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**IMForeman** · 29 November 2005, 09:02 PM

Darmok and Jelad at Tenagra. The Beast at Tenagra... Hosani, his armies. Shaka when the walls fell.

Damn that beast looked like the one in Darmok.

I like the characterization of our regular team, and some of the most memorable one liners going... but this story was kind of weak. It just wasn't really thought out as well as it should have been. Overall, the weakest of the season, but even a weak episode of SGA is still enjoyable.

-IMF

**IMForeman** · 29 November 2005, 09:04 PM

Oh, and Jarnin... the movie version of Sphere was a total dog's lunch. The novel was primo, though.

**9-Chevron** · 29 November 2005, 10:33 PM

Can you hear me now?

**Dorka** · 29 November 2005, 11:24 PM

Finally watched this episode. I don't know, many people said that it was disapointing for them, but I don't really feel like this.
I liked it more, than last weeks. There were some nice moments...like McKay comparing Ronon and Teyla to Xena and Conon...and John saying, that he didn't want to talk to a volleyball -> Cast Away

And the thing I really really really liked, was the fact that Elizabeth went with them. She was nearly as enthusiastic as McKay, while she did the translation! She really should go off-world more times...it suits her very well!

The thing I didn't like was Kirky-Sheppard. I mean, why do the men in a SciFi-show kiss nealry every women on other planets? Is that really neccesary? I don't think so!

What I also liked was the interaction between Teyla and McKay, they really work together well

Oh, and Ronon was really worried about Sheppard...more than I would have thought!

**watcher652** · 29 November 2005, 11:41 PM

Well, that was interesting. But it seemed too quick. Must have been that time dilation thing.

Random thoughts (and pardon me if some have them have already been brought up):

I don’t understand why Sheppard went thru the portal in the first place. Especially after McKay made that joke about the atmosphere. And although McKay took the blame for Sheppard going in later on, again, like in Trinity, I don’t think it’s entirely his fault. Where is the caution that Sheppard should be displaying? Again, like in Trinity, there’s no need to rush. Come back with a real MALP.

For some reason, the portal thing made me think of a quantum mirror, something McKay should be aware of.

McKay seemed extra snippy at Ronan in this part of episode. And that was mean of McKay to later call Ronan and Teyla, Conan and Xena. But not to their faces. I never noticed the similarity in those names before. I personally think those names are a compliment.

I know McKay was only going for an approximation but why did McKay count off the time instead of using that very big watch he wears on his wrist? Why didn’t Teyla use her watch when she needed to be more precise? She’s got to have one as part of the team. And come on, why isn’t McKay carrying a spare camera battery with him?

McKay is so frazzled he doesn’t think to write Sheppard a note. Not even after he thinks to write Sheppard a note.

Hey, when Sheppard leaves, why doesn’t he leave a note? He had plenty of rocks to use, but surely he must have had a pen and some paper on him with all those vest pockets.

Why does Sheppard keep his beard when he was in the village. Just to be different?

Is Elizabeth the only one who’s fluent in Ancient? Now that we have contact back Earth, can’t we get more linguists? I know Daniel is busy (and please, stay with SG1, please!) but there must be somebody comparable. It was nice to see her off planet, but it isn’t made clear why she’s the one that has to read the Ancient writing.

As much as I like Beckett, was it really necessary for him to go? Yes, yes, I know, always send your best into danger.

No Zelenka, but he did get a couple of mentions by McKay.

McKay actually admitted he can’t fly straight. But really, all he had to say was they needed a pilot because he was going to have to work with the equipment.

Why was the Jumper flying so far away from the time dilation crater? Was McKay just being extra cautious to be outside its influence?

Looks like the same tables were used to eat here as in the episode Sanctuary. Which would make them all purpose sanctuary tables.

How did Teyla sense that the beast was close? Just the lucky guess of a hunter? Or does her sensing ability extend to more than just the Wraith?

Looks like the team was walking thru the same field as in Duet. Which kind of looked like the same field as in Sanctuary. At least it looks like the same flowers as in Duet. I actually like that. When people complain that all the planets look alike, I think they should. Humans have a narrow range they can live in.

I liked how McKay and Beckett stay close to Elizabeth to protect her. McKay looked better with his gun than Beckett did, as it should be.

I liked the way the beast was portrayed. But, like Sheppard, I said “That’s it? That’s all it took?” when it disappeared. Why didn’t that girl foresee that?

