The Long Goodbye (216)

[Dorka]

OMG I'm totaly in love with this episode...I can't help myself *loL*!

It was ways better done like the last 7 (with leaving Critical Mass out..that one was great!)

Torri was my favourite actress already before this episode...but after watching it I have to say...yes, she really IS a great actress. I mean compared to John's acting, he didn't convince me in one minute, that he's an other person well he wasn't under THAT much influence as Elizabeth, but there wasn't a slightest changes apart from what? one scene?But Torri did, from the first move, she did as Phoebus. It was a really great Elizabeth episode...and I really liked the end of it. Liz was quite girly acting in the last 3 minutes... that was a hint of Torri I guess, but really great!

The storyline was quite interesting, but I think Sheppard just agreed too fast with doing it, they should have discussed it a bit longer, maybe so we can see that Caldwell was really AGAINST it!

Caldwell was great too... he's not the bad guy anymore, I like how he changed after this whole Goaul'd thing - and he's really throwing in some Liz/John-stuff...already in Conversion and now too... I like him in the episodes...all my favourite episodes this season has been with him in it... and not only bc of him, the storyline was always great when he's there!

What's else to say? hm, This is really one of my favourite episodes... not only this year... on my top 5 list!

From the Liz/John-shipper point? THANk you sooo much for that really sweet kiss and the ending scene... I was melting in my seat while watching both! sweetly done!

Technical point of view? Some really good DOP-work! I was amazed... made it more clear

[GatetheWay]

To be fair, I think it was easy for Torri to differentiate her alien person from her original character because the alien was so different from Weir where as with Joe, his alien was similiar to his orginal character. What do we know of the alien guy? He was a military pilot of some kind and was fighting a war that isn't all that different from Shep's character so it was, understandably, much harder for Joe to differentiate he two character.

[xfkirsten]

To be fair, I think it was easy for Torri to differentiate her alien person from her original character because the alien was so different from Weir where as with Joe, his alien was similiar to his orginal character. What do we know of the alien guy? He was a military pilot of some kind and was fighting a war that isn't all that different from Shep's character so it was, understandably, much harder for Joe to differentiate he two character.

To a point, I can agree with you there. But even his speech patterns didn't change!

[Easter Lily]

I think the whole POINT of it was for him to play it like he was still Sheppard. Torri just had to be blantantly different. Easier to do, actually. We know Joe can do bad. IE:Conversion. So he played it perfectly.

That's a very good point, Merlin... I kind of wondered why he didn't ham it up a bit more... but it was about subterfuge and well, he did fool Ronon... What was also interesting to me was that the Thalan character was less inclined to kill (he carried a stunner) than the Phoebus one. She seemed a lot more determined, more violent... whilst he was running AWAY from her... she was trying to track him down. With that in mind, I think the similarities between Sheppard and Thalan were far greater than that of Phoebus and Weir.

I enjoyed the episode for what it was... a piece of escapist fare... I didn't expect much and got a bit more out of Caldwell and Teyla... Glad to finally see SOME continuity from previous episodes. Most of all I'm glad we got another team episode which is really what Atlantis used to be really good at...

I like Shipmum's idea... but I don't think Stargate's that good with angst... I think we need to leave to the fanfic writers for that one I think....

[alfirin_kirinki]

Wow. This episode was all about two people in love.

Caldwell with Weir and McKay with Sheppard.

All those angsty sighs! They're causing HURRICANES ON THE MAINLAND.

[prion]

I think the whole POINT of it was for him to play it like he was still Sheppard. Torri just had to be blantantly different. Easier to do, actually. We know Joe can do bad. IE:Conversion. So he played it perfectly.

Yup, the badguy just had to impersonate Shep long enough to convince Ronon he was Shep and not the bad guy, while Weir, or rather, the evil lady inside her, just made no bones about killing people. Whereas the NotShep actually called medical after Ronon was called (perhaps because the real Shep inside his head was screaming bloody murder and wouldn't quit unless the NotShep conceded to that one little thing), the NotWeir was not above killing anybody to get to her target.

The thing is that if the NotWeir were logical, she would have never had the other lifepod retrieved and just had it blown up ("oh, that body contains killer head lice - destroy it"!). Alas, both characters were driven by an obsession to the point that they wanted the thrill of the hunt and then kill.

It was a nice fast-paced episode which I quite enjoyed.

HOpe to see some good fanfic come out of it as I know they won't ever cover the angsty stuff on the actual show: especially Teyla, who was being forced into possibly killing Sheppard.

[AutumnDream]

SG1 and SGA both have solid fundamentals, great backstories, and a rich tapestry of history and characters upon which to draw from... yet, instead of exploring these details, the producers greenlight stories which add little (if anything) to the fabric of the Stargate universe and even less to the depth of the characters.

Quoted for emphasis.

[CalmStorm]

Ronon=entirely too trusting of Sheppard. Guess it makes sense for a Runner, he's used to depending on his senses and field logic, which does not include alien possesion. If it looks like a Shep and quacks like a Shep, it's a Shep.

LOL.....entirely too funny.....thank you for the laugh

[Merlin7]

I could understand that, except he was exactly like Sheppard even when he wasn't pretending to be Sheppard. And I think what may have helped in that respect is if he did something along the lines of what Torri did when she was Phoebus-pretending-to-be-Weir: put in a slight twist to the character (in her case, being a bit too "girly") that made you know something was up. At the end, they were certainly trying to play up the is-he-or-isn't he, so it makes sense there for him to try and act like Sheppard. But not in the middle of the show, when it was just Phoebus and Thalan.

