The Long Goodbye (216)

[mrscopterdoc]

I think this is one of my most favorite episodes of the season. I love that Weir gets a chance to do something different.

[maneth]

The Long Goodbye. Okay, but not one of my faves either. Although I must say I liked Phoebus and the personality who invaded Sheppard. Oh well, maybe now Shep and Elizabeth will have some understanding of Caldwell's discomfort with being a former Goa'uld host, and for that matter why McKay's still creeped out by Cadman.

[Blizzah]

I did not really enjoy this episode, it seems very difficult to believe that the crew would let some of the most important people at Atlantis be comprimised by alien life forces. If there had been any voices of reason this episode could not have happened. The acting was good and the fight scenes were well done, so from the perspective it was good but too much has to be glazed over in order to make the episode work. So by far not my favourite but not the worst either.

[mathpiglet]

I enjoyed that Elizabeth got to do something other than fret, but I agree that's it extremely unlikely the team would fall for that.

[Lythisrose]

From Joe Mallozzi's Blog, thoughts on this episode:
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...-long-goodbye/

THE LONG GOODBYE (216)

While the premise was great, this episode suffered from a very tight turnaround on the script. It was only days from outline approval to first draft followed by a rewrite under similar time constraints. The result = an episode that, while engaging, does give rise to a number of questions. Questions like…Wh

Why does everyone automatically believe that it is Weir they are speaking to and not the alien entity that has entered her body?

Why does Sheppard, the city’s highest ranking military officer, recklessly allow himself to be possessed by an alien entity?

In retrospect, I think these issues could have been addressed by having both Weir and Sheppard struck at the same time while both pods are being studied. Both go down and are transported to the infirmary but it is Weir who comes to first. By the time she, Phebus/Weir, realizes the situation she’s in, Thalen/Sheppard is awake and on the run.

If Phebus is so eager to “win the war” by killing her old rival, why doesn’t she do it while he’s still in the pod and vulnerable? It can’t be because of any consequences she may face at the hands of the Atlantis crew because she knows she has only a few hours to live, readily admitting as much earlier. It can be “the thrill of the hunt” because, at episode’s end, she orders Teyla to drag her bound enemy into camera range so she (Phebus) can watch Teyla kill him.

This too could have been addressed by rolling with the aforementioned scenario. If she never has the opportunity to kill him off the top, this isn’t an issue.

Why the hell is McKay unloading a weapon in John’s direction? He’s smart enough to realize that he could kill Sheppard.

This one’s simple. DON’T have McKay fire on Sheppard.

Phebus threatens to turn on (what is a deadly version of) the Halon fire suppression system and kill everyone on Atlantis. Why would the city be outfitted with a highly toxic fire suppression system? Are they cheaper than sprinklers?

Rather than go with Halon, which suggests they were an “after-market addition” on the part of the Atlantis crew, why not have the city’s last ditch fail safe protocol be an immediate lockdown and sealing of the affected areas followed by either a venting of oxygen or piping in of CO2? Both would do the trick.

There is one interesting suggestion late in the episode when Teyla has Thalen/Sheppard lined up for the kill shot. As Thalen faces certain death, he informs her: ” If you kill me, you’re killing him. He cares for you more than you know.” Thalen, of course, has access to Sheppard’s memories and thoughts, so the question here is “Is Thalen saying this because John believes Teyla loves him? Or is he saying this because John loves Teyla?”. Intriguing.

The best part of this episode was getting to see Weir/Torri kick ass.

Thoughts?

[kariesue]

I like the ep for a few reasons but it wasn't really thought out like it should have been.

I agree that Sheppard would not have so easily agreed to have the entity in his body and so that was kind of stupid. The one thing I hated about the kiss was that so many Weir Sheppard shippers used it as an example of the two of them caring for each other. But they were being controlled by alien entities and it was only a rouse to get the others to think they were married. There was nothing there shipwise.

