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    #16
    i really enjoyed this episode like a mystery thriller i didnt suspect caldwell at all it was a nice twist did this remind anyone else of the ds9 episode in the pale moonlight how the leader has to cross a line for the greater good

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      #17
      I’m adding myself to the list of people that didn’t care for this episode (a small list so far it seems – I’m glad people enjoyed it)

      Lets get the bad stuff out of the way first:

      - The episode seemed really rushed and cobbled together. I didn’t really feel any sense of urgency and the scenes with SG Command and Teyla seemed tacked on. I think it could have been better if they did away with all that stuff and spent more time on the Trust/Gou’ld situation. I agree with the others that this probably would have been better as a 90 minute episode (but then wouldn’t they all )

      - Rachel certainly has a beautiful voice, but I didn’t really enjoy the musical interlude. It came off as a bit cheezy to me.

      - Cadman. I’m not sure why the producers went to the trouble to rewrite the part for her if they weren’t really going to use her for anything. It seemed like a wasted opportunity.

      There were some bits that I did enjoy:

      - Caldwell is the Gou’ld! Wow, that really surprised me. And I wonder how far back he was implanted? Considering the Deadalus was leaving Atlantis in the episode it must have been for a few months at least. Hopefully we get lots of follow-up on this.

      - The bits with Zelenka at the beginning and end, hilarious!

      - Kavanaugh. I love his character, I hope they bring him back more often.

      So I overall I wasn’t too impressed with this episode. I must state, however, that I got up at 6am to watch it before I left for work. So I’m going to re-watch it when I get home and am a little more awake.

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        #18
        Originally posted by d3u5
        "Ty vole, "Say hi to the kids for me", já ti dám. Ty seš takovou vůl."

        "Idiot, "Pozdravuj ode mne děti", you'll catch it from me
        . You are such an idiot."
        Muchos gracias, Sir ;p
        My Stargate Ark Of Truth Soundtrack - Signed by Joel

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          #19
          I have to agree, this was a great episode. They were going for the style that the early seasons of the West Wing had mastered, the emotional appeal in the midst of chaos. They're not quite at that level, but nonetheless a great episode.

          And again, Rachel Lutrell is a very talented singer. I was skeptical when I read that she's be singing, but wow, she's good.
          The truth is out there. Getting there, well thats a whole different can of worms.

          Comment


            #20
            Wow. Now that one had me captivated the whole time. I've been a strict proponent of "no earth interference", but I didn't mind this time. And since it looks like they fried the Daedalus hyperdrive, I wonder if we're going to be getting any more Earth - Atlantis trips for a while. Will Caldwell remain in control of the Daedalus once he's freed from the Goa'uld? Dr.Lee is hilarious. If there's a third spinoff, I hope he's the team's scientist.

            So now the wraith know we're just sitting around hidden. Crap.

            Very happy to see Zelenka. When Kavanaugh mention that Zelenka was offworld and it could be him, I was thinking, "If it's Zelenka and he has to be written off the show because of it, I'll stop watching! Okay, so I won't... but I'll be really mad!"

            I actually liked Kavanaugh though. Well... liked as a character rather than personally. He was going toe-to-toe with Weir for a while there and it was great! I wonder if she's going to start having serious doubts about her leadership. I can see bad things in the future. >.>

            Teyla was so great in this episode, acting wise. I'm a big fan of Sweet!Teyla. The singing part did seem pretty out of place to me. It would have been much more tasteful and subtle if the song hadn't been overdubbed. There should have been a few Athosians in the room just playing their instruments and Teyla singing in Ancient... and recorded right there in the room for a smaller, more ethnic feel. It would not have been as "grand" as they were trying to make it, but it would have been more beautiful and probably better fitting. It did have a slightly negative effect on the episode for me, good though Rachel was. It didn't sound like Teyla though, because of the voice differences.

            I was hoping Caldwell's eyes weren't going to do the silly glowing thing but they did. Aww. No more Goa'uld in my city please. We have much cooler badguys to deal with. I felt so sorry for him after Shep tazered him up.

            Ronon was cool, Weir was cool, McKay was cool... everyone was cool. ^_^

            Great episode!
            Last edited by AutumnDream; 06 December 2005, 02:06 PM.

