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  1. #21
    Captain SmallTimePerson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    The PoO is used to plot the course. You always have a PoO, when you are driving to work you would start from somewhere, when you make a call the switchboard knows where you are on the line (your PoO). The PoO symbol is useless in the Stargate universe when it comes to actually puncting it in, as you wouldn't be able to dial without it because you wouldn't be able to plot the course, thats why the DHDs have that button (the gate PoO but you dont have to search for the symbol).

  2. #22
    Major Seastallion's Avatar
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    Wink Everybody was wrong... here is the real reason. :rolleyes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Seldini
    I was thinking about this while trying to answer another question. I understand the concept of having to have 7 points to plot a course, 6 for the destination and one for the origin, as explained in the movie. But why did the Ancients even have a Point of Origin?

    The gate dialing is much like that of a telephone, you dial a number, and no matter where you're calling from, you will connect to the same phone. It doesn't matter where the origin is. So if the first 6 symbols give you the destination of a gate, and those symbols will connect you to the same stargate no matter where the wormhole originates from, why would you bother to even have a Point of Origin symbol? It changes nothing about the wormhole connection and only complicates the process (as seen in the movie).

    Any thoughts?
    Quite simple really. Not all Gate Addresses are 7 symbols long. Some are 8 symbols long (Like the address to Atlantis from Earth). The Point of Origin acts largely as an initializing factor. If you don't plug the PoO into the sequence at the 7th place, then the gate will assume that you are in fact dialing a longer address. If it did as you suggest, you might activate the gate to the wrong address when you were actually trying to dial a gate located outside the galaxy. This is why the PoO symbol is so very, very important. Granted... the instance where an extra-galactic gate would have the same first 6 symbols as a stargate within the galaxy would be very rare, but the possibility does exist.

    Hopefully this settles the question.
    The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed! Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is so vast, and we are so small, there is only truly one thing we can control; whether we are good or evil... -Oma Desala
    Spoiler:

    To all the 'Sci & Tech' forum users: If you are searching for a thread about your topic of interest, please come visit our Concordance Thread. If you have any questions, we will attempt to help you.
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  3. #23
    Chief Master Sergeant Atlantis_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Do you remember in Before I Sleep, Atlantis can block out all gate addresses other than the one from Earth, which begs the question how would the cities Mainframe be able to know which offworld activations were coming from where. I think I was correct to assume that not only does it act in terms to tell the offworld gate where in subspace the energy needs to be directed to establish the wormhole, but informs the DHD where it is coming from so any other programs (like a block) can be used.

  4. #24
    Major Seastallion's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantis_Man
    Do you remember in Before I Sleep, Atlantis can block out all gate addresses other than the one from Earth, which begs the question how would the cities Mainframe be able to know which offworld activations were coming from where. I think I was correct to assume that not only does it act in terms to tell the offworld gate where in subspace the energy needs to be directed to establish the wormhole, but informs the DHD where it is coming from so any other programs (like a block) can be used.
    Also a good point. Obviously the symbols have many different uses and we shouldn't forget that. The symbols in a gate address are also phonetic so that a gate address can be spoken aloud as words, besides being locator points. The Ancients sure were smart...
    The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed! Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is so vast, and we are so small, there is only truly one thing we can control; whether we are good or evil... -Oma Desala
    Spoiler:

    To all the 'Sci & Tech' forum users: If you are searching for a thread about your topic of interest, please come visit our Concordance Thread. If you have any questions, we will attempt to help you.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26498

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  5. #25
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    The Earth PoO isn't required to dial out from within Earth orbit. All you need is to be within the Earth Gates operational range, and you can dial out with any gate, regardless of what symbol it uses to represent it's PoO.


    Which brings us back to the original point, why is there a point of origin

  6. #26
    Major Seastallion's Avatar
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    Uncertain Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsDan
    The Earth PoO isn't required to dial out from within Earth orbit. All you need is to be within the Earth Gates operational range, and you can dial out with any gate, regardless of what symbol it uses to represent it's PoO.


    Which brings us back to the original point, why is there a point of origin
    Say what? If your referiring to the episode where they beamed the stargate onto Thor's ship, your sadly mistaken. They did use the PoO to dial the gate. The gate can be anywhere, and it still needs to have the PoO symbol on the gate used. The PoO symbol does not represent the actual position of the planet a gate is on... rather it represents the individual Stargate itself. Each PoO symbol is unique to every stargate. You could take the Earth Stargate to any starsystem anywhere, and it would still work as long as you were using a proper address.