Well..as I watched the whole point was NOT KNOWING exactly Who Thalan was trying to be at the time. And it was done brilliantly. Subtle shadings. I knew when he was Shep. When he was Thalan. And when he was Thalan trying to be Shep.

[Merlin7]

Yup, the badguy just had to impersonate Shep long enough to convince Ronon he was Shep and not the bad guy, while Weir, or rather, the evil lady inside her, just made no bones about killing people. Whereas the NotShep actually called medical after Ronon was called (perhaps because the real Shep inside his head was screaming bloody murder and wouldn't quit unless the NotShep conceded to that one little thing), the NotWeir was not above killing anybody to get to her target.

The thing is that if the NotWeir were logical, she would have never had the other lifepod retrieved and just had it blown up ("oh, that body contains killer head lice - destroy it"!). Alas, both characters were driven by an obsession to the point that they wanted the thrill of the hunt and then kill.

It was a nice fast-paced episode which I quite enjoyed.

HOpe to see some good fanfic come out of it as I know they won't ever cover the angsty stuff on the actual show: especially Teyla, who was being forced into possibly killing Sheppard.

That's the bit that surprised me. Phoebus not just letting Thalan die. Pride I guess. Although she was willing to let Teyla kill him at the end.

I loved Teyla having to make the choice. In her place Shep would have done the same thing and it mirrored what was done in Critical. Sacrifice the one for the many. Although Kavanaugh wouldn't have been killed.

[Merlin7]

That's a very good point, Merlin... I kind of wondered why he didn't ham it up a bit more... but it was about subterfuge and well, he did fool Ronon... What was also interesting to me was that the Thalan character was less inclined to kill (he carried a stunner) than the Phoebus one. She seemed a lot more determined, more violent... whilst he was running AWAY from her... she was trying to track him down. With that in mind, I think the similarities between Sheppard and Thalan were far greater than that of Phoebus and Weir.

I enjoyed the episode for what it was... a piece of escapist fare... I didn't expect much and got a bit more out of Caldwell and Teyla... Glad to finally see SOME continuity from previous episodes. Most of all I'm glad we got another team episode which is really what Atlantis used to be really good at...

I like Shipmum's idea... but I don't think Stargate's that good with angst... I think we need to leave to the fanfic writers for that one I think....

I thought having Phoebus very cold/evil compared to Weir. Very distinct differences, yet Shep not as obvious was brilliant. Would have been too meh to have them both obviously evil. This way it showcased the differences as much between Shep and Weir as Thalan and Phoebus.

[Merlin7]

OMG I'm totaly in love with this episode...I can't help myself *loL*!

It was ways better done like the last 7 (with leaving Critical Mass out..that one was great!)

Torri was my favourite actress already before this episode...but after watching it I have to say...yes, she really IS a great actress. I mean compared to John's acting, he didn't convince me in one minute, that he's an other person well he wasn't under THAT much influence as Elizabeth, but there wasn't a slightest changes apart from what? one scene?But Torri did, from the first move, she did as Phoebus. It was a really great Elizabeth episode...and I really liked the end of it. Liz was quite girly acting in the last 3 minutes... that was a hint of Torri I guess, but really great!

The storyline was quite interesting, but I think Sheppard just agreed too fast with doing it, they should have discussed it a bit longer, maybe so we can see that Caldwell was really AGAINST it!

Caldwell was great too... he's not the bad guy anymore, I like how he changed after this whole Goaul'd thing - and he's really throwing in some Liz/John-stuff...already in Conversion and now too... I like him in the episodes...all my favourite episodes this season has been with him in it... and not only bc of him, the storyline was always great when he's there!

What's else to say? hm, This is really one of my favourite episodes... not only this year... on my top 5 list!

From the Liz/John-shipper point? THANk you sooo much for that really sweet kiss and the ending scene... I was melting in my seat while watching both! sweetly done!

Technical point of view? Some really good DOP-work! I was amazed... made it more clear

You're a Shep/Weir shipper? Huh. I'm actually surprised.

[AutumnDream]

Nice! Quadruple post! XD

[PartyLikeIts1984]

I'm just about to watch the epi again, after which I will do a real post, but before I do, I just want to say: mad props to Caldwell. He was awesome in this epi. I loved seeing him handling Rodney in a way different from Shep and Weir, but equally, if not more, effectively. This guy needs an appreciation thread.

It's been said earlier in the thread, but I think we speculate that perhaps these were the big bads that created the nano virus.

[Taonas]

I'm just about to watch the epi again, after which I will do a real post, but before I do, I just want to say: mad props to Caldwell. He was awesome in this epi. I loved seeing him handling Rodney in a way different from Shep and Weir, but equally, if not more, effectively. This guy needs an appreciation thread.

It's been said earlier in the thread, but I think we speculate that perhaps these were the big bads that created the nano virus.

Indeed, there is strong... well, relatively strong evidence to support that... I mean seriously, the way they talked to me tells me that their two people hated each other.

It is fully within human capacity to create something as terrifying as the nano-virus. Also it's even more believable in the time of war.