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              #21
              I loved this one! A lot of things that I loved, people have already mentioned:
              -The tension between McKay and Cadman was great. I love that McKay is still weirded ut by the events of Duet.
              -Loved the 101 Dalmations (I'm a Disney freak!) and LOTR mentions. I thought it was hilarious how he mentioned LOTR, and suddenly the scientists got the idea.
              -Kavanagh - the man I love to hate. He got some great scenes in this one. Being verbally shot down by an Asgard - how embarrassing! I also love how he fainted, that was priceless. I thought it was great to see him get some real character opportunities in this one, to be put in the position where his past actions made him look like the bad guy when he really wasn't.
              -Zelenka with the kids... I would so love to hear the story on that one!
              -I thought the song was very pretty. Felt a bit out of place, maybe, but I did like how they used it as the background to the montage. Rachel has a gorgeous voice! The dub on it was pretty shoddy, though.

              On a different note, though, I felt like this episode was another big step for Weir. We're really clearly seeing the changes she's starting to go through. I can't imagine her ever authorizing torture like that at the beginning of the series. She would have argued against it vehemently. And I absolutely loved that there was a scene at the end where she did reflect on what she did - it wasn't a "shouldn't have done that, oh well" kind of a deal. She was really genuinely upset about what she did. Loved that scene! And I also loved her little sparring matches with Kavanagh - he really fired some zingers at her! It seemed to me like those insults were really stinging her. She pulled back a bit when he said that, almost looking like she was hurt and trying to hide it. Despite the fact that those insults came from Kavanagh, that's still gotta hurt.
              "Sometimes we reach what's realest by making believe..."
              My LiveJournal - My Photography - My Art

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                #22
                This was a very, very good episode, I was surprised with the Caldwell revelation, and it was good to see Hermy again, in all his glory, and anything with Zelenka is tops with me. As for Kavanagh, he has to return. He is SGA's Maybourne, or Kinsey, the guy you want to go over to and KICK!

                The only downer was Rachel singing. While she has a lovely voice, it brought the pacing to a screetching halt. This episode had too much going on, and was too rushed to begin with, and it would have been better to have the "dying elder" scenes placed into a quieter episode where the singing scene would have been more appropriate (interspersed into a clip show, for example). Here it just seemed out of place. I do like Teyla, but this just wasn't the spot to showcase Rachel's other talents.

                Overall, not too much to complain about. Carl Binder did another nice job.

                Comment


                  #23
                  I agree on the goodness of this episode. I especially liked the scene where Kavaneaugh told off Weir. He was 100% right and she pretty much knew it.

                  Some minor down points were

                  The Song: Nothing wrong with it aside from the fact that it went on a bit too long. That tense stuff with the Goa'uldified Caldwell and the city almost blowing up probably would have worked better without the happy midieval jubilee going on in the background. It was also kinda corny if you listened to the actual lyrics which I unfortunately did. Certainly no amazing grace. I'll let that slide though 'cause Luttrell did an ok job singing it. Who knew she could do that?

                  Kavanaugh fainted cop-out: Yeah ok so Weir gets to mitigate the consequences of ordering the guy tortured because the plot jumps in to save her by making it so he wasn't actually tortured for real. What was Ronan doing for the ten minutues he was in there, standing around scratching his head?

                  Things I liked

                  Kavenaugh telling off Weir as mentioned. I would rather Caldwell had eventually said it but it was nice somebody finally did.

                  No stupid deus ex machina McKay solution to get rid of the virus at the end like "I'll just reset the computers duh!"

                  Wraith cruisers not destroyed by returning Daedalus in another "humans are superior" wankoff. I was almost convinced that this was going to happen the minute they used cruisers instead of hiveships.

                  LotR reference that everybody suddenly gets after the dalmations one fails.

                  They actually think of using relay points to transmit the signal. This is downright intelligent!

                  Goa'uld plan to cause city to blow up was fairly clever and would have worked had the code not been given up. I wonder why even make a code to undo it all though. It's not like there's ever going to be a reason why he'd need one other than to cough it up if he was caught. If he'd just mashed the keyboard when it asked him for a new code Atlantis would have been screwed no matter how much they tortured him.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    This episode demonstrates loudly and clearly why I prefer Atlantis-based episodes... the city itself just makes for such fascinating storytelling and the possibilities are still largely untapped. It also allows for much more emphasis on the team. Furthermore, it reminded me why Stargate and more particularly Atlantis is a favourite of mine.
                    I loved the pacing in this one... it was appropriate to the plot... the gradual sense of urgency was conveyed through movement around the city and crossing over to and from the SGC. The reference to LOTR (which, incidentally is my favourite scene from ROTK) while being hilarious was also interesting from the point of view of the idea of critical mass and chain reaction. I'm not a huge fan of Teyla generally but I liked the juxtaposition of the "singing" scenes with the rush to evacuate and to find the access code. It reminded me of another poignant "singing" moment in ROTK.

