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  1. #1
    Chief Master Sergeant Seldini's Avatar
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    Default Why is there a Point of Origin?

    I was thinking about this while trying to answer another question. I understand the concept of having to have 7 points to plot a course, 6 for the destination and one for the origin, as explained in the movie. But why did the Ancients even have a Point of Origin?

    The gate dialing is much like that of a telephone, you dial a number, and no matter where you're calling from, you will connect to the same phone. It doesn't matter where the origin is. So if the first 6 symbols give you the destination of a gate, and those symbols will connect you to the same stargate no matter where the wormhole originates from, why would you bother to even have a Point of Origin symbol? It changes nothing about the wormhole connection and only complicates the process (as seen in the movie).

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Second Lieutenant AsgardCarnage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    the only reason i can think of that you would need an origin is from an external refrence frame. But then why wouldn't it be another 6 digit coord system unless the dhd automaticly knows the 6 digits for its orign. but that dosn't explain why the symbol would be diffrent everywhere. Is the origin symbol diffrent everywhere?


    maybe you need to know the orign because the 2 gates make the worm hole together, each supplying half the power if they can and one gating supplying all the power if it has to. like building a tunnel u dont dig the whole way u start from both ends and have them meet in the middle.

    so the stargate sends the other gate via subspace or what ever a command to start building a wormhole to the coords giving from the point of origin and the origin stargate does the same. and each gate supplies enough power to meet somewhere in the middle and once it is connected then either gate can take over supplying the power to maintain the wormhole

  3. #3
    Deanna Troi Qasim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Caller ID?
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  4. #4
    Chief Master Sergeant Seldini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qasim
    Caller ID?
    Good thought, but you don't have a PoO when you make a phone call and the phone system figures out which number the call is coming from to display for caller ID, I would assume the massively advanced Ancient gate system would be able to do the same. Besides, we don't have much evidence of the gate system having much of a caller ID. Only example I can think of is the Atlantis gate being locked from all gates except for Earth.

  5. #5
    Deanna Troi Qasim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Anyone know when caller ID became popular? if it was after the film then it may still be a valid argument I think
    gumboYaYa: you are all beautiful, your words and openness are what make that shine. don't forget how much talent love and beauty you all have. so for now, peace love love love more love and happy, and thank you, thank you, thank you
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  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant AsgardCarnage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    who says we dont have a PoO on opur phones? thats not a valid comparison there is a huge infostructure behind our phone systems going via an exchange that knows all our info for billing purposes, its the exchange (my guess i dont know) that tells the called ID who is calling

    the stargates seem to be more like how radios or something works where it just puts it out there and what ever able to recive it does no infostructure needed

  7. #7
    Chief Master Sergeant Insipid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    To go anywhere you need a Point A [Departure] and a Point B [Destination], you know, you need to be somewhere to go some place else. The Point of Origin is required to make a connection to The Point of... Destination.

    To continue with the analogy, and to rip of Daniel Jackson's explanation of The Point of Origin from Stargate: The Movie; imagine that there is a string. The first end is where we are [Point of Origin] and the second end is where we want to go.

    I could explain it better, but it's 7:41 AM and I have yet to sleep tonight. Sorry.

  8. #8
    Second Lieutenant Wildrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Insipid
    To go anywhere you need a Point A [Departure] and a Point B [Destination], you know, you need to be somewhere to go some place else. The Point of Origin is required to make a connection to The Point of... Destination.

    To continue with the analogy, and to rip of Daniel Jackson's explanation of The Point of Origin from Stargate: The Movie; imagine that there is a string. The first end is where we are [Point of Origin] and the second end is where we want to go.

    I could explain it better, but it's 7:41 AM and I have yet to sleep tonight. Sorry.

    Very good explanation...

    And the symboles in the adress isn't like our phonenumbers. They represent different stars or combination of stars and combined they plot where in space the gate you want to go to is. So the six first symboles triangulate the gate you want to go to and the seventh tells the system where you are.
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  9. #9
    First Lieutenant Three PhDs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Insipid
    To go anywhere you need a Point A [Departure] and a Point B [Destination], you know, you need to be somewhere to go some place else. The Point of Origin is required to make a connection to The Point of... Destination.
    It's not really needed. A point of origin would only be needed to differentiate one trip to a location from another trip to that same location.

    Now with added lesbians.

  10. #10
    Second Lieutenant TrustNo1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    They are artificially creating a wormhole so maybe the physics behind it dictates that the wormhole needs the information from where to start and where to end.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Perhaps the reason the gates need a PoO unlike our modern telephone system is that there is no SWITCHBOARD for the gate system. Each gate is independant of the other (with occasional coordinate updates passing between DHD's).

    Technically, our phones do use a PoO, but the switchboard at your phone company provides it (that's how caller ID works...the phone company looks at your outgoing call, determines who the call is from for billing purposes, and passes the call and the origin identifier on to the other party). With no switchboard for the stargate system, each gate must provide it on its own.

    Since you can't establish a wormhole without the seven coordinates (whether it be for reasons on the receiving OR sending end), the gate coordinates must include where you're dialing from.

  12. #12
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    There are two different systems at work here:

    The first is being able to dial coordinates. 6 symbols representing X1,Y1,Z1,X2,Y2,Z2, their convergence in the center is your destination.

