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Why is there a Point of Origin?

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    #31
    Originally posted by NoDot
    Why is there a PoO? Because it was in the movie.

    Pragmatically? There is no pragmatics to bothering with the PoO!

    No one's seemed to have noticed this, but the PoO is THE GATE! There is no reason for there to be a PoO, as the origin is the GATE!

    Making someone dial a PoO is redundant and idiotic, as the gate can clearly calculate its own location relative to the other gates, or else you'd need to dial 12 coordinates.
    Wrong. The 'pragmatic' reason for dialing the point of origin symbol is tell the gate that you've finished entering in coordinates and to execute the wormhole activation. Not all stargate addresses use just 6 locator points. Extra-galactic stargate addresses use an extra 7th locator symbol in the address. If, by some chance, a stargate in our galaxy had the same exact first 6 symbols as a gate in another galaxy's address, and you were trying to reach the extra-galactic gate, then when you began dialing the address the gate would automatically activate after you put in the 6th symbol and you'd never get to the extra-galactic gate. That is why you need the PoO symbol. To tell the gate your done dialing, and to go ahead and activate the wormhole. Otherwise, the gate could activate to early and you'd never be able to reach the gate in the other galaxy.
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      #32
      Originally posted by Seastallion
      Wrong. The 'pragmatic' reason for dialing the point of origin symbol is tell the gate that you've finished entering in coordinates and to execute the wormhole activation. Not all stargate addresses use just 6 locator points. Extra-galactic stargate addresses use an extra 7th locator symbol in the address. If, by some chance, a stargate in our galaxy had the same exact first 6 symbols as a gate in another galaxy's address, and you were trying to reach the extra-galactic gate, then when you began dialing the address the gate would automatically activate after you put in the 6th symbol and you'd never get to the extra-galactic gate. That is why you need the PoO symbol. To tell the gate your done dialing, and to go ahead and activate the wormhole. Otherwise, the gate could activate to early and you'd never be able to reach the gate in the other galaxy.
      That argument only works when dialing manually. The DHD has the "Big Red Button" that you push.
      This poster has a Superiority Complex. Apologies in advance.

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        #33
        Originally posted by NoDot
        That argument only works when dialing manually. The DHD has the "Big Red Button" that you push.
        Well, then the PoO tells with gate you're using...
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          #34
          Originally posted by NoDot
          That argument only works when dialing manually. The DHD has the "Big Red Button" that you push.
          DHDs aren't supossed to have POO symbols on them...
          Warning: This post may not be meant to be taken seriously.
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            #35
            Originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat
            DHDs aren't supossed to have POO symbols on them...
            But they do!
            http://rdanderson.com/stargate/glyphs/glyphs.htm
            S.T.A.K.S. if you think kirking stinks...

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              #36
              Originally posted by Wildrat
              I know...
              Warning: This post may not be meant to be taken seriously.
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                #37
                Originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat
                I know...
                Oh...
                S.T.A.K.S. if you think kirking stinks...

                Jackson: Earth minutes?
                Mitchell: Yeah, I've always wanted to say that.
                Vala: Well, now you have.


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                  #38
                  Its there for decoration, it's serves no practical purpose, just like with the Pegasus gates having blue chevrons instead of orange.

                  Other than that it's to increase the unlikeliness that 'young' civilisations will use the gate and get into trouble.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by TPL2005
                    Its there for decoration, it's serves no practical purpose, just like with the Pegasus gates having blue chevrons instead of orange.

                    Other than that it's to increase the unlikeliness that 'young' civilisations will use the gate and get into trouble.
                    Quite plausable... This discussion kind of proves your statement...
                    S.T.A.K.S. if you think kirking stinks...

                    Jackson: Earth minutes?
                    Mitchell: Yeah, I've always wanted to say that.
                    Vala: Well, now you have.


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                      #40
                      Having the point of origin in the movie made more sense as they were right when you need a starting destination to plot a course especially in a universe that is constantly in motion.
                      Knowing merely where the end destination is useless unless you know where you are in relation to it.
                      In overly simplistic terms the transmitting gate needs to know which way to point the wormhole to make a connection.
                      But then there are alot of discrepancies between the movie and the series. I dont know if any one else noticed but in the movie they were actually dialing another galaxy so by the series logic should have been an eight simbal address. The series however has changed a lot of the things from the movie as demonstrated by this debate.
                      But as has already been mentioned having the seventh simbal on a DHD is daft why not let it do the necessary calculations when the main actvation button is pressed. But there's been that many inconsistancies in the show regarding stargates in general that I wouldn't even begin to speculate why DHD's have a PoO
                      Last edited by Gate Master; 16 January 2006, 09:29 AM.