Originally posted by IMForeman

Darmok and Jelad at Tenagra. The Beast at Tenagra... Hosani, his armies. Shaka when the walls fell.

Damn that beast looked like the one in Darmok.

Thanks! It was nagging at me. I knew it looked familiar.

Loved McKay’s line, “What’s with you and Ascended women?” And Sheppard’s shrug back. Must be an ATA gene thing.

Again, McKay is deprived of a ZPM.

Yes, the math bugs me, too. If we say that the ratio is 1 to 240, then 1 hour equals 10 days. Six months is about 180 days, so it should have been about 18 hours and not “just a couple of hours” like Elizabeth says it was. But, are we using Earth days, Atlantis days, or Time Dilation planet days, which could be a faster rotation and have more days pass in less time?

I did love the scenes of seeing the whole main cast all together off set. That’s a rare thing on this show.

I though this was nice staging: Sheppard asks, “Where the hell were you?” and the others line up to talk to him. The beast shows itself and while Sheppard is facing the right direction, everybody else has to turn around and look up. The coordination of all the actors was very good. Then Sheppard moves forward thru the line. Ronan follows, pulling out his sword out of the ground. Teyla and McKay also move forward, but Beckett and Weir stay put. I liked how Sheppard’s team all moved together to protect the others that don’t have much off world experience.

Ronan didn’t look too impressed with the glowy thing.

I think this episode has more logic holes than an episode normally does. I’m always willing to suspend belief for the sake of the show, if we learn something new, whether it be new tech or a new personal revelation for one of the characters. That didn't really happen here.

But despite all that, and the big let down of the beast just going away without much effort, I did enjoy watching it because we got to see more of Sheppard than we usually do. And getting a look at his reactions to things that no one else in Atlantis is ever going to see. And, yeah, John in a beard was nice.

I thought we were going to have an epiphany from Sheppard, but I guess those people on that planet were the ones who had one. Although I’m not very clear what it was. It didn't seem they had to work very hard to get it.

**Shep'sSocks** · 30 November 2005, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by gambit

To be fair, JF only wrote the idea, but the staff writers wrote took what he wrote, ripped it apart and wrote the screenplay.

I'm betting JF's original idea was a lot more interesting and had backstory instead of a beast.

**Shep'sSocks** · 30 November 2005, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by AutumnDream

The story was actually pretty simplistic unfortunately, but it left open some pretty interesting stuff. For one, the special little ascension sanctuary remained intact. I can't see how this could possibly NOT be revisted later.

If only because it provides a sanctuary for people in the Pegasus galaxy, like they wanted Proculus to be.

**Shep'sSocks** · 30 November 2005, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by AutumnDream

What does that MEAN? He "gave them the strength to realize it" or whatever. I'm all for being analytical with literature, but that wasn't a cleverly crafted metaphor or complexity, it was just rushed. Especially because I think it showed him in the cave more than it actually showed in connecting with the villagers.

In A Hundred Days, you could really feel O'Neill starting to be part of the community. I think Sheppard was more reluctant than that, but it really did seem like he was only there a couple of hours.

The ending was kind of 'Oops, we only have two more minutes, we need to finish the episode.'

**lily** · 30 November 2005, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by Yeade

c) he was an Ascended Ancient but got booted out because of his smartass attitude, memory erased

And he descended naked like Daniel? I want to see that

**caty** · 30 November 2005, 05:44 AM

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned what Shep said in one scene with Teera when they were taking a walk through the fields. I'm not 100% that I got the lines right though..

Teera: I'm glad I finally got you out, you've been alone in your room for so long.
Shep: I am being depressed.

I mean, did he really say that? If he did, it surprises me, because he isn't the person to admit feelings like that and it didn't sound like he was joking, either.

Anyway, I loved the scene, it's so sweet to see that Shep misses home (Atlantis)..

The look during his first meditation... I just wanna hug him, he looks so sad!
BTW: I think this might have been a scene that was originally set after a bad memory of Earth/Afghanistan. IMHO, they did shoot that stuff, but TPTB cut it out eventually because of time issues..

**Shep'sSocks** · 30 November 2005, 05:53 AM

I thought he looked bored during the meditation. He was certainly asleep during the second one!

**mcalex22** · 30 November 2005, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by Tok'Ra Hostess

I just saw the ep. It was okay viewing but nothing fancy.

