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  1. #21
    Chief Master Sergeant sshspooky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Teal'c
    The only two I can think it could be are A) Further distance calculation (since that is all the Stargate does anyway) so there are 1406 (38x37) other galaxies to dial to. B) Redundancy, in case the Ancient ever needed to use it. C) It looks good
    D) Only 7 chevron addresses were ever intended to be used, from the movie, but in the series they decided to use how the gate was designed to use an extra chevron for an exciting episode, but have never intended and may never intend to even look at the ninth chevron and it's function.


    Personally i'd say it must be a distance calculation as the stargate has only ever been used for travel from Point A to Point B. Maybe the ninth chevron just allows you to stop of at a swanky ancient hotel for the night before you continue with your travels. could be a necessity for long journeys.
    spook

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    A while back I presented a list of plausible theories as to what the ninth chevron could be. The theory listed here is one of them, so I'll skip that one. In no particular order:

    1. Time travel. Discussed to death, no further discussion needed.

    2. Extension. Discussed in this thread, so skipping.

    3. Other clusters. 8 symbol address = other galaxy, same cluster while 9 symbol address = other galaxy, some other cluster. Summed up perfectly by chris_h:
    7 = Local "call"
    8 = Long distance (other galaxy, same galactic cluster)
    9 = "International" (completely different galactic cluster)
    4. Additional function. Remember that the gate sees each glyph as a numeric value rather than a symbol. (the symbols are merely an interface for the user, if you will) so symbol x could tell the gate "only connect if air is breathable at the other end" while symbol y could tell the gate "do not accept calls, for lack of a better term, from dialed gate"

    Other possible commands could be: Dial a new gate for the first time, effectively adding it to the network; Disable target gate; establish wormhole as incoming (useful if your teem on the other end is under fire); only allow solid matter to enter (blocking energy shots) etc.

    5. This final theory is my favorite. Establish a wormhole to a location which does not have a gate. You send your puddle jumper through the randomly opened wormhole (no accuracy, but we expect it to open in space anyway) fly to nearby planet, assemble new stargate and return home. Only problem? Well, hope it opens at a convenient location; cause the planet very well could be on the other side of the local star. Remember, with no gate at the other end you would have little control over exactly where the wormhole opens. On the other hand, the asgard seem fairly accurate with those hyperdrives so they might be able to... these are the ancients afterall.

    I'm sure at least one of those theories is correct. Any opinions?
    We are the ori. You will be assymilated. Resistance is futile.

  3. #23
    First Lieutenant David85's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    That doesn't work at all.

    If I wanted to dial the 2nd Earth one and wasn't far away then what would I do with the 8th one?
    It’s the show that doesn’t end, it goes on and on my friends, some people started watching not knowing what it was, but they will be watching forever just because it’s the show that doesn’t end…..

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    Quote Originally Posted by David85
    That doesn't work at all.

    If I wanted to dial the 2nd Earth one and wasn't far away then what would I do with the 8th one?
    Dial your own area code, perhaps?
    We are the ori. You will be assymilated. Resistance is futile.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    We know more than 7 chevrons requires more power, therefore having a 9th chevron just to open a different gate on the same planet makes no sense. I also think gating to a galaxy outside the local cluster is unlikely, you need a zpm alone inside the cluster, outside of it would require several factors more.

    My thought is, you're counting wrong instead of chevrons 1-9 you have chevron 0-8. The 0th chevron requires a different set of protocols then Sam created in her dialing program. And likely its a special chevron which is why its not normally activated.

  6. #26
    Second Lieutenant AsgardCarnage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    nope they dont show the dialing computer in ep 1 of atlantis

    my guess is that is is an extra distance calc, because the gate is designed for distance traval.

    but u guys have to remember from what we have seen there is no way to send a specific symbol to a specific place in the dial. u have to do it in order. so u can just put in the 9th symbol it has to have the forst 8 in front. and we know that the 8th is another galaxy so the 9th will have to be another galaxy + something.

    that or the acients just like symetry and it looks better that way

  7. #27
    Chief Master Sergeant sshspooky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    since dialing more chevrons requires extra power, maybe the 9th chevron simply allows the gate to stay open longer then 38 minutes?
    spook

  8. #28
    Probie lord_rblade's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    ** VARIOUS SPOILERS **





    Okay, here we go. I’m going to begin with what I believe is Ancient History :snicker: and then move on to how I feel the gate networks work.