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                        #41
                        The issue isn't why do you need A point of origin, it's how does a single symbol, which is static no matter where in the galaxy the gate is taken, constitute a PoO.
                        "For now, you are in need of food and rest, and I am in need of armor"

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by ItsDan
                          The issue isn't why do you need A point of origin, it's how does a single symbol, which is static no matter where in the galaxy the gate is taken, constitute a PoO.
                          The way I understood the initial thread was why do we need the symbol as the gate should beable to connect with out it. If ive misunderstood it then I apologise.
                          From what I have understood from the series, even tho the symbol is static I assumed it was constantly updated along with all the other co-ordinance through the corralitive updates. Plus if it hadn't been for the eps where they used stargates on ships I would have assumed that when a stargate is placed on a planet it had to be calibrated for those particular co-ordinance, ie 6 symbols for that planet made in to 1 the picture being irrelevant of course.
                          I can only speculate with the ship eps tho but perhaps those gates were tied in to the navigational systems on the ships by function on the goauld ship and by automated convieniance on the asgard.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Seastallion
                            In short... you don't know what your talking about. There is no "operational range" for the Stargate. As long as it has enough power to reach the address your trying to dial, it will work no matter where it is.
                            Way to take a statement out of context... We are talking about the Point of Origin here, right?

                            Originally posted by Seastallion
                            The Stargate Address deals with an entire star system, not a single planet. The Stargate on Earth could be on Pluto, Mercury, or the Moon, and someone dialing to our stargate would still be able to activate it.
                            Which is the point I was originally trying to make: Points of Origin have an operational range. When you dial another planet, the destination gate attracts the wormhole to it like electricity is attracted from positive to negative. What happens if you seperate two electrodes too much? The electricity can no longer arc between them, and it stops working. That is the operational range; the distance a stargate can migrate from its original address before it no longer works.

                            If you take the volume of the Milky Way and divide by the maximum number of possible gate addresses, you end up with a volume of ~105,000 cubic light years per Stargate.
                            If you then consider that volume is contained in a sphere, you end up with a radius of ~30 light years, which means a star can migrate up to ~30 light years before a correlative update is required (I'm assuming that a stars orbit around the center of the galaxy is already part of the equation, otherwise the entire system breaks down).
                            So, not only does the point of origin cover an entire solar system, it would cover any solar system that was within ~30 light years of any gate. That means you can't put gates on worlds closer together than that, because an incoming wormhole would have two or more potential destinations (as shown in Solitudes and Watergate).

                            Since all of the available gate addresses are most likely not being used, it means there are vast expanses of space that have no gates at all. That in turn allows gate systems to migrate around quite a bit without bumping into each other.

                            Originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat
                            DHDs aren't supossed to have POO symbols on them...
                            You're right, they're not supposed to be on the DHD. There are only 38 symbols on the DHD, and of course if the PoO is put on there, then you need 39. Usually they replace the Aquila symbol with the PoO of choice. I'm guessing this was a production afterthought.
                            If they were going to originally use the PoO on the DHD, they would have had it painted on the BRB.

                            Originally posted by ItsDan
                            The issue isn't why do you need A point of origin, it's how does a single symbol, which is static no matter where in the galaxy the gate is taken, constitute a PoO.
                            I think the point of origin and the address probably represent the same thing for different purposes.

                            The address is a galactic means of orientation; the PoO is probably something like that, but for gate orientation. Stuff like orbital characteristics, revolution period, stellar migration, etc. By sending the PoO symbol, you're telling the destination DHD/Gate where you're dialing from relative to your gate address.

                            While this doesn't seem all that important, if your gate hasn't been used in a few thousand (or million) years, the DHD information on your gate would be out of date. It might be impossible to dial back home, because your home gate migrated beyond the 30 light year limit, and now the DHD can't connect back.
                            So, by giving the destination gate your PoO, you're telling it "this is where I am now; update my location before I come there so I can dial home".
                            Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

                            1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

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                              #44
                              So, not only does the point of origin cover an entire solar system, it would cover any solar system that was within ~30 light years of any gate. That means you can't put gates on worlds closer together than that, because an incoming wormhole would have two or more potential destinations


                              Isn't Abydos closer than that?
                              "For now, you are in need of food and rest, and I am in need of armor"

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                                #45
                                First off, this thread is about, why is there a point of origin, right?

                                You have six symbols that calculate were you are going in space. Then the seven symbol is the point of origin wich means were you are coming from. So with out he point of origin the wormhole will not connect because it doesn't know were it is connecting to. It's pretty self explanitory.

                                Daniel used the Gate on Apophis's ship by dialing a planet and then using Earth as the point of origin because he was Earths orbit. So yes you do need to be by a planet to gate. Daniel says this. Not the hole need a planet thing but using Earth as the point of origin he was able to dial out. It's like plotting a course. On Earth you would only need Lon. and lat. to know were you are going. But in order to plot a course you need to know were you are.

                                Six symbols = were you are going
                                seventh symbols = were you are starting from.


                                And what does caller ID have to do with anything and what is PoO?
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