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  1. #61
    Lieutenant Colonel Dorka's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    OMG I'm totaly in love with this episode...I can't help myself *loL*!

    It was ways better done like the last 7 (with leaving Critical Mass out..that one was great!)

    Torri was my favourite actress already before this episode...but after watching it I have to say...yes, she really IS a great actress. I mean compared to John's acting, he didn't convince me in one minute, that he's an other person well he wasn't under THAT much influence as Elizabeth, but there wasn't a slightest changes apart from what? one scene?But Torri did, from the first move, she did as Phoebus. It was a really great Elizabeth episode...and I really liked the end of it. Liz was quite girly acting in the last 3 minutes... that was a hint of Torri I guess, but really great!

    The storyline was quite interesting, but I think Sheppard just agreed too fast with doing it, they should have discussed it a bit longer, maybe so we can see that Caldwell was really AGAINST it!

    Caldwell was great too... he's not the bad guy anymore, I like how he changed after this whole Goaul'd thing - and he's really throwing in some Liz/John-stuff...already in Conversion and now too... I like him in the episodes...all my favourite episodes this season has been with him in it... and not only bc of him, the storyline was always great when he's there!

    What's else to say? hm, This is really one of my favourite episodes... not only this year... on my top 5 list!

    From the Liz/John-shipper point? THANk you sooo much for that really sweet kiss and the ending scene... I was melting in my seat while watching both! sweetly done!

    Technical point of view? Some really good DOP-work! I was amazed... made it more clear

  2. #62
    Major GatetheWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    To be fair, I think it was easy for Torri to differentiate her alien person from her original character because the alien was so different from Weir where as with Joe, his alien was similiar to his orginal character. What do we know of the alien guy? He was a military pilot of some kind and was fighting a war that isn't all that different from Shep's character so it was, understandably, much harder for Joe to differentiate he two character.
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  3. #63
    Major xfkirsten's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by GatetheWay
    To be fair, I think it was easy for Torri to differentiate her alien person from her original character because the alien was so different from Weir where as with Joe, his alien was similiar to his orginal character. What do we know of the alien guy? He was a military pilot of some kind and was fighting a war that isn't all that different from Shep's character so it was, understandably, much harder for Joe to differentiate he two character.
    To a point, I can agree with you there. But even his speech patterns didn't change!
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  4. #64

    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin7
    I think the whole POINT of it was for him to play it like he was still Sheppard. Torri just had to be blantantly different. Easier to do, actually. We know Joe can do bad. IE:Conversion. So he played it perfectly.
    That's a very good point, Merlin... I kind of wondered why he didn't ham it up a bit more... but it was about subterfuge and well, he did fool Ronon... What was also interesting to me was that the Thalan character was less inclined to kill (he carried a stunner) than the Phoebus one. She seemed a lot more determined, more violent... whilst he was running AWAY from her... she was trying to track him down. With that in mind, I think the similarities between Sheppard and Thalan were far greater than that of Phoebus and Weir.

    I enjoyed the episode for what it was... a piece of escapist fare... I didn't expect much and got a bit more out of Caldwell and Teyla... Glad to finally see SOME continuity from previous episodes. Most of all I'm glad we got another team episode which is really what Atlantis used to be really good at...

    I like Shipmum's idea... but I don't think Stargate's that good with angst... I think we need to leave to the fanfic writers for that one I think....

    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

  5. #65
    First Lieutenant alfirin_kirinki's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Wow. This episode was all about two people in love.

    Caldwell with Weir and McKay with Sheppard.

    All those angsty sighs! They're causing HURRICANES ON THE MAINLAND.
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  6. #66
    Lieutenant General prion's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin7
    I think the whole POINT of it was for him to play it like he was still Sheppard. Torri just had to be blantantly different. Easier to do, actually. We know Joe can do bad. IE:Conversion. So he played it perfectly.
    Yup, the badguy just had to impersonate Shep long enough to convince Ronon he was Shep and not the bad guy, while Weir, or rather, the evil lady inside her, just made no bones about killing people. Whereas the NotShep actually called medical after Ronon was called (perhaps because the real Shep inside his head was screaming bloody murder and wouldn't quit unless the NotShep conceded to that one little thing), the NotWeir was not above killing anybody to get to her target.

    The thing is that if the NotWeir were logical, she would have never had the other lifepod retrieved and just had it blown up ("oh, that body contains killer head lice - destroy it"!). Alas, both characters were driven by an obsession to the point that they wanted the thrill of the hunt and then kill.