                    Great to see Cadman again. Nice to see her in body and being actively engaged in the solution. The banter between her and Rodney is priceless and seeing her walking and chatting with Beckett at the end was quite nice. I also liked Beckett's interaction with Teyla on this one... they really have such a wonderful rapport going. Interestingly, Beckett seems to have a terrific rapport with women perhaps it stems from his closeness with his mother. Nice piece of consistent character development.

                    Kavanagh strikes again... plenty of fodder there for the Weir/Kavanagh shippers here. The man we love to hate. The man who is in deathly fear of Ronon. Now, there's a new strategy to deal with him. Anytime he doesn't behave, just let Ronon loose on him. Well, he has only himself to blame for egging Weir on about not being tough enough.
                    Still, I'm glad to see that Weir was very uncomfortable with the decision to extract information from Kavanagh... "Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown". Torri did tell us that Weir would be forced to make some pretty dark decisions down the road and I'm pleased to see that they didn't shy away from that and the consequences of doing so.

                    Poor Zelenka... I just about died laughing... I wonder if he's busy thinking of new ways to get back at Rodney.

                    FINALLY... an episode that adds to the Athosian arc...
                    FINALLY... some decent Teyla stuff without invoking the Wraith sensory angle.
                    Ah Carl Binder... you're the MAN!
                    sigpic
                    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

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                      #25
                      Whee! Can't wait to see!

                      Since I haven't watched the episode yet, I don't have much to say, but I do have one comment about SG-1/SGA crossovers in general. I'm fine with it so long as TPTB do crossovers sparingly and as in this episode, i.e. to give the Atlantis expedition more headaches, and not so much to solve any troubles that might arise.

                      I think it's interesting to consider that problems on Earth might spill over into Atlantis, and it opens up a lot of dramatic plots. Just think of the possibilities! "Critical Mass" introduces the idea of infiltration and sabotage from Earth. In this case, the culprit was looking to destroy Atlantis and, as I understand it, neutralize the threat of the Wraith to the Milky Way. Suppose, instead, someone wanted the city for its wealth of technology and knowledge. Or saw the expedition as the perfect bargaining chip (read: hostage) to use against SGC. What if the war with the Ori heats up, and Earth loses contact with Atlantis?

                      Presto! Action! Suspense! Drama!

                      And all is good.
                      The fact is I think I am a verb instead of a personal pronoun. A verb is anything that signifies to be, to do, or to suffer. I signify all three.

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                        #26
                        My problem was her singing was clearly lip synched, it didn't look very good visually even if he she personally did sing it.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          This week's ep was a terrific whodunit with just the right blend of mystery humor and pathos to keep me riveted. Well done on bringing the totally unrelated b-plot into synch with the A-plot. Rachel Lutrel has a lovely singing voice. Her scenes really plucked at my heartstrings.

                          (My one nitpick)Pity that they couldn't have arranged the room better for sound, though. Lip-sync really took away from the serenity and the drama taking place. Also, there seemed way too much musical accompaniment given the situation (anybody musically inclined here able to say how many types of instruments were used?). A clear, unaccompanied voice would have been fantastic!

                          Loved having Novak and Hermy back! Novak/Weir was a great dash of humor after the intense Kavenaugh/Weir scene. I think all the characters played extremely well off each other and liked how they all interacted with more than one character. Once again, I applaud the PTB for involving the other members of the Atlantis/Daedaleus missions.

                          Caldwell as Goa'uld. Wow! Didn't see it coming. I was seriously worried that it'd be the tap-dancing bomb expert, Cadman, who had been Zatarc-ed by the Goa'uld. Whew! I hope this isn't goodbye for Caldwell. I think it has to be goodbye for Ponytail wussy guy. No balls, eh? heh, heh, heh. I don't see how he could stay on in Atlantis after this.

                          Overall, an ep that has me enthusiastic(unlike last week's). Keep it up! Thanks.
                          Gracie

                          A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
                          "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
                          One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
                          resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
                          confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
                          A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
                          The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."


                          Comment


                            #28
                            Easily the best Atlantis ep since Runner and Siege III. One of the best they've done as well.

                            It had the SGC, it had a cast of reoccuring characters as long as my arm, it had suspence, everyone had something to do. It was great! And the song went really well over the ending.

                            Things that bugged me:

                            1. Cadman's hair. Admitedly she's much cuter with her hair like that than all tied up, but surley it's against regs for a female solider with hair that long to wear it that long, unless she was not currently on active duty.

