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    Originally posted by SoulRe@ver View Post
    eeeey at least we can agree on that part
    no really that's perhaps the most sensible explanation so far (apart from mine I mean)
    Suppose it's good to agree on one thing.
    Your explanation on the whole wormhole drive thing isn't backed up by any canon from EATG well otherwise I would have agreed with you.
    at least Unending made more sense - it took ~ 6 shots from ori beam weapon to bring down the Oddy's zpm-powered shield and roughly same number of hits from the asgard beam to bring down the ori shields (304 seemed a bit tougher but it did have an extra asgard core)
    AoT did over clock the Odyssey's abilities by a bit too much, but I guess Stargate needs it's plot shields.
    A planet exploding in your face has gotta hurt though.
    lol outside on ep (that wasn't even in SG1 or SGA - in was in ST TnG) there's very little in the way of weapons specifically designed to drain shields (plenty of space games have this sort of thing though). so generally speaking if it's good against shields then it's equally good against what's behind the shield
    besides if it's plain "heat" as u say then more of a reason for it to burn through matter like hot knife thru butter. heat is heat, as pure energy as u get
    anyway a weapon's primary purpose is to damage its target not what protects the target (unless it was specified that the asurans had a second weapon waiting to be fired thru the gate once the red beam had brought down the shield, vbut not so iirc)
    That's the only thing I could really think of and it would seem to fit with what the stargate/ship, satellite thing did.
    Maybe it's effects on matter weren't that great coz it wasn't a really focused beam.
    I imagine Atlantis is pretty fragile without it's shields so I doubt if the Asurans pieced that thing together in a rush that they'd want anything more than something that could get the job done and they had time, along with stacks of ZPMs.
    so no extra power for the weapons but enough to keep the matter replicators running indefinitely during wartime & have infinite supply of food & water ? ^__^
    No enough energy to fully power all of their technology indefinitely, to it's physical limits, with enough left over should they need to install new toys like cannons that can annihilate Wraith fleets within a matter of seconds.
    lol air takes space eh
    those bridges can transmit enough power to empty a zpm in a matter of seconds & the whole device isn't that big anyway
    What about the end user components?
    You'd only be able to make them so good before you have to start making them bigger to use more power.
    at least that might some sense (basically they could do it but chose not to) but that would still be plain PIS especially considering the context (that cityship was the only thing that stood between them & extinction)
    But if they know they can go anywhere through the gate, to another galaxy where they can't be reached by the Wraith then it makes sense.
    They left Atlantis where it was, it was safe from Wraith fire under the ocean, if they ever raised it above the water and it had enough Drones then it'd be all hell breaking lose for the Wraith, if they were still there.
    Considering Atlantis can't even launch Drones at half the rate an Aurora can it does seem support by canon.
    maybe the drive keeps recharging (for next jump) so unless it's "unplugged" it does keep using a lot of power
    It's possible and would seem like a feasible explanation except we don't hear it said that the Wormhole Drive uses buffers to store energy for another jump, or that there was a general power drain over the whole of the city which would have added to the impact of the battle IMO.
    It'll have to stay in the speculation category or fanon, I'll leave you to chose.
    hehe believe it or not some ppl actually register here just to voice their hatred (that's why the mods had to create separate threads in the hope of shunting all the haters away from the normal parts of the forum. tough luck with that though)
    That I can believe, some people are just sad.
    ok then stop making up completely unsubstantiated scenarios that only take away from said credibility to the point where it looks like the only rationale behind these is to kill the show (in ~subtle way admittedly)
    I'm not, the things I'm mentioning are supported by canon.
    didn't it take out a whole hive fleet quickly
    Yeah but so could a whole bunch of Ancient satellites each powered off of a Mark 1 Naqueda generator.
    When fully charged I think it was said that one of those satellites could easily kill 3 Hives, so 10 could kill 30 Hives.
    Roll the abilities of those 10 satellites into one smallish cannon and it doesn't really seem like it would require anywhere near a ZPMs output let alone 25 of the things.
    zelenka > "as power output increases, new and exotic particles are continuously created and destroyed inside the containment chamber, interacting with each other and with the field itself. Eventually particles are created that cannot be prevented in this space-time, and they breach the containment field as hard radiation."
    it's the exotic particles that cause the overloadp
    It says as power output increases.
    More and more power being tapped caused more exotic particles to be created and the energy couldn't be vented fast enough by the cannon.
    It's energy, energy's the catalyst.
    Plot Induced Stupidity
    Cheers for clearing that up.
    ok so the city is primitive tech then
    I noticed you didn't actually answer the questions.
    but you said they couldn't..
    No I didn't, I said the components couldn't make full use of in instant generator power dump.
    The generator could fully power the technology, it's a completely different thing.
    so it was useless from a military p.o.v but useful to keep the toilets & food dispensers running forever ? ^^
    No it'd fully power every piece of technology on board a ship and be able to do it forever (unless the generators failed).
    no they'd just need to overload it. their whole fleet was a lot > 10 hives IMO
    How do you know enough blast energy would meet the shields?
    10 Hives are only enough to drain the ZPM(s) within days with 1, if you have infinite longevity in your power source then how would the Wraith actually drop the city's shields with their standard power level Hives.
    The Super Hive must have had weapons that fired shots capable of stressing the shields when they're fully powered, to be able to drop them a certain percentage.
    of course everything has a limit. it's the alleged limit that's a little harder to accept, unlimited PIS can be amusing but there should be limits :/
    I didn't create the limits the writers did.
    ah there we go
    You could bring out that argument for so many things on the show, but in the end you've gotta look at the canon and use it.
    damn what was the original topic about again ?
    Infinite power doesn't always mean an infinite shield.
    ori tech is primitive ? yeah that's rational
    No, some races could just make better things than others, despite their age.
    Anyway how would you define primitive?
    Isn't it a matter of perspective?
    same as b4, no reason thyey wouldn't upgrade their last ship to the best of their abilities. especialyl since they didn't even bother to put a phase-cloak on it, nox style (so at least they'd be able to run & hide)
    oh ?
    Phase Cloaks came after ascension in SG.
    Atlantis was their outpost, it probably has the same abilities as the outpost on Earth and some when on the ground.
    k so they tuned down their ships to give the good guys a fighting chance. reminds a bit of the hidden conduit on the Death Star that led all the way to the core. guess the imperials wanted to