    It was a nice fast-paced episode which I quite enjoyed.

    HOpe to see some good fanfic come out of it as I know they won't ever cover the angsty stuff on the actual show: especially Teyla, who was being forced into possibly killing Sheppard.

  7. #67
    First Lieutenant AutumnDream's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Micronaut
    SG1 and SGA both have solid fundamentals, great backstories, and a rich tapestry of history and characters upon which to draw from... yet, instead of exploring these details, the producers greenlight stories which add little (if anything) to the fabric of the Stargate universe and even less to the depth of the characters.
    Quoted for emphasis.

  8. #68
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by starfox

    Ronon=entirely too trusting of Sheppard. Guess it makes sense for a Runner, he's used to depending on his senses and field logic, which does not include alien possesion. If it looks like a Shep and quacks like a Shep, it's a Shep.
    LOL.....entirely too funny.....thank you for the laugh

  9. #69
    Captain Merlin7's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by xfkirsten
    I could understand that, except he was exactly like Sheppard even when he wasn't pretending to be Sheppard. And I think what may have helped in that respect is if he did something along the lines of what Torri did when she was Phoebus-pretending-to-be-Weir: put in a slight twist to the character (in her case, being a bit too "girly") that made you know something was up. At the end, they were certainly trying to play up the is-he-or-isn't he, so it makes sense there for him to try and act like Sheppard. But not in the middle of the show, when it was just Phoebus and Thalan.

    Well..as I watched the whole point was NOT KNOWING exactly Who Thalan was trying to be at the time. And it was done brilliantly. Subtle shadings. I knew when he was Shep. When he was Thalan. And when he was Thalan trying to be Shep.

  10. #70
    Captain Merlin7's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by prion
    Yup, the badguy just had to impersonate Shep long enough to convince Ronon he was Shep and not the bad guy, while Weir, or rather, the evil lady inside her, just made no bones about killing people. Whereas the NotShep actually called medical after Ronon was called (perhaps because the real Shep inside his head was screaming bloody murder and wouldn't quit unless the NotShep conceded to that one little thing), the NotWeir was not above killing anybody to get to her target.

    The thing is that if the NotWeir were logical, she would have never had the other lifepod retrieved and just had it blown up ("oh, that body contains killer head lice - destroy it"!). Alas, both characters were driven by an obsession to the point that they wanted the thrill of the hunt and then kill.

    It was a nice fast-paced episode which I quite enjoyed.

    HOpe to see some good fanfic come out of it as I know they won't ever cover the angsty stuff on the actual show: especially Teyla, who was being forced into possibly killing Sheppard.

    That's the bit that surprised me. Phoebus not just letting Thalan die. Pride I guess. Although she was willing to let Teyla kill him at the end.

    I loved Teyla having to make the choice. In her place Shep would have done the same thing and it mirrored what was done in Critical. Sacrifice the one for the many. Although Kavanaugh wouldn't have been killed.

  11. #71
    Captain Merlin7's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Easter Lily
    That's a very good point, Merlin... I kind of wondered why he didn't ham it up a bit more... but it was about subterfuge and well, he did fool Ronon... What was also interesting to me was that the Thalan character was less inclined to kill (he carried a stunner) than the Phoebus one. She seemed a lot more determined, more violent... whilst he was running AWAY from her... she was trying to track him down. With that in mind, I think the similarities between Sheppard and Thalan were far greater than that of Phoebus and Weir.

    I enjoyed the episode for what it was... a piece of escapist fare... I didn't expect much and got a bit more out of Caldwell and Teyla... Glad to finally see SOME continuity from previous episodes. Most of all I'm glad we got another team episode which is really what Atlantis used to be really good at...

    I like Shipmum's idea... but I don't think Stargate's that good with angst... I think we need to leave to the fanfic writers for that one I think....
    I thought having Phoebus very cold/evil compared to Weir. Very distinct differences, yet Shep not as obvious was brilliant. Would have been too meh to have them both obviously evil. This way it showcased the differences as much between Shep and Weir as Thalan and Phoebus.

  12. #72
    Captain Merlin7's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorka
    OMG I'm totaly in love with this episode...I can't help myself *loL*!

    It was ways better done like the last 7 (with leaving Critical Mass out..that one was great!)