    The second is a PoO being identified as gate coordinates. After you dial your address, you put in the PoO. The destination gate has to be able to understand what that symbol means; which address you're dialing from.

    So, that gives us four possible ways to dial a gate.

    The first would require a person enter 12 symbol addresss; the first 6 would be the destination, and the second 6 would be the point of origin.

    The second would require a person enter 2 symbols; the first would be the PoO of the destination planet, and the second would be the PoO from the planet you're leaving.
    The problem with this is that there would literally be thousands of symbols on a DHD, and being able to differentiate two symbols out of thousands might be a bit tricky.

    The third would be dialing the PoO of the destination gate, and then entering a 6 symbol address for the planet you're leaving (the exact opposite of how it works in the series).

    The fourth dialing option is dialing 6 symbols for the destination address, and a single symbol for the PoO. This is what they use in the show, because it's straight forward and doesn't require alot of thought or button pushing.


    In any case, the way the coordinate system in the series doesn't work out. You can't use constellations for the Z (distance) coordinate.
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  13. #13
    Second Lieutenant Wildrat's Avatar
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    DHD Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin
    The first is being able to dial coordinates. 6 symbols representing X1,Y1,Z1,X2,Y2,Z2, their convergence in the center is your destination.


    In any case, the way the coordinate system in the series doesn't work out. You can't use constellations for the Z (distance) coordinate.
    Is that explained somewhere in the series or the film? I don't remember... It makes no sense to use constellations to calculate distance *confused*

    I would think the PoO is used instead of a distance calculation... Six coordinates to establish where you want to go and PoO to establish where you are coming from, no matter the distance...
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    The PoO is really 'extra'. It was added in the movie to give Daniel the ability to solve the puzzle. They abandoned a few things from the movie. In one episode they mentioned you could identify the PoO by looking for the unique symbol on the gate. In the movie, all the symbols were unique to each gate.

    But yes, really you'd need 12 symbols for a true PoO->Destination. 6 to establish destination, 6 for the origin. As an example, why couldn't the gate have 6 points for the PoO, and 1 for the destination. It's similar logic. The PoO is always "here".

    I think the best answer was a sort of caller-id. Remember, Janus told time-traveling Weir that the gate would only accept travelers from Earth.

  15. #15
    Stargate: Horizon Concept Artist TechnoWraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seldini
    I was thinking about this while trying to answer another question. I understand the concept of having to have 7 points to plot a course, 6 for the destination and one for the origin, as explained in the movie. But why did the Ancients even have a Point of Origin?

    The gate dialing is much like that of a telephone, you dial a number, and no matter where you're calling from, you will connect to the same phone. It doesn't matter where the origin is. So if the first 6 symbols give you the destination of a gate, and those symbols will connect you to the same stargate no matter where the wormhole originates from, why would you bother to even have a Point of Origin symbol? It changes nothing about the wormhole connection and only complicates the process (as seen in the movie).

    Any thoughts?
    The phone has a point of origin, you know. YOUR HOUSE. When you dial a number, you're providing two pieces of information: the phone dialed and the point of origin (you don't physically provide this info, but the phone network does).

    In 3 dimensional space, it workds similarly. You need to know where you're coming from as well as where you're heading.
    Last edited by TechnoWraith; January 13th, 2006 at 10:11 AM. Reason: What's the number for 9-1-1 again?

  16. #16
    Second Lieutenant zer0_1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    does anyone remember the fact that sam said all planets are moving away form the centre of the galaxy?
    maybe thats what it is needed for, to tell the system you are here, if a planet with a gate moves close by to another planet with a gate, the system may get confused

    if i remember from the season 2 opener, daniel escaped form apohis' ship using the gate, but since it was in earths orbit, it became earths 3rd gate, using the PoO he was able to escape

    the analogy is the same as my planet thing, just with a goauld ship

  17. #17
    Lieutenant Colonel The Signal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by zer0_1
    does anyone remember the fact that sam said all planets are moving away form the centre of the galaxy?
    maybe thats what it is needed for, to tell the system you are here, if a planet with a gate moves close by to another planet with a gate, the system may get confused
    I agree, it is likely to allow the system to update for spacial drift
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  18. #18
    Second Lieutenant Wildrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Been reading about old episodes and found out that the PoO is vital when there are several gates in the same place. The first six chevrons tells the gatesystem where in space the gate is and the seventh chevron tells the system which gate the wormhole is supposed to be connected to.

    So the PoO is really only needed when there are several Stargates in the same place...
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Can you cite episodes to back that up?



    if i remember from the season 2 opener, daniel escaped form apohis' ship using the gate, but since it was in earths orbit, it became earths 3rd gate, using the PoO he was able to escape

    My problem with that was that it would mean the Earth symbol was present on the gate they brought on the ship. Kind of a big coincidence, especially when (I'm trying to figure out which episode it was) I believe the home symbol is the only unique one.

  20. #20
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsDan
    My problem with that was that it would mean the Earth symbol was present on the gate they brought on the ship. Kind of a big coincidence, especially when (I'm trying to figure out which episode it was) I believe the home symbol is the only unique one.
    The Earth PoO isn't required to dial out from within Earth orbit. All you need is to be within the Earth Gates operational range, and you can dial out with any gate, regardless of what symbol it uses to represent it's PoO.
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