evangelize?

Yup, people can convert on their own if they want to, not be coersed by others.

Since it is a corrupt industry, it is in the legal interest of Asian countries.

And since for example, Sri Lanka, and also many other countries, are an unbroken lineage of spohisticated beliefs - to say they are 'dark lands' and go evangelise them amounts to an attack, and creates reationary groups who abrahamise their own religions in response, ruining the diversity and freedom of choice that exists within them.

It also amazes me how quickly people pass judgements on other religions without even knowing about them - whilst most Hindus and Buddhists are very familiar with Christian and Islamic belief, the vaerage followers of those religions never bother finding out about the worlds third and fourth largest religions, or any other belief system - instead there is just some sort of assumption they are demonic, just because some vicar or imam said so.

[rarocks24]

How can they convert if they don't know what the religion is about? Evangelism is merely going to countries and preaching. How are they to know about such and such without evangelism?

[Prior3535]

How can they convert if they don't know what the religion is about? Evangelism is merely going to countries and preaching. How are they to know about such and such without evangelism?

Exactly, they dont know they are being exploited, I would have thought that would have come across by now.

[Korean_Turtle87]

Yes, this is Christianity today. Christianity a thousand years ago was not like this. Origin is pretty much what Christianity was hundreds/thousands of years ago. No offense to the Christians of today, but they, as a people, have an evil history.

us asian christians did nothing though >.< ...to my knowledge at least...

but I think the Ori and Priors are like the early christians. Crusade era. And ascension...with the help of an Ancient, is more like Budhism, cause ur tryin to reach enlightenment

[Prior3535]

us asian christians did nothing though >.< ...to my knowledge at least...

but I think the Ori and Priors are like the early christians. Crusade era. And ascension...with the help of an Ancient, is more like Budhism, cause ur tryin to reach enlightenment

One problem that persists is that the holy books of Islam and Christianity still will always contain things like the assertion that the word needs to be spread, and that all other beliefs are wrong - so there will always be precident for people who read these things to take them seriously, and act like evangelists do today, and like people did during the dark ages in Europe.

Thus whilst Indian, Sri Lankan, Korean, Phillipino, etc, Christians may have never been part of that, they may one day start demanding that the biblical stories be tought in science classes, converting others in the ways I mentioned, etc.

Both Christianity in Europe, and Islam in Arabia, got popular because rulers could use it to unite tribes into states based upon godly right, whereas in Asia, states were based on secularism or confucian legalism, as in India and China. From there it was in the best interests of rulers to use the holy books to convert others, and of course brand anyone who questioned this as heretics. Nowadays, Europe has been fairly secularised, but countries that didnt experience the same reasons for becoming more secular/atheist, whether that is America's assotiation of atheism with communism in the 50s, or the Arab world's lack of any Darwinian revolution, means that those places still hold those values

In comparison, Buddhism teaches an almost agnostic form of religion, and is thus non-dogmatic, and Hinduism is so diverse because it is a collection of opinions/philosophical systems akin to that of ancient Greece, which are not intended as dogma, and range from atheism to theism. They deliberatly dont convert, congragate into gang mentality, or have an orginised priesthood that is vulnerable to curruption.

P.S. I like the Yourichi picture, good to see some bleach fans around ;-)

[FallenAngelII]

Are you saying that Christianity doesn't have the right to evangelize?

The thing is that what the Church is doing in Asia in the name of God is wrong. The are reports of children practically brainwashed by missionaries. They also pose as charity workers but, while at the same time indoctrining people into their religion.

If you're gonna do something for charity, do it without requirements. Charity for all! Sure, do it in the name of God. But don't require people to convert.

There are horror stories of parents who haven't been kept from speaking to their children once they've enrolled them into a Christian school in Asia.

Not to mention how Christians are always trolling around where people are dying. Or trolling around prisons counseling prisoners, especially those on Death row, to convert and to find God, that he'll forgive you and yaddi yaddi yadda. If someone's gonna convert, they're gonna do it out of their own free will.

Don't go there when they're scared and about to die or injured in the hospital dying and preach about how God will accept them if they just accept him. People under pressure, especially when they are dying, will do anything.

Homer: (about to be trampeled by rhinos) "Jesus, Buddha, Allah, I love you all!"

And this is today. A few hundred years ago, there were the crusades. A few thousand years ago, back in the Old Testament (ergo Judaism), anyone who tried to convert a Christian was a legal murder victim because it said so in the Bible that if anyone tried to convert you, be it in their city, your city or them a member of your own family, you should KILL them and their blood would be on their heads.

Wow. What a hypocritical fairytale the Bible is.

[rarocks24]

The thing is that what the Church is doing in Asia in the name of God is wrong. The are reports of children practically brainwashed by missionaries. They also pose as charity workers but, while at the same time indoctrining people into their religion.