    Torri was my favourite actress already before this episode...but after watching it I have to say...yes, she really IS a great actress. I mean compared to John's acting, he didn't convince me in one minute, that he's an other person well he wasn't under THAT much influence as Elizabeth, but there wasn't a slightest changes apart from what? one scene?But Torri did, from the first move, she did as Phoebus. It was a really great Elizabeth episode...and I really liked the end of it. Liz was quite girly acting in the last 3 minutes... that was a hint of Torri I guess, but really great!

    The storyline was quite interesting, but I think Sheppard just agreed too fast with doing it, they should have discussed it a bit longer, maybe so we can see that Caldwell was really AGAINST it!

    Caldwell was great too... he's not the bad guy anymore, I like how he changed after this whole Goaul'd thing - and he's really throwing in some Liz/John-stuff...already in Conversion and now too... I like him in the episodes...all my favourite episodes this season has been with him in it... and not only bc of him, the storyline was always great when he's there!

    What's else to say? hm, This is really one of my favourite episodes... not only this year... on my top 5 list!

    From the Liz/John-shipper point? THANk you sooo much for that really sweet kiss and the ending scene... I was melting in my seat while watching both! sweetly done!

    Technical point of view? Some really good DOP-work! I was amazed... made it more clear

    You're a Shep/Weir shipper? Huh. I'm actually surprised.

  13. #73
    First Lieutenant AutumnDream's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Nice! Quadruple post! XD

  14. #74
    First Lieutenant PartyLikeIts1984's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    I'm just about to watch the epi again, after which I will do a real post, but before I do, I just want to say: mad props to Caldwell. He was awesome in this epi. I loved seeing him handling Rodney in a way different from Shep and Weir, but equally, if not more, effectively. This guy needs an appreciation thread.

    It's been said earlier in the thread, but I think we speculate that perhaps these were the big bads that created the nano virus.

  15. #75
    First Lieutenant Taonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by PartyLikeIts1984
    I'm just about to watch the epi again, after which I will do a real post, but before I do, I just want to say: mad props to Caldwell. He was awesome in this epi. I loved seeing him handling Rodney in a way different from Shep and Weir, but equally, if not more, effectively. This guy needs an appreciation thread.

    It's been said earlier in the thread, but I think we speculate that perhaps these were the big bads that created the nano virus.
    Indeed, there is strong... well, relatively strong evidence to support that... I mean seriously, the way they talked to me tells me that their two people hated each other.

    It is fully within human capacity to create something as terrifying as the nano-virus. Also it's even more believable in the time of war.

    In the infinite expanse that we occupy, whose to say that something's impossible?

  16. #76
    Colonel ToasterOnFire's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Hmmm…a decent one, certainly better than the crud that was Epiphany and Tower. Granted, the plotline was trivial but at least the episode seemed to move along at a decent pace and there were some nice nods to the continuity fairy.


    More points:

    -Why on earth did everyone decide that it was a good idea to infect Shep with the alien after Weir was already infected? Sure, let’s put both our leader AND our military commander at risk. Bang-o idea! At least Caldwell stated his concerns, but he should have raised more of a stink.

    -The plotline where a crewmember is forced to do things against their will because they have been taken over by something or someone has been done three times so far this season. Can we drop it now? Seriously.

    -Has the Atlantis chain of command finally been canonized? Weir then Sheppard then McKay?

    -Great acting by Torri – she really portrayed the alien well. I was a bit disappointed that Weir ran around with a gun, since I remember her and a PTB stating early on that she would never use one on the show. Oh well, guess the writers would say it’s not really Weir so it’s okay, just like they excuse away all the kissing.

    -Along those lines, it would appear that TPTB is getting a kick out of jerking shippers around with possessed kisses and real/not real declarations of deeper feelings. Oh joy. Can’t wait to see what they do in season 3.

    -While those lights on the wraith guns and Ronan’s gun may look cool, they stick out like a sore thumb when everything’s dark. Don’t those come with off switches?

    - Caldwell! That was his best show yet, and it was nice to see him get along with Weir and show his leadership skills in the control room.

    -I admit, Rodney grated a bit in this ep. It was most noticeable when he actually stopped trying to get the command code, even though he knew there was a time crunch, to argue with Caldwell.

    -It was odd to me that Ronon, who seems to shoot first and ask questions later, was so easily fooled by the alien in Shep rather than stunning him immediately and then sorting things out from there.

    -Always good to see Teyla thinking quick on her feet. Giving the gun to Shep so he can shoot Weir and then kicking it away because she still didn’t trust him. Smart gal.

    -The new control room guy (Grodin replacement?) that we’ve been seeing a lot of…reminds me of Dawson.