    Ancient History:

    First, the Ancients evolved on earth. They built the stargate network throughout the milky way and shared that technology with their allied races (particularly the Asgard, who have a regular gate in the Ida Galaxy) [The Fifth Race]. After spreading throughout the Milky Way, they decided to have some fun and go to the Pegasus Galaxy, taking their great city of Atlantis with them.

    By the time they reached Pegasus, they had been so bored to tears they had invented a new gate system (they replaced their gate during the journey). When they got to Pegasus, they installed the version 2 gates as they spread. One day, they awoke the Wraith (ha ha!) and the wraith spread, killing off the ancients, etc. Well, the only gate in the known universe designed to be used across galactic distances was the Atlantis gate. They decided to sink Atlantis in the ocean, and retreat through the stargate back to Earth, where they died from grief :snicker:.


    Gateo Mumbo Jumbo:

    First of all, version 1 and version 2 gates are basically the same except version 2 gates are designed to be able to dial faster, save power, and allow dialing remotely. There are even DHD’s designed to be attached directly to the gate, which contain attitude thrusters etc, so the gates can be placed in space. Yeah!


    The Gate: It’s façade and dialing.

    The gate has nine chevrons. These are the, I dunno, chevron-shaped objects on the gate!? For some reason, those dang earthlings number chevrons in the order they are entered. Dorks- fine, I’ll go with it. But we need to number based on all the chevrons that could be entered, and how they are entered in a complete dial. Those dang seven-didgit speed dials aren't for us ancients, they're for you youngsters.

    The first three entered are the right ones, the next three the left ones, everybody knows that. That covers the first six, and I won’t touch that with a ten foot pole. [Evolution part 1]

    Next, the top chevron. [The Fifth Race] It has TWO functions. First, as it’s role as the seventh chevron, it can do what any other good chevron does, it will encode data. When activated as any of the normal symbols, it is a distance multiplier, telling the gate how much power to draw. It’s primary function, however, is not to act like a normal chevron. When the PoO is sent, no matter where at in the order, the gate will attempt to dial. It will check the coordinates, and attempt to connect. If it can, it will lock the inner ring in place and open the wormhole.

    In the event someone wants to enter more than seven symbols before the PoO (heaven forbid) then they can either enter their local area code symbol (for a local dial) or they can enter an out of area symbol. [The Fifth Race, Atlantis: Rising Part 1] BEWARE! If you enter a long-distance dial, your gate must have extra power available to make the dial. Then, the eighth and ninth symbols add a fourth position line for greater precision, followed by the PoO being ‘locked’.

    So, to recap, from top clockwise the chevrons are labeled by the order they are encoded based on the longest phone, er, gate-dial that is possible, the ten symbol dial. 7/PoO, 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 4, 5, 6.

    7th/PoO chevron; when sent PoO, activates and attempts a lock. Otherwise, must be seventh symbol sent, and used as distance.
    1st chevron, coordinate for line A.
    2nd chevron, coordinate for line B.
    3rd chevron, coordinate for line C.
    8th chevron, coordinate for line D.
    9th chevron, second coordinate for line D.
    4th chevron, second coordinate for line C.
    5th chevron, second coordinate for line B.
    6th chevron, second coordinate for line A.

    Local Dial: 1234560
    Extragalactic (add distance): 12345670
    Extra fine targeting (in case there are extra gates in the system): 1234567890
    * Don’t forget the extra power requirement of extra-galactic dialing, and recharge your phone card, er.. zpm, before dialing.

    So, to activate your call, send the PoO symbol, and the gate will (hopefully) ‘lock’.
    Don’t forget, if you need to get a specific stargate in a system, you may want to dial the whole number out, so you don’t accidentally get routed to the wrong one. It might not be convenient, but at least it’s not dangerous.

