Why is there a Point of Origin?

[Seastallion]

Then that defeats the purpose of a correlative update, which is to change those values.

If Earth's gate had recieved the same code as the other gates, then Earth would've been as cut off as the rest of the system. The fact otherwise proves that gates without DHDs are unaffected by those updates.

*sigh* No. It doesn't. I'm not sure you actually know what the coorelative updates are for. Each of the 38 coordinate symbols have a geo-numeric value that applies to a three dimensional X,Y,Z coordinates grid that uses a pan galactic standered, used by all stargates. The individual coordinate symbols actual counterparts in real space are constantly moving. The Stargate uses a targeting system that needs a relatively precise measurement to direct a wormhole to the proper coordinates. However, since those coordinates in real space are constantly moving, the coordinate symbol values which represent them, have to be adjusted in relation to them.

The reason neither Ba'al's Stargate nor Earth's stargate was affected was because the Avenger virus didn't affect the stargate themselves, only their DHD's. As was explained on 'Avenger 2.0', it is like switching all the keys on a keyboard around. The coordinate symbol values were still correct, but their counterpart buttons on the DHD were all switched around. So anyone using a DHD to dial out, would always be dialing the wrong address, even if they physically hit all the keys on the DHD correctly. The only DHD that wasn't affected was Ba'al's DHD, because he knew which keys had been substituted. Also, since Earth doesn't use a DHD, the Earth stargate couldn't be affected.

You see?

[Hybridbabe]

I always took the PoO to be like this:

You need to go to a gate on another planet in the solar system. So, you plug in that gate address in, and then you put in the PoO. That PoO allows the Stargate technology to try and make a connection to another gate via gauging the distance between the other planet you're trying to go to (the first 6 symbols) and where you are now. If the energy output is sufficient enough and the gate is not too far away, then the wormhole will open. If not, it won't, and the dial-up sequence is halted and aborted.

And the PoO is relative to WHERE YOU ARE, meaning that if you're going from Earth to Abydos (for example), Earth would be your origin. If you're going in the reverse, then Abydos would be the origin. I think each time you dial the gate, it creates an entirely NEW wormhole from one place to another (it's not part of a "hub" of wormholes that opens and closes in space if you tell them to). The PoO helps you establish if it's possible to have each of the gates connect.


(Does any of that make sense? I'm not a science/physics major, so I don't know.... then again, I'm not a Stargate major either lol)

[Seastallion]

I always took the PoO to be like this:

You need to go to a gate on another planet in the solar system. So, you plug in that gate address in, and then you put in the PoO. That PoO allows the Stargate technology to try and make a connection to another gate via gauging the distance between the other planet you're trying to go to (the first 6 symbols) and where you are now. If the energy output is sufficient enough and the gate is not too far away, then the wormhole will open. If not, it won't, and the dial-up sequence is halted and aborted.

And the PoO is relative to WHERE YOU ARE, meaning that if you're going from Earth to Abydos (for example), Earth would be your origin. If you're going in the reverse, then Abydos would be the origin. I think each time you dial the gate, it creates an entirely NEW wormhole from one place to another (it's not part of a "hub" of wormholes that opens and closes in space if you tell them to). The PoO helps you establish if it's possible to have each of the gates connect.


(Does any of that make sense? I'm not a science/physics major, so I don't know.... then again, I'm not a Stargate major either lol)

Hello friend...

Yes, your point of origin IS always where you start your journey from. However, in terms of gate operating procedures, the PoO is unique to individual stargates. All stargates have 39 symbols on them, one of which is the Point of Origin. The DHD's only have the normal 38 symbols that are common to all stargates.

I'm afraid that some of your notions regarding stargate operating procedures is a bit off. Of course there are no permenant wormholes. They are formed as needed. However, the Stargates themselves are fixed on specific locations. One of the really major notions you have wrong is that you can use the stargate to go to another planet in the same solar system. You can't. The Stargate ONLY works at interstellar distances, not intrastellar. On the other hand, a Ring Transporter could be used to travel from Earth to the Moon. However, that is a seperate technology from the Stargate itself.

If you'd like to know more of the specifics, I recommend going backwards through this thread to some of my earlier post.

[AscendedWarrior]

The PoO is for caller id. We just haven't managed to translate it to stargate symbols. But the gate still receive the information, thats why we could bypass the failsafe in Red Sky, we sent a false number.

Also you put it in when you have entered the right combination of symbols, so you don't dial a 7 symbol adress when you in fact tried to dial a 8 symbol long adress.

[Gate Master]

*sigh* No. It doesn't. I'm not sure you actually know what the coorelative updates are for. Each of the 38 coordinate symbols have a geo-numeric value that applies to a three dimensional X,Y,Z coordinates grid that uses a pan galactic standered, used by all stargates. The individual coordinate symbols actual counterparts in real space are constantly moving. The Stargate uses a targeting system that needs a relatively precise measurement to direct a wormhole to the proper coordinates. However, since those coordinates in real space are constantly moving, the coordinate symbol values which represent them, have to be adjusted in relation to them.

The reason neither Ba'al's Stargate nor Earth's stargate was affected was because the Avenger virus didn't affect the stargate themselves, only their DHD's. As was explained on 'Avenger 2.0', it is like switching all the keys on a keyboard around. The coordinate symbol values were still correct, but their counterpart buttons on the DHD were all switched around. So anyone using a DHD to dial out, would always be dialing the wrong address, even if they physically hit all the keys on the DHD correctly. The only DHD that wasn't affected was Ba'al's DHD, because he knew which keys had been substituted. Also, since Earth doesn't use a DHD, the Earth stargate couldn't be affected.