    In short... you don't know what your talking about. There is no "operational range" for the Stargate. As long as it has enough power to reach the address your trying to dial, it will work no matter where it is. Unless your trying to dial your own position. Then the stargate simply won't activate. We saw an example of this when O'neill and Carter were trapped in Antartica and didn't know it. On Stargate SG-1, stargates have often been moved to new planets, but that didn't change the PoO symbol on the gate.

    Anywho...
    The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed! Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is so vast, and we are so small, there is only truly one thing we can control; whether we are good or evil... -Oma Desala
    Spoiler:

    To all the 'Sci & Tech' forum users: If you are searching for a thread about your topic of interest, please come visit our Concordance Thread. If you have any questions, we will attempt to help you.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26498

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  7. #27
    Second Lieutenant Wildrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    So simply put, the PoO is the gate you're using.

    Important either when there are several gates in the same place or to tell the system you're done dialling.
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  8. #28
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    In short... you don't know what your talking about

    I was responding to Jarnin, who stated that, like you said, the gate always uses its own PoO symbol. I never disagreed with this. I said "Which brings us back to the original point, why is there a point of origin", meaning, why does it need to be activated, given that the PoO is always "here", wherever "here" is. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I wasn't arguing that the PoO wasn't important.

    Now, there IS some sort of limit on the gate's activation abilities. We weren't refering to the episode you thought we were, rather it was The Serpent's Lair, where Daniel uses a gate brought from another location to dial out. That gate only worked when it was close to the surface of a planet (first when they gate'd onto the ship, and again when Daniel left the ship for the alpha site).

  9. #29
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Why is there a PoO? Because it was in the movie.

    Pragmatically? There is no pragmatics to bothering with the PoO!

    No one's seemed to have noticed this, but the PoO is THE GATE! There is no reason for there to be a PoO, as the origin is the GATE!

    Making someone dial a PoO is redundant and idiotic, as the gate can clearly calculate its own location relative to the other gates, or else you'd need to dial 12 coordinates.
    This poster has a Superiority Complex. Apologies in advance.

  10. #30
    Major Seastallion's Avatar
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    Earth Symbol Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsDan
    Now, there IS some sort of limit on the gate's activation abilities. We weren't refering to the episode you thought we were, rather it was The Serpent's Lair, where Daniel uses a gate brought from another location to dial out. That gate only worked when it was close to the surface of a planet (first when they gate'd onto the ship, and again when Daniel left the ship for the alpha site).
    Wrong. The Stargate doesn't have to be anywhere near a specific planet to be activated. It just can't be in travelling through Hyperspace and activated at the same time. The Stargate Address deals with an entire star system, not a single planet. The Stargate on Earth could be on Pluto, Mercury, or the Moon, and someone dialing to our stargate would still be able to activate it. As to dialing out with a gate, it doesn't matter where you are, as long as you have a valid outgoing address. You could take Earth's gate to the other side of the Galaxy, and still operate it exactly as you would on Earth, with the one exception that if you want to return through the moved Earth gate, you would need to calculate the new stargate Address for the Tau'ri gate based on its new position in the galaxy.

    The Point of Origin symbol is specific to the gate being used and nothing else. Not even the planet of origin. The Earth PoO symbol is specific to the gate on Earth, not the planet. If the gate were taken to another star system, it would still be valid. The only difference is, that if you moved the gate you would need to figure out what the new return address would be, because the old one would be invalid because the gate would no longer be in the Solar system.
    The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed! Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is so vast, and we are so small, there is only truly one thing we can control; whether we are good or evil... -Oma Desala
    Spoiler:

    To all the 'Sci & Tech' forum users: If you are searching for a thread about your topic of interest, please come visit our Concordance Thread. If you have any questions, we will attempt to help you.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26498

    Feel free to pass the green..!

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  11. #31
    Major Seastallion's Avatar
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    Stargate Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoDot
    Why is there a PoO? Because it was in the movie.

    Pragmatically? There is no pragmatics to bothering with the PoO!

    No one's seemed to have noticed this, but the PoO is THE GATE! There is no reason for there to be a PoO, as the origin is the GATE!