If you're gonna do something for charity, do it without requirements. Charity for all! Sure, do it in the name of God. But don't require people to convert.

There are horror stories of parents who haven't been kept from speaking to their children once they've enrolled them into a Christian school in Asia.

Not to mention how Christians are always trolling around where people are dying. Or trolling around prisons counseling prisoners, especially those on Death row, to convert and to find God, that he'll forgive you and yaddi yaddi yadda. If someone's gonna convert, they're gonna do it out of their own free will.

Don't go there when they're scared and about to die or injured in the hospital dying and preach about how God will accept them if they just accept him. People under pressure, especially when they are dying, will do anything.

Homer: (about to be trampeled by rhinos) "Jesus, Buddha, Allah, I love you all!"

And this is today. A few hundred years ago, there were the crusades. A few thousand years ago, back in the Old Testament (ergo Judaism), anyone who tried to convert a Christian was a legal murder victim because it said so in the Bible that if anyone tried to convert you, be it in their city, your city or them a member of your own family, you should KILL them and their blood would be on their heads.

Wow. What a hypocritical fairytale the Bible is.

WTF?! Uh, there weren't Christians in the Old Testament. The Old Testament stops about after Alexander conquers the known world. Get your facts straight.

And please provide links to your statements.

[FallenAngelII]

Actually, if you read closely, I said "Ergo, Judaism".

EDIT: Hmm... I did the mistake of writing "Christian" after that. I apologize.
EDIT 2: I'm not saying all missionaries are bad. But a great number of them are the Church doesn't really care about stopping them.

[Prior3535]

The thing is that what the Church is doing in Asia in the name of God is wrong. The are reports of children practically brainwashed by missionaries. They also pose as charity workers but, while at the same time indoctrining people into their religion.

If you're gonna do something for charity, do it without requirements. Charity for all! Sure, do it in the name of God. But don't require people to convert.

There are horror stories of parents who haven't been kept from speaking to their children once they've enrolled them into a Christian school in Asia.

Not to mention how Christians are always trolling around where people are dying. Or trolling around prisons counseling prisoners, especially those on Death row, to convert and to find God, that he'll forgive you and yaddi yaddi yadda. If someone's gonna convert, they're gonna do it out of their own free will.

Don't go there when they're scared and about to die or injured in the hospital dying and preach about how God will accept them if they just accept him. People under pressure, especially when they are dying, will do anything.

Homer: (about to be trampeled by rhinos) "Jesus, Buddha, Allah, I love you all!"

And this is today. A few hundred years ago, there were the crusades. A few thousand years ago, back in the Old Testament (ergo Judaism), anyone who tried to convert a Christian was a legal murder victim because it said so in the Bible that if anyone tried to convert you, be it in their city, your city or them a member of your own family, you should KILL them and their blood would be on their heads.

Wow. What a hypocritical fairytale the Bible is.

Yeh, thats the sort of stuff I am on about - thanks for understanding.

If Christian charity really was just charity, there would be no problem, unfortunatly, apart from some liberal English Anglicans and stuff, 99% of these charities, etc, are like how you described.

I guess from the comments that rarocks24 said, that most people dont know that this even happens.

But then, even if things werent this bad, is preaching itself any better if the target is ignorant of any other option, including his/her ancestors beliefs?

Isnt conversion wrong because missionaries dont present an equal amount of information on every religion, leading to free (i.e. informed) choice?

Irrelevent of the way most evangelising in Asia, Africa and the Carribean is as bad as described, I think conversion is wrong, period. Gandhi himself, whilst advocating non-violence and secular tolerance for all beliefs, saw conversion as an evil, as why should one religion that believe in conversion be free to proliferate purposely against one that dosent have any intentions of converting others, as it sees such proliferation as morally wrong?

I guess this question is only worth considering once all missionary work is indeed harmless - right now it isnt, and in countries like Sri Lanka, Korea, India, etc, we are obliged by our free and democratic society to accept missionaries - leaving the only way people can react to this exploiation is to become violent themselves, as Hindu and Buddhist groups sometimes do these days.

Sure, do it in the name of God.

Even this may be too far, afterall, shouldnt charity always be purely for the benefit of others, and not any other agenda? Hinduism eloquently for example says that one who gives charity must not expect anything in return - doing it in the name of god at all is probably too far and leaves open the sort of vicious and violent Origin-like exploitation that we have mentioned.

Thus when donating to charity, I always donate either directly to the government, or to an atheist/humanist orginisation.

[contact2918]

Don't confuse real Christianity with what some people pass off as it. Real Christianity is about a relationship with Jesus Christ, entered into by a person's own God-given free will. It is not about the religious dogma that some use as a poor substitute because they simply don't know any better.