The story reminded me of an existential SF novel I read in school about twins who found a shed inside which time went faster. One of the twins - the skinny, gentle, feminized, picked-on-by-his-big-athletic brother one - decided to spend the night inside the shed so that when he emerged he'd be a year older than his brother and of course, he grew into a real man. Anybody recognize it?

While this will be off topic, I had to respond and say yes, I've read that novel too!!!

I read it when I was in high school and I loved that story... I can't remember the title but I have never forgotten it because I liked that idea and I thought the ending was a little sad. Wow, this is amazing to meet someone else who has read this!

On to Epiphany, I've really enjoyed reading everyone's comments and opinions, both positive and negative in this thread.

I loved this episode and possibly love it even more than the Hive.

I thought Joe did an amazing job and it's nice to see a little more of Sheppard. As I was watching the episode I was extremely impressed by his handling of Sheppard's predicament because it really drew me into the show. I felt very sad for Sheppard and I could see his frustration, his desperation (when he threw the radio), his anger, his depression etc... I felt really sorry for him that he was in the cave and didn't know why his team hadn't come for him. And you know, I liked the fact that he never gave up hope that his friends would come for him.

I agree with others' comments that it would have been nice if they gave us some backstory to his character and more insight as we still don't know much about Sheppard... like perhaps more into his personal life etc.

I really didn't notice the Capt Kirk routine much. I didn't think it was OTT and I'm probably in the minority but the ancient chick seemed nice and I liked the fact that Sheppard got to romance someone. I like seeing that with his character coz it made him happy.

The special effects seemed good to me... probably not spectacular but maybe it was a budget issue. Afterall, they do tend to have "cheaper" episodes and more "expensive" episodes...

I also enjoyed the team dynamics - that's the bit I look forward to every week when I watch Atlantis. Really really enjoying Teyla and Rodney. Teyla and Ronon and Ronon and Rodney! I was very surprised that McKay actually admitted it was his fault, it was Radek's idea and he can't fly in a straight line. Poor Carson though... endless teasing from Rodney.

I had read some comments in one particular thread here (won't name names but I'm never visiting that place again!) that have really upset me or gave me the impression that this episode was horrible. Suffice to say there were many negative comments made about one or two of the other characters... which really depressed me.

So, I was pleasantly surprised that I really enjoyed this episode (but it could be that I'm a sappy person!) and really loved all the characters here.

I just found it strange that in the whole of Atlantis, Weir is the only one who can read Ancient that well? You mean they don't have a linguist??? Her going on an away mission and stepping through the barrier was a bit of a risk - I mean she is the leader and something could have happened to her! I got the impression that maybe John's heroism and self-sacricie tendencies were rubbing off on her!

Personally though I liked the idea of Elizabeth going off-world and I thought she showed a lot of concern for Sheppard and her comment about the beard seemed very personal. But I don't mind it.

I almost thought they were going to do a group hug or something at the end when John conceded that he missed them. And of course, the ever lovely and patient Teyla was so sweet about it, calming telling him that he was not far from their minds and admonishing Ronon slightly.

And I don't know if anyone else has commented on this, but I loved the soundtrack and the score. I'm one of those people who watch Atlantis and actually listen to the music.

The only criticism I have about this episode was that the solution to the beast seemed a bit weak! I mean, they just thought it away??? I know it was a manifestation of their fears but still...

Well those were my thoughts!

Ta,
Alex

**Tok'Ra Hostess** · 30 November 2005, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by Yeade

As I understand it, McKay only really starts to rake across the nerves when he's genuinely worried to death. Like he says in, um, "Thirty-Eight Minutes," I think, he has a certain reaction to life-and-death situations. And that's to get short with people, strung out, and panicked. Pretty realistic, actually, and rather endearing, IMO. I imagine McKay would've been particularly cross with anyone who asked questions he had to waste time---time Sheppard couldn't afford---answering. Besides, didn't he admit Zelenka came up with a brilliant idea? That's a first. And maybe a reaction to "Trinity."

I agree and enjoy his attitude when things get hot, as they did the moment Sheppard got sucked into the singularity. But otherwise he's overdoing it, IMO.

It was the opening scene with him snarking that I hated. I think that by now the character should be more respectful of his fellows, leaving the snark for stressful situations that would strip away any thin coating of respect and tolerance he's building up.

**Tok'Ra Hostess** · 30 November 2005, 06:49 AM