                            2. Teyla singing. When the song first started I thought 'Oh no!', but that feeling quickly went away when I realised that the song scene wasn't a scene, it was a background piece to fit the ending of the episode, and suddenly the whole Teyla B (C?) plot had a point to it. What bugged me about the singing though was that it was so obviously dubbed. Dubbing is fine, but this looked, felt and sounded dubbed, which detracted from the bits when it cut back to Teyla (nice white dress notwithstanding).

                            Things I thought were great:

                            1. Zelenka. 'Nuff said.

                            2. Cadman, despite the hair, showing up again, and her having scene a scene with Beckett.

                            3. Kavanaugh. I love his character. Such an excellent 'close to home' bad guy. I really hope we see the repucussions of this between him and Weird episode later down the line. They might do it too. Kavanaugh showing up in Letters was a huge surprise, so TPTB obviously won't forget about him. The scenes between him and Weir were fantastic, and Hermiod telling him to shut up was great.

                            4. Agent Barret! He's the last person I expected to see on an episode of SGA. That was awesome.

                            5. Dr. Lee. I actually clapped after the 'Twilight Bark/LOTR' scene. Bill Dow is so good at that role. And I loved how everyone in the room instantly understoof what he meant when he used the LOTR analogy.

                            6. Landry and Harriman. Even if they only got one scene together, it was still good to see them on SGA.

                            7. More stuff for Teyla. As I said, I didn't really get the point of that plotline until the very end, but it worked and it gave some extra stuff for Teyla's character, which was needed.

                            8. Caldwell the Goa'uld! I did not see that coming. Moreover when Caldwell said 'What?' I actually said it at the same time. Even when Sheppherd pointed the gun at Caldwell I still couldn't bring myself to believe that Caldwell would be in leage with the trust, party because I just couldn't see him doing it and secondly because I like his character and didn't want him turned into a bad guy.

                            Then his eyes flashed.

                            And the music hit just the right notes at that point. Thankfully he seemed to be an unwitting participant in the day's events.

                            9. Hats off to Andy Makita, Brenton Spencer and the other production guys who made parts of the city look different this time around. It was a nicley put together episode.

                            10. The montage was great.

                            I'm just stoked about how good this episode was. I didn't mind Epiphany as it turned out to be different to what I expected (though could they have used a different set for Sheppherd's recovery than the exact same one that Mitchell used in Babylon), but this episode was fantastic.

                            And I'm really looking forward to Grace Under Pressure next week. Hopefully it'll live up to what I'm hoping. It's been too long since McKay and Carter (imagined or otherwise) have been in a room together (Mobius doesn't count).

                            BYE
                            "Your Star burns! I require frozen treats!" - Tycho Brahe

                            "I don't like even!" - Acastus Kolya, 1X10 'The Storm'

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                              #29
                              Hey, Cadman can have whatever hair she likes as long as Shep is in charge. ^_^ Military rules on Atlantis are pretty easy-going and different!

                              Yeah, I didn't suspect Caldwell either! I honestly didn't know who to suspect. I STILL didn't get it until a few seconds after they beamed him in. Geez... I must be getting slow in my old age.

                              I imagine Ronon was threatening Kavanagh or asking him a few more times before he started in on him. When Kav realized Ronon was gonna beat him up, he fainted. Or passed out. Whichever.

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                                #30
                                This has just replaced Letters From Pegasus as my favourite Atlantis episode. Let's list off some points:

                                Secondary characters: Caldwell, Zelenka, Kavanagh, Cadman, Walter, Lee, Barrett, Novak, Hermiod and, of course, Chuck. It was marvellous.

                                The way they set up who you suspected was that you're to think it's Kavanagh, but then that's too obvious so it must be Cadman, but they might double that back to Kavanagh. Then there's Novak who was acting a little too Novak and thus could have been a Goa'uld. That stuck with me, I was convinced it was Novak, unless Carl & Brad wanted to pull some sort of tripple-loop red herring that not even Lost is capable of.

                                The reveal was perfect. I cringed at first when Teyla started singing, but the music was quite good, edge of the seat stuff I haven't had since Serenity. Then when Caldwell was beamed away I figured, "Oh, they must be telling him about Cadman's amazing discovery" but BAM! He's a freakin' Goa'uld! I did not suspect that at all. I take my hat off to Brad and Carl.

                                The Teyla storyline wasn't that interesting, but at least she has something to do. Everyone did, even Ronan with his Jack Bauer impression. Would have been better if Ronan has given him a couple of punchs to the gut.

                                The only thing that upsets me about the episode is that nothing is going to top this, Michael and Allies might come close, but seeing as how we're going to be left on a break with The Tower... yeah, I'll have to live off this until Lost comes back in January around the same time as Michael and Allies. Ooh, 24 will be back then too!

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