You see?

I haven't watched the avenger ep for a while but if I remember didn't they try a manual dial which also failed. If they did then that suggests that even tho the gate receices the update, that it requires the DHD to program the gate.
Also thinking back to when they were searching for Keb didn't Bratak mention that the initial legend took place on one of the few mining planets with in a system. This infers that gates are placed on more than one planet in a solar system although it wasn't mention if you could travel within the system through the gate network as it could be the equivelent of having two gates on one planet although they did actually appear to have different co-ordinance. Aside from two gates on one planet I dont recall any specific distance mentioned in the show that must exist before you can place another gate, and then there's the using of the same six symbols in a different order which has been introduced on Atlantis and perhaps this is related. But what are your thoughts on this?

[AscendedWarrior]

They never said all of the mining planets had stargates, they could easily have transported all the ore to one planet with a stargate within the system.

[Gate Master]

They never said all of the mining planets had stargates, they could easily have transported all the ore to one planet with a stargate within the system.

I agree and thats one thing that sometimes niggles me about the show when they're vague on things that we would really like clarification on. They did mention the word systom tho and brought up a short list of gate addresses but they may even have being using the word system in an entirely different context.

[LORD MONK]

Do you people no what Caller ID is? Caller ID is so when I call someone the other person knows I am calling before he picks up the phone. You don't need Caller ID to work a phone. Although, you do need the PoO to work the Stargate because it is the Point in Space that You are Traveling from. Juat like a cell phone. It has a chip in it to tell it what satalite to use because it sends a signal and then their is communication.

[ItsDan]

Going all the way back to the beginning of the series, they explained not being able to make connections to other gates because their dialing program didn't account for planetary drift. Seems the dialing system must do SOMETHING besides just spin the wheel. The gate may just use the last known 'good' set of data it has when dialed manually.

[AscendedWarrior]

Do you people no what Caller ID is? Caller ID is so when I call someone the other person knows I am calling before he picks up the phone. You don't need Caller ID to work a phone. Although, you do need the PoO to work the Stargate because it is the Point in Space that You are Traveling from. Juat like a cell phone. It has a chip in it to tell it what satalite to use because it sends a signal and then their is communication.

Well you can't choose if you want to receive a incoming wormhole, like on a phone. But if you have an iris and caller id you can choose not to open it. And the only reason you need the PoO is to know when the adress ends, why would the other gate need to know from where you were dialing from?

[LORD MONK]

Well you can't choose if you want to receive a incoming wormhole, like on a phone. But if you have an iris and caller id you can choose not to open it. And the only reason you need the PoO is to know when the adress ends, why would the other gate need to know from where you were dialing from?

Because I can take that same gate and take it to another planet. That gate does not know where it is.
Daniel explains this very good in lamens terms in the movie. And then Carter explains why we could only reach Abydos in "Children of the Gods". Remember people, she make up a program that caclulates planetary drift.

Bottom line: You need a point of origin to get the Stargate to work. That is why they needed Daniel in the first place. It is NOT like using a phone and a phone doesn't need Caller ID. all caller ID does is tells the person who is being called who is calling. So stop refuring the gate system to a telephone system. And if you don't think you need the PoO then go make a wormhole from hear to the moon.

[ItsDan]

Because I can take that same gate and take it to another planet. That gate does not know where it is.

The confusion comes in that you'd be giving it the same symbol regardless of what planet the gate was moved to, so the PoO doesn't tell the gate where it is.

[Seldini]

So stop refuring the gate system to a telephone system. And if you don't think you need the PoO then go make a wormhole from hear to the moon.

What?? You didn't think this out at all... there's no stargate on the moon... wtf does that prove? The point is that the 7th symbol, the PoO, provides NO necessary knowledge for the dialing process, the same 6 symbols dialed from any gate will reach the same gate... what does the PoO change?

[rarocks24]

Having the point of origin in the movie made more sense as they were right when you need a starting destination to plot a course especially in a universe that is constantly in motion.
Knowing merely where the end destination is useless unless you know where you are in relation to it.
In overly simplistic terms the transmitting gate needs to know which way to point the wormhole to make a connection.
But then there are alot of discrepancies between the movie and the series. I dont know if any one else noticed but in the movie they were actually dialing another galaxy so by the series logic should have been an eight simbal address. The series however has changed a lot of the things from the movie as demonstrated by this debate.
But as has already been mentioned having the seventh simbal on a DHD is daft why not let it do the necessary calculations when the main actvation button is pressed. But there's been that many inconsistancies in the show regarding stargates in general that I wouldn't even begin to speculate why DHD's have a PoO

They weren't dialing another galaxy. In fact its been established that Abydos is in the Milky Way. The reason for the inconsistency is due to planetary drift and the constant motion of the galaxy and universe. Abydos is on the far side of the galaxy.

Also, the only reason I could see for the Stargate on the other side needing the point of origin is perhaps to establish a two way connection. But that doesn't happen, so why do you need the PoO?

[ItsDan]

Abydos is on the far side of the galaxy.

Actually it's one of if not THE closest gate in the network to Earth. That's why they were trying to jump to Abydos when Anubis had their gate tied up, it required the least amount of power to get to, being so close. That's also why they were able to reach it without a DHD or their own planetary drift calculator, the effects are smaller between close gates.