  17. #77
    Colonel NowIWillDestroyAbydos's Avatar
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    Arrow2 Re: The Long Goodbye

    Just watched the ep. It was awesome, but it's not better than Conversion I can tell ya that. I give it a ***1/2.

    Cool ending huh:


    I think this season is becoming the season of bests: Joe in Conversion and Torri in this episode.

    And a cool episode for sound clips (for Ronan's Gun and the Wraith stunner: Hand version).

  18. #78

    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by ToasterOnFire
    More points:

    -Why on earth did everyone decide that it was a good idea to infect Shep with the alien after Weir was already infected? Sure, let’s put both our leader AND our military commander at risk. Bang-o idea! At least Caldwell stated his concerns, but he should have raised more of a stink.
    Great point... having the two lead actors compromised obviously comes from the days when the Captain beamed down with the landing party... in all fairness, having two "red shirts" go through this would not have been as interesting, but it might have worked with one lead and one recurring character (imagine one of the aliens inside Zelenka instead of Sheppard... or Weir...)... much more unpredictable dynamic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToasterOnFire
    -The plotline where a crewmember is forced to do things against their will because they have been taken over by something or someone has been done three times so far this season. Can we drop it now? Seriously.
    Amen. And that goes for all other sci-fi shows for the next ten years....

    Quote Originally Posted by ToasterOnFire
    -Great acting by Torri – she really portrayed the alien well. I was a bit disappointed that Weir ran around with a gun, since I remember her and a PTB stating early on that she would never use one on the show. Oh well, guess the writers would say it’s not really Weir so it’s okay, just like they excuse away all the kissing.

    -Along those lines, it would appear that TPTB is getting a kick out of jerking shippers around with possessed kisses and real/not real declarations of deeper feelings. Oh joy. Can’t wait to see what they do in season 3.
    See the "dream season" of Dallas that was all in Pam Ewings' head... that was the ultimate in "real/not real" mind-frakkings... lets hope the producers of SG1 and SGA NEVER get that desperate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToasterOnFire
    -While those lights on the wraith guns and Ronan’s gun may look cool, they stick out like a sore thumb when everything’s dark. Don’t those come with off switches?

    -It was odd to me that Ronon, who seems to shoot first and ask questions later, was so easily fooled by the alien in Shep rather than stunning him immediately and then sorting things out from there.
    Both excellent points... against the establish character of Ronon. He's a soldier, a survivor... a glow-in-the-dark gun may look cool in press photos but in a "quasi-realistic" portrayal of combat, it just looks stupid... during my own military training, glowing objects were one thing we were trained to look for - for example, small red lights at night were a good indication of someone carelessly having a smoke... we were instructed to watch the action then shoot at the spot where the red light glows - you were quite likely to score a clean kill (I never actually tried this in real life, but my rifle instructors made it sound good...). A glow spot on the back of a pistol would amount to the same thing. Ronon might like the gun, but the first thing he'd do is camouflage that light with paint or tape.

    As for the confusion with Sheppard... the best way would be to neutralize the target, then figure out the indentity later... that's what stun settings are for. Sloppy scripting as far as I'm concerned... it's a lazy writer who arranges character actions merely to advance the plot. Ronon is a pro, who would NEVER be that lax in combat - that is a hard and fast rule of his character. To have him slip up should be a momentous occasion, and maybe even a signifier of deeper, darker troubles. It should not have been done just to get him out of the way... that was one of the things about the episode that annoyed me the most.

  19. #79
    Chief Master Sergeant vandred's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Long Goodbye

    i just want to say that it was good and u can all agree with me that it was one of the best so far this season i mean. Um o yea and we finally saw another race in the pegasus galaxy that is advanced but they had to be the last 2 survivors so it sucks i mean dammit i wanted to atleast hear them say how their civilization was and how they handled the wraith, i mean it sounds like they new how to defend themselves. I just hope we actually meet some new advanced race that is still alive and could become our allies. They dont have to be all that advanced atleast ship wise if they had spaceships that would be great, because genni suck they are our enemies and we dont need more enemies
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  20. #80

    Heart Re: The Long Goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by AutumnDream
    Why are these glorious plot ideas always being reduced to the most basic simplicity within their scope of potential?
    What a really seriously excellent question. I've thought that too, and I'd like an answer to it, also. My initial guess was that the writers are churning stuff out on too tight a schedule. But other shows turn out excellent scripts w/ as little time.

    It's a shame, because it's a great cast of characters and a set-up with huge, untapped potential.

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