    To initiate a special command, you would enter the commands utilizing the impossible sequences: whenever two coordinates for a line are identical.
    For example, you would enter chevron one as symbol A. Then for chevron two, you would encode symbol B. Then for chevron three you would encode symbol C. Four, C, Five B, and Six A, then hit the ByB (or send the PoO on earth) to activate.
    This would trigger maintenance command ABC. This concept allows for quite a few possible maintenance commands, and make it hard for someone to enter a maintenance command on accident (unless they are random dialing, in which case it will just appear that they did not get a lock unless the maintenance command does something funky ).


    The Gate: Connecting.

    First of all, the gate monitors the initial formation of the wormhole for viability. It runs a million or so safety checks (luv the ancients!), both on the wormhole itself and the target gate. One useful check is that if stuff blocks the formation of the event horizon at the center of the stargate [A Hundred Days], the wormhole can’t form. Another check is that it verifies the functionality of the target gates DHD. It will not connect to a world whose DHD does not respond affirmatively to the self-diagnostic. If any of the safety checks fail, it collapses the forming wormhole, and the outward appearance is that it just doesn’t connect, or ‘lock’. Many frustrated dialers will repeatedly dial, as if the gate system is busted, when in fact it is often just keeping them from gating through a star, gating into a black hole, opening a gate in molten lava, or molten naqueda :snicker: for that matter.

    I hope that is a clearer, more sec .. su .. sa.. oh never mind, a more short version of my thoughts. Comments?
    Last edited by lord_rblade; September 10th, 2004 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Forgot to add emphasis. :)

  9. #29
    Second Lieutenant AsgardCarnage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    tha gate will lock without a functioning DHD on the other side. people can gate to earth can't they? maybe they faked a working dhd with the dialing computer but the first time they wouldn't have known about the checks. but in The Torment of Tantalus the DHD was busted and didn't work.

    also another quick point people have to remember there is no way that we have seen for the DHD to tell if u are putting in the 8th or 9th symbol exsept for order. so u can't activate the 9th chevron without activating the 8th.

    so my guess is its the extra distance calculation, maybe for diffrent galaxy clusters or maybe the galaxies can have 2 digit numbers meaning u could goto ~54,000 (37*37) galaxies isntead of just 37. but i think it is a traval thing not a dimentional or time thing because we have never seen that the gate was design for anything more then travel

  10. #30
    Probie lord_rblade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    yes! an opposing point of view!

    Quote Originally Posted by AsgardCarnage
    people can gate to earth can't they? maybe they faked a working dhd with the dialing computer but the first time they wouldn't have known about the checks. but in The Torment of Tantalus the DHD was busted and didn't work.
    Quite truel. I'm working on the assumption that the gate wouldn't allow you to dial out either, until you trick it into thinking there is a functioning DHD. Based on this, to get it to dial out the first time (back in the fifties or whatever) [Torment of Tauntalus] they had to trick the gate into thinking a working dhd was present, possibly just to unlock the inner tract, before they could dial out. As for dialing back without a DHD, Carter is well aware of how to trick the gate, and no doubt teaches classes about it in her free time.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsgardCarnage
    also another quick point people have to remember there is no way that we have seen for the DHD to tell if u are putting in the 8th or 9th symbol exsept for order. so u can't activate the 9th chevron without activating the 8th.
    Like i said, yup. That's why in my theories I always use the same order, with a stop symbol (PoO) telling the gate that's all the symbols.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsgardCarnage
    so my guess is its the extra distance calculation, maybe for diffrent galaxy clusters or maybe the galaxies can have 2 digit numbers meaning u could goto ~54,000 (37*37) galaxies isntead of just 37.
    Definatley a possibility. At first I thought the best use of the 8th would be like you're implying, kinda a zip code. But then I realized every gate would have to have a huge list of all the zip codes. That's why I'm going with the distance thing carter suggested, and using one of the symbols as a 'local' symbol, that basically tells the gate not to multiply the distance. This would allow for a much greater range of dialing, but would limit the range depending on how the multiplier is used.