    Making someone dial a PoO is redundant and idiotic, as the gate can clearly calculate its own location relative to the other gates, or else you'd need to dial 12 coordinates.
    Wrong. The 'pragmatic' reason for dialing the point of origin symbol is tell the gate that you've finished entering in coordinates and to execute the wormhole activation. Not all stargate addresses use just 6 locator points. Extra-galactic stargate addresses use an extra 7th locator symbol in the address. If, by some chance, a stargate in our galaxy had the same exact first 6 symbols as a gate in another galaxy's address, and you were trying to reach the extra-galactic gate, then when you began dialing the address the gate would automatically activate after you put in the 6th symbol and you'd never get to the extra-galactic gate. That is why you need the PoO symbol. To tell the gate your done dialing, and to go ahead and activate the wormhole. Otherwise, the gate could activate to early and you'd never be able to reach the gate in the other galaxy.
    The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed! Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is so vast, and we are so small, there is only truly one thing we can control; whether we are good or evil... -Oma Desala
    Spoiler:

    To all the 'Sci & Tech' forum users: If you are searching for a thread about your topic of interest, please come visit our Concordance Thread. If you have any questions, we will attempt to help you.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26498

    Feel free to pass the green..!

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    Also, visit my webpage at... http://www.stargatesg1.com/Seastallion Sadly, this page is gone with the website that supported it, but I'll keep the link up in memorial.

  12. #32
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seastallion
    Wrong. The 'pragmatic' reason for dialing the point of origin symbol is tell the gate that you've finished entering in coordinates and to execute the wormhole activation. Not all stargate addresses use just 6 locator points. Extra-galactic stargate addresses use an extra 7th locator symbol in the address. If, by some chance, a stargate in our galaxy had the same exact first 6 symbols as a gate in another galaxy's address, and you were trying to reach the extra-galactic gate, then when you began dialing the address the gate would automatically activate after you put in the 6th symbol and you'd never get to the extra-galactic gate. That is why you need the PoO symbol. To tell the gate your done dialing, and to go ahead and activate the wormhole. Otherwise, the gate could activate to early and you'd never be able to reach the gate in the other galaxy.
    That argument only works when dialing manually. The DHD has the "Big Red Button" that you push.
    This poster has a Superiority Complex. Apologies in advance.

  13. #33
    Second Lieutenant Wildrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoDot
    That argument only works when dialing manually. The DHD has the "Big Red Button" that you push.
    Well, then the PoO tells with gate you're using...
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  14. #34
    Second Lieutenant Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoDot
    That argument only works when dialing manually. The DHD has the "Big Red Button" that you push.
    DHDs aren't supossed to have POO symbols on them...
    Warning: This post may not be meant to be taken seriously.
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  15. #35
    Second Lieutenant Wildrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat
    DHDs aren't supossed to have POO symbols on them...
    But they do!
    http://rdanderson.com/stargate/glyphs/glyphs.htm
    S.T.A.K.S. if you think kirking stinks...

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  16. #36
    Second Lieutenant Schrodinger's Cat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildrat
    I know...
    Warning: This post may not be meant to be taken seriously.
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  17. #37
    Second Lieutenant Wildrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat
    I know...
    Oh...
    S.T.A.K.S. if you think kirking stinks...

    Jackson: Earth minutes?
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Its there for decoration, it's serves no practical purpose, just like with the Pegasus gates having blue chevrons instead of orange.

    Other than that it's to increase the unlikeliness that 'young' civilisations will use the gate and get into trouble.

  19. #39
    Second Lieutenant Wildrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by TPL2005
    Its there for decoration, it's serves no practical purpose, just like with the Pegasus gates having blue chevrons instead of orange.

    Other than that it's to increase the unlikeliness that 'young' civilisations will use the gate and get into trouble.
    Quite plausable... This discussion kind of proves your statement...
    S.T.A.K.S. if you think kirking stinks...

    Jackson: Earth minutes?
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    Vala: Well, now you have.

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  20. #40
    Second Lieutenant Gate Master's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is there a Point of Origin?

    Having the point of origin in the movie made more sense as they were right when you need a starting destination to plot a course especially in a universe that is constantly in motion.
    Knowing merely where the end destination is useless unless you know where you are in relation to it.
    In overly simplistic terms the transmitting gate needs to know which way to point the wormhole to make a connection.
    But then there are alot of discrepancies between the movie and the series. I dont know if any one else noticed but in the movie they were actually dialing another galaxy so by the series logic should have been an eight simbal address. The series however has changed a lot of the things from the movie as demonstrated by this debate.
    But as has already been mentioned having the seventh simbal on a DHD is daft why not let it do the necessary calculations when the main actvation button is pressed. But there's been that many inconsistancies in the show regarding stargates in general that I wouldn't even begin to speculate why DHD's have a PoO
    Last edited by Gate Master; January 16th, 2006 at 10:29 AM.

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