The reality in this episode was that Thalen says to Teyla, "If you kill me, you're killing him. He cares for you more than you know." Now yes he could be saying this to try and get Teyla not to kill him. But in the end we see that Thalen was actually not a bad guy. He called for assistance for Ronon and never actually hurt anyone though he tried to kill Pheobus. I think he was being truthful and letting Teyla know that Sheppard cared for her. And you can see how truly torn Teyla is at possibly having to kill Sheppard, someone she cares for very much too. She tries to waste as much time as she can at this point.

Even Weir/Pheobus says about Teyla catching Sheppard/Thalen "I'm not surprised that you're the only one who managed to get him." She has Weir's thoughts and I'm guessing she knows how close Teyla and John are.

The scene at the end was kind of silly and I thought Weir acted goofy. Sheppard didn't seem as bothered by it though. And I always wondered about the infirmary. It's so open and they have men and women in beds right next to each other. No hospital would do that just for privacy's sake. Do military hospitals really have men and women in beds right next to each other?

[hlndncr]

I agree that Sheppard would not have so easily agreed to have the entity in his body and so that was kind of stupid. The one thing I hated about the kiss was that so many Weir Sheppard shippers used it as an example of the two of them caring for each other. But they were being controlled by alien entities and it was only a rouse to get the others to think they were married. There was nothing there shipwise.

I'd just like to comment on this. As a shipper myself (of a different pairing) I don't think we should be criticizing others' interpretive choices. Disagree fine. But if a shipper wants to see that kiss as something more then that's their choice and it doesn't limit or detract from my own enjoyment. So rather than making a definitive statement ("There is no ship.") I would suggest a reflective statement ("I do not see any ship."). It's a simple point of courtesy that can open up a more constructive dialog.

[Southern Red]

I'd just like to comment on this. As a shipper myself (of a different pairing) I don't think we should be criticizing others' interpretive choices. Disagree fine. But if a shipper wants to see that kiss as something more then that's their choice and it doesn't limit or detract from my own enjoyment. So rather than making a definitive statement ("There is no ship.") I would suggest a reflective statement ("I do not see any ship."). It's a simple point of courtesy that can open up a more constructive dialog.

Thank you for that. Shipping is such a matter of personal perception we have to be very careful not to state opinion as fact. As a John/Elizabeth shipper from way back, I'd also like to make it clear that we don't consider that kiss to be an indication of ship between them, but we appreciate it for the visual it presents. It's handy to use in vids and art, nothing more.

[ShipperWriter]

I'm a John/Elizabeth shipper as well, and I agree with Southern Red's post above. No, the kiss wasn't proof of a relationship, but we still like to see it.

Personally, I loved all the reactions from everyone else in the room. Which was exactly the point for it. They were trying to throw everybody off, and Thalen knew if she was honest and said, "Yeah, we're sworn enemies who have been trying to kill each other for years," they wouldn't have been let anywhere near each other. She had a mission, and she was going to do whatever she had to do to finish it. And I loved the clueless look on Phoebus' face while he started figuring out what was going on. LOL

Getting to see kick-ass Torri was awesome. And to a degree, I felt like everybody got played. After all, they're not perfect. No matter how much we think they are. Thalen played on their emotions, which sometimes, if not usually, overrule common sense, no matter who you are.

So even without the Sheppard/Weir kiss, I still liked the episode. Just my two cents.

[Krisz]

This well worn theme of 'alien minds taking over others' bodies to finish the feud' scenario was done a lot better in Trek VOY and DS9 episodes for me.

I still can't get over how easily everyone accepted the 'oh I want to see my husband for the last time' mushy story. Sheppard volunteering was just odd, why would someone else volunteer on the say so of an alien, especially after one jumped into Weir?!

The way it was all executed seemed very stilted, I really didn't enjoy watching this episode that much.

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

Just watched the ep. It was awesome, but it's not better than Conversion I can tell ya that. I give it a ***1/2.

Cool ending huh:


I think this season is becoming the season of bests: Joe in Conversion and Torri in this episode.

And a cool episode for sound clips (for Ronan's Gun and the Wraith stunner: Hand version).

The camera work for this episode was cool.

Tomorrow, the Genii plan a Coup.

[Lieutenant Sparrow]

A decent ep

Our soldiers are made to look like amateurs as usual. 4 or 5 guys beat up by Weir.

Torri Higginson did a great job in this ep. I thought she portrayed a different personality really well.

[Matt G]

Midweek, another ep of Atlantis...

1. Best I can tell Phoebus was able to have more of an effect on Weir because Weir had been caught off guard. Sheppard was better prepared and therefore able to give Thalen more of a headache.

2. "I know how Sheppard thinks". That aint Sheppard mate!

3. Forgot about Teyla dragging Shep in front of the camera.

4. The love story was perfectly plausible, what evidence did they have that the pair were sworn enemies?

Still a fun up.

[scifan]

One of my favorite eps.. For many reasons. Had whump, team work.... And in my POV shippiness.

I agree that Torri did awesome and should've had more roles like that. Would've loved to see her as a bad Replicator.... even if temporary.

It was nice to see them both in a different roll.
As for John being more prepared then Elizabeth, it could also be John's ATA genes. He seems to have a higher resistance to influences then others and maybe Phoebus just didn't want to show that cause it could be seen as a sign of weekness.
Phoebus was wiling to kill a lot of people for her personal gain vs Thelan. Yes, he shot Ronon, but he didn't kill him and he called it in..... guess he didn't like John yelling at him. LOL
Enjoyed the snarky banters between Caldwell and Rodney.


Some like the kiss in here just like others like the kiss in Conversion....it's just how some choose to see it.

[ZRFTS]

The Long Goodbye

So after the horrendous "The Tower", we get an episode that is a major improvement, this one. The episode concept seems like both an interesting one and a fun one; two aliens inhabiting bodies in order to settle a feud/war that has been going on for quite some time. It's something that both allows for some character-based drama when exploring the concept behind their final moments and some action as they hunt themselves down; these things are something that Stargate can truly exploit well and SGA has had a couple of these good moments under their belt so they should be able to do this without breaking a sweat...

First off, the action here is engaging and entertaining, it may be light-hearted sure but it somewhat takes itself seriously and it's balance between serious portrayal and an easy-going atmosphere is what makes it what it is. It's definitely fun to see Weir do martial arts move and roam around with a gun; what makes it fun is that she's mainly there sitting around, playing the leadership role but when an alien is inside her she gets the opportunity to prove that she can do martial arts and action stuff as well as the other guys; truly shows that there's a sort of versatility to her that can apply to her real life acting carer and Sheppard is good too though he mainly acts like Sheppard except fighting Weir... They really did a great job in showing the conflict against Weir and Sheppard, the shots displaying them really do well in showcasing the tensity and animosity they show for each other as they roam through the halls and hunt each other down; it builds the mood, it engages us in the moment and more specifically it showcases how determined these people are and the back and forwarth do well in establishing the complicated relationship that they have. To think that these two people have been fighting each other for who knows how long and to see their final wish unfold, fighting each other in the place of their dreams is something worthy of thought-processing and it reveals information about their war and certain aspects of their personalities that separate them and make them more then just hunter and hunter.

Kick butt!

However... There is something that's lacking, something involving the concept itself. The beginning is good, it sets up hopes for the episode and allows us to get engaged in the moment but when they take over their bodies; it begins to unravel slightly. The actors playing Weir and Sheppard feel the need to act radically different in order to differentiate themselves and they feel like they need to heavily enunciate and place emphasis on every word they say and they do it in an accent that makes it look like this is their first time acting, thus making it worse. These characters are supposed to be experienced soldiers in the show and that's not to say they don't have experience but scenes like this just made me think otherwise, especially when everybody is dumbed down for the purpose of the plot. It irked me that nobody could see through their act, nobody... They've been with them for a while, they know their mannerisms, style of speech and the stuff that they do is totally unlike themselves... Why can't they see through them? There is a concept about supposed trust and command issues that run subsequent to the main plot but this feels barebones and almost pasted into the episode just so it can have something to support it with. This could of been an interesting concept to explore; the characters not knowing who they are, the manipulation that's going on and with the stuff that's going on it could of been given a chance to shine but instead it's used to reference the conflict and to show that the characters are not themselves. There isn't any sense of mistrust that's established in any of the scenes; we know who they are, the characters don't doubt anything they say and it feels a bit empty to say the least.

The episode also attempts to explore the subsequent command issues of Cadwell which the episode tries to establish by including a needless previously on that could of been removed entirely, the problem is that they don't go far enough with him, the actions and tone that he does are common normal military stuff and there isn't anything serious or over-the-top that he does, he just manages the situation the best that he can. The only person who seems to complain is Rodney who while it's in his nature, seems to be there only to bring up the issue that he was compromised in a previous episode, granted it does give his scenes some ground but it never truly blossoms and while it is nice to see Cadwell take command in this episode, what the writers tried to do didn't connect with me. There seems to be more wasted ideas in this episode then there are finely executed concepts but this episode is still good; why is that? well it's just a 40 minute episode of watching these two live out their last moments in life combined with an Atlantis gone crazy episode. Through all the attempts to do something more with the episode we get moments which don't proclaim to be anything more then they are and when the stakes get raised, we're invested in it because we're invested in the action at hand. Sure, we wish there could of been more but in the end, we can't help but to enjoy ourselves plus there are some decent character moments in the episode that showcase some real drama, moments involving Beckett and Ronan for example.

Well, at least they tried...

In closing... This is one enjoyable episode of SGA; the 44 minutes will just fly by as if it were nothing. Sure there are attempts to do more but if you ever need to kill 44 minutes, this is it. Not SGA's best but then again, it doesn't need to be.

7.0/10

[jelgate]

This is clearly a bottle episode with it being shot on all Atlantis set. That said its not a terrible episode. Thier are some nice joke like how the alien possesed Sheppherd and Weir are heading for divorce. The power struggle between Caldwell and the senior staff of Atlantis was interesting. I think it made a lot of sense given that Caldwell has recently lost that symbiote that had infected his mind. Its also a pity that after this episode he doesn't have verbral arugements with Weir and Sheppherd. That was the best part about Caldwell. He was an ally but disagreed with the others sometimes. It had action seeing the two aliens using the knowledge they gained to outwit the other on Atlantis. But on the same time I look the emotional stuff like when Teyla gave Sheppherd the gun because she knew he would shoot Weir regardless who he was. But one thing that bothers me is the stupidity of Ronon. A guy who ran from the Wraith for 7 years and was a military commandar should have better strategtic sense than that.

[Jae'a]

My LiveJournal post
Wow, enjoyed it, apart from Ronon getting shot! But hey, another reason to love Carson, I guess!

[Baron Of Hell]

I liked the episode but had to check the brain at the door for most of it. Allowing your staff to be taken over, nope. Trying to kill somebody already dead, nope. Or at least one of them should have seen how dumb the situation was.

Shep was played to close to Shep. Weir was believable or she felt different to me.

[mrscopterdoc]

If there had been any voices of reason this episode could not have happened.

If there had been any voices of reason, *several* episodes could not have happened

[hazardass]

Just a couple of episodes before this one, a goauld was controlling coldwell, and people still don't quite trust him in this episode. So why did they have no problem trusting another alien consciousness that was controlling Wear? Why did they assume that Wear was in control in the very beginning? What, just because she closed her eyes and nodded, and spoke like Wear, that means the alien isn't in control? Uhm it's like these people did not just go through a goauld ordeal. How can everyone lose their mind at the same exact time, including mccay and sheppard?