    We could have a more definiative answer if we could get better shots from SG:A 1:1 .. The dialing computer is shown on all the screens in the bg, but hard to see. At one point, they 'encode' chevron seven, and the screen clearly shows the top one being lit on the dialing computer. that's where i came up with my theory above. no episode has ever shown the bottom two chevrons being utilized in any form, not even extragalactically.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsgardCarnage
    but i think it is a traval thing not a dimentional or time thing because we have never seen that the gate was design for anything more then travel
    agreed, the gate doesn't do dimensional/temporal travel (intentionally).

  11. #31
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    7 = Local "call"
    8 = Long distance (other galaxy, same galactic cluster)
    9 = "International" (completely different galactic cluster)
    This is the logical choice for the 9th chevrons usage, but not too many people know about things like superclusters, so they don't understand the explanation.

    We live around a rather ordinary star that is located in the milky way galaxy. The milky way galaxy was probably made up of many smaller dwarf galaxies that originally orbited it, but were eventually consumed, making the milky way galaxy more massive.
    The milky way galaxy exists in a region of space known as the local group, and that group consists of the Milky Way, Triangulum, and Andromeda, along with satellite dwarf galaxies orbiting them. Pegasus galaxy is a dwarf that is thought to be orbiting Andromeda, but is actually very close to Milky Way at this time.
    The local group of galaxies belong to the Virgo supercluster, which is made up of hundreds of other groups of galaxies. There are millions of superclusters in the universe.

    So, here we are on a planet in the Milky Way. We have a stargate, and can easily travel from planet to planet in the milky way. It takes roughly 100 times the power to travel to another galaxy in the local group, and the only devices we know of that can supply that power is a ZPM or an "O'neill device" (The Fifth Race), and that device isn't an option anymore.
    So, if it takes a ZPM to travel to Pegasus (which is a local galaxy), how much energy do you suppose it would take to get to non-local galaxy 400 million lightyears away? And, supposing that you could attain such energy, which chevron would you use to get there?
    If the 8th chevron is a distance modifier to get to a local galaxy, then logic would seem to indicate that the 9th chevron would be distance modifier used to get to a much farther galaxy, or cluster of galaxies.

    First, the Ancients evolved on earth. They built the stargate network throughout the milky way and shared that technology with their allied races (particularly the Asgard, who have a regular gate in the Ida Galaxy) [The Fifth Race]. After spreading throughout the Milky Way, they decided to have some fun and go to the Pegasus Galaxy, taking their great city of Atlantis with them.
    Why, oh why do people insist that the ancients evolved on Earth, even though there is not a shred of evidence in either the show, or the fossil record to prove it? If the ancients evolved on some planet in a galaxy far, far away, would that make us feel more insignificant?

    Also, the show's writers have redesignated the Asgards galaxy to "Othala". It's not Ida anymore. And the logical reason for why the Asgard galaxy has the same type of gates as the milky way would be due to the fact that the Othala galaxy is orbiting the milky way.

    1. Ancients travel to the milky way and begin depositing stargates on all of the habitable worlds. When they're done there, they move on to the worlds of the satellite galaxies nearby (including Othala).

    2. After a few million years (30 or so) the ancients decide to populate another galaxy that is nearby (Andromeda), but since one of Andromeda's satellites is traveling close to the Milky Way, they'll start there first (Pegasus). New galactic star gate system, new stargate design based on the newest ancient technology.

    Personally, I think that the ancients were not native to the milky way. More than likely, they came here to spread life, just like they went to Pegasus to do the same. That means that there very well could be many many ancient human cultures in other galaxies that we don't know, because we don't have the power to even start looking.
    Not to mention that it allows the franchise to continue for a long long time, with lots of galaxies to explore in future series.

