The Long Goodbye (216)

[Butlersgate]

great cat and mouse episode

[escyos]

i think that may have been modified wraith technology anyone else?

[ktebid]

I really enjoyed this episode. I felt the kiss at the beginning followed on from Phebus's explanation. If they hadn't had some sort of "reunion" it would have seemed odd. I loved how they turned it to their tactical advantage.

[Ragitsu]

Why was Thalan/Thalen nice enough to call in medical assistance for Ronon ?

[polomare]

^Thalen said Sheppard was screaming in his head like he wouldn't believe.
So maybe he did it to appease his host and get John to pipe down so he could go about the business of tracking Phoebus.

[mrscopterdoc]

I think this is one of my most favorite episodes of the season. I love that Weir gets a chance to do something different.

[maneth]

The Long Goodbye. Okay, but not one of my faves either. Although I must say I liked Phoebus and the personality who invaded Sheppard. Oh well, maybe now Shep and Elizabeth will have some understanding of Caldwell's discomfort with being a former Goa'uld host, and for that matter why McKay's still creeped out by Cadman.

[Blizzah]

I did not really enjoy this episode, it seems very difficult to believe that the crew would let some of the most important people at Atlantis be comprimised by alien life forces. If there had been any voices of reason this episode could not have happened. The acting was good and the fight scenes were well done, so from the perspective it was good but too much has to be glazed over in order to make the episode work. So by far not my favourite but not the worst either.

[mathpiglet]

I enjoyed that Elizabeth got to do something other than fret, but I agree that's it extremely unlikely the team would fall for that.

[Lythisrose]

From Joe Mallozzi's Blog, thoughts on this episode:
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...-long-goodbye/

THE LONG GOODBYE (216)

While the premise was great, this episode suffered from a very tight turnaround on the script. It was only days from outline approval to first draft followed by a rewrite under similar time constraints. The result = an episode that, while engaging, does give rise to a number of questions. Questions like…Wh

Why does everyone automatically believe that it is Weir they are speaking to and not the alien entity that has entered her body?

Why does Sheppard, the city’s highest ranking military officer, recklessly allow himself to be possessed by an alien entity?

In retrospect, I think these issues could have been addressed by having both Weir and Sheppard struck at the same time while both pods are being studied. Both go down and are transported to the infirmary but it is Weir who comes to first. By the time she, Phebus/Weir, realizes the situation she’s in, Thalen/Sheppard is awake and on the run.

If Phebus is so eager to “win the war” by killing her old rival, why doesn’t she do it while he’s still in the pod and vulnerable? It can’t be because of any consequences she may face at the hands of the Atlantis crew because she knows she has only a few hours to live, readily admitting as much earlier. It can be “the thrill of the hunt” because, at episode’s end, she orders Teyla to drag her bound enemy into camera range so she (Phebus) can watch Teyla kill him.

This too could have been addressed by rolling with the aforementioned scenario. If she never has the opportunity to kill him off the top, this isn’t an issue.

Why the hell is McKay unloading a weapon in John’s direction? He’s smart enough to realize that he could kill Sheppard.

This one’s simple. DON’T have McKay fire on Sheppard.

Phebus threatens to turn on (what is a deadly version of) the Halon fire suppression system and kill everyone on Atlantis. Why would the city be outfitted with a highly toxic fire suppression system? Are they cheaper than sprinklers?

Rather than go with Halon, which suggests they were an “after-market addition” on the part of the Atlantis crew, why not have the city’s last ditch fail safe protocol be an immediate lockdown and sealing of the affected areas followed by either a venting of oxygen or piping in of CO2? Both would do the trick.

There is one interesting suggestion late in the episode when Teyla has Thalen/Sheppard lined up for the kill shot. As Thalen faces certain death, he informs her: ” If you kill me, you’re killing him. He cares for you more than you know.” Thalen, of course, has access to Sheppard’s memories and thoughts, so the question here is “Is Thalen saying this because John believes Teyla loves him? Or is he saying this because John loves Teyla?”. Intriguing.

The best part of this episode was getting to see Weir/Torri kick ass.

Thoughts?

[kariesue]

I like the ep for a few reasons but it wasn't really thought out like it should have been.

I agree that Sheppard would not have so easily agreed to have the entity in his body and so that was kind of stupid. The one thing I hated about the kiss was that so many Weir Sheppard shippers used it as an example of the two of them caring for each other. But they were being controlled by alien entities and it was only a rouse to get the others to think they were married. There was nothing there shipwise.

The reality in this episode was that Thalen says to Teyla, "If you kill me, you're killing him. He cares for you more than you know." Now yes he could be saying this to try and get Teyla not to kill him. But in the end we see that Thalen was actually not a bad guy. He called for assistance for Ronon and never actually hurt anyone though he tried to kill Pheobus. I think he was being truthful and letting Teyla know that Sheppard cared for her. And you can see how truly torn Teyla is at possibly having to kill Sheppard, someone she cares for very much too. She tries to waste as much time as she can at this point.

Even Weir/Pheobus says about Teyla catching Sheppard/Thalen "I'm not surprised that you're the only one who managed to get him." She has Weir's thoughts and I'm guessing she knows how close Teyla and John are.

The scene at the end was kind of silly and I thought Weir acted goofy. Sheppard didn't seem as bothered by it though. And I always wondered about the infirmary. It's so open and they have men and women in beds right next to each other. No hospital would do that just for privacy's sake. Do military hospitals really have men and women in beds right next to each other?

[hlndncr]

I agree that Sheppard would not have so easily agreed to have the entity in his body and so that was kind of stupid. The one thing I hated about the kiss was that so many Weir Sheppard shippers used it as an example of the two of them caring for each other. But they were being controlled by alien entities and it was only a rouse to get the others to think they were married. There was nothing there shipwise.

I'd just like to comment on this. As a shipper myself (of a different pairing) I don't think we should be criticizing others' interpretive choices. Disagree fine. But if a shipper wants to see that kiss as something more then that's their choice and it doesn't limit or detract from my own enjoyment. So rather than making a definitive statement ("There is no ship.") I would suggest a reflective statement ("I do not see any ship."). It's a simple point of courtesy that can open up a more constructive dialog.

[Southern Red]

I'd just like to comment on this. As a shipper myself (of a different pairing) I don't think we should be criticizing others' interpretive choices. Disagree fine. But if a shipper wants to see that kiss as something more then that's their choice and it doesn't limit or detract from my own enjoyment. So rather than making a definitive statement ("There is no ship.") I would suggest a reflective statement ("I do not see any ship."). It's a simple point of courtesy that can open up a more constructive dialog.

Thank you for that. Shipping is such a matter of personal perception we have to be very careful not to state opinion as fact. As a John/Elizabeth shipper from way back, I'd also like to make it clear that we don't consider that kiss to be an indication of ship between them, but we appreciate it for the visual it presents. It's handy to use in vids and art, nothing more.

[ShipperWriter]

I'm a John/Elizabeth shipper as well, and I agree with Southern Red's post above. No, the kiss wasn't proof of a relationship, but we still like to see it.

Personally, I loved all the reactions from everyone else in the room. Which was exactly the point for it. They were trying to throw everybody off, and Thalen knew if she was honest and said, "Yeah, we're sworn enemies who have been trying to kill each other for years," they wouldn't have been let anywhere near each other. She had a mission, and she was going to do whatever she had to do to finish it. And I loved the clueless look on Phoebus' face while he started figuring out what was going on. LOL

Getting to see kick-ass Torri was awesome. And to a degree, I felt like everybody got played. After all, they're not perfect. No matter how much we think they are. Thalen played on their emotions, which sometimes, if not usually, overrule common sense, no matter who you are.

So even without the Sheppard/Weir kiss, I still liked the episode. Just my two cents.

[Krisz]

This well worn theme of 'alien minds taking over others' bodies to finish the feud' scenario was done a lot better in Trek VOY and DS9 episodes for me.

I still can't get over how easily everyone accepted the 'oh I want to see my husband for the last time' mushy story. Sheppard volunteering was just odd, why would someone else volunteer on the say so of an alien, especially after one jumped into Weir?!

The way it was all executed seemed very stilted, I really didn't enjoy watching this episode that much.