  12. #32
    Probie lord_rblade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin
    It takes roughly 100 times the power to travel to another galaxy in the local group, and the only devices we know of that can supply that power is a ZPM or an "O'neill device" (The Fifth Race), and that device isn't an option anymore.
    Um, I saw that episode too and carter said 10 times. Typo?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin
    Why, oh why do people insist that the ancients evolved on Earth, even though there is not a shred of evidence in either the show, or the fossil record to prove it?
    Um, Jarnin, have you watched both series? I recommend [SG Atlantis: Rising Part 1] for some useful tidbits.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/races/a/ancients.shtml
    Ayiana was left behind by the Ancients when they left Earth with the city of Atlantis, moving to the Pegasus Galaxy between five and 10 million years ago.
    Perhaps I could recommend a good download site for the latest episodes if you're missing out Jarnin?
    Last edited by lord_rblade; September 11th, 2004 at 01:44 AM. Reason: added quote

  13. #33
    Second Lieutenant AsgardCarnage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    not really spoilers but ehers some space any way for atlantis 109 home
















    the say that the atlantis gate is the only one that can connect to earth via the 8th symbol because it is a unique DHD with an 8th control crystal. so not even atlanstis could use the 9th symbol they would have to make a new dhd in order to use it. so either there is a 9th symbol DHD out there we havn't found yet or the acients just put it on the gate for exspantion space later.

    if we wanted to test it would need to use the earth gate with a fully powered ZPM (so u know u have enough power/ more then enough) and write a new version of the dialing computer to use the 9th symbol then cold dial 37^8 = 3,512,479,453,921 and while i have the calculator out, assuming it takes 1 min to try and dial a location and not get a lock and move on (maybe less but easier to calc) it would take 6,851,746 years (ok i was really board) so basicly we aint never gunna find out!

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    bah... just set up a bunch of allied planets with dialing computers that do dials to those addresses during certain (inactive) hours; thus not rendering the planet unreachable. If you set up 6,851,746 planets doing this then you could try then all in just two years! (assuming they dial 12 hrs a day, leaving all other hours open for regular travel)

    Hey, why not add a 6,851,747th gate for good measure. Hope they find out how to manufacture zpms soon, cuz they're gonna need a lot!!!
    We are the ori. You will be assymilated. Resistance is futile.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    [email protected]

    I tried dialing chulack but i ran out of minutes, ill have to wait until 8:00

  16. #36
    Probie lord_rblade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    Quote Originally Posted by AsgardCarnage
    8th control crystal
    Sorry, made it short to avoid spoilers. When did they talk about that? I've watched all the episodes a couple times, didn't catch that.

    Oh, and Jarnin - Sorry, you're right - I couldn't find anywhere that they said they had proof that the Ancients evolved on earth, only that they had lived there many years ago.

  17. #37
    Second Lieutenant AsgardCarnage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_rblade
    Sorry, made it short to avoid spoilers. When did they talk about that? I've watched all the episodes a couple times, didn't catch that.

    Oh, and Jarnin - Sorry, you're right - I couldn't find anywhere that they said they had proof that the Ancients evolved on earth, only that they had lived there many years ago.
    ok spoiler space for Stargate: Atlantis season 1 episode 9 titles "Home"
































    at the begining when they are talking about how they can use that atmosphere's energy to dial earth, mckay said the atlantis DHD is unique and they would need to take the 8th control crystal from it and retrofit it in to the planets dhd so they could try and get a lock.

    enough spoiler space?

  18. #38
    Probie lord_rblade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theory i read on the 9th Chevron...

    ah, thx. I haven't seen that ep yet. here's a pic of my gate diagram, but i guess it might be proven wrong in that ep.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by lord_rblade; September 12th, 2004 at 01:04 AM. Reason: pic

  19. #39
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    Default puddlejumpers and the 9th chevron

    maybe the 9th chevronis used by the puddlejumpers in deep space? if they have hyperdrives - which I will be amazed if they don't (also teleporters) then maybe they deploy some kind of beacon struts like in babylon5 and then they use the ninth chevron to open a wormhole in deepspace?

  20. #40
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    Default Re: puddlejumpers and the 9th chevron

    Hey, don't look at me... I don't know. Maybe?
    There is only one thing we can ever truly control: whether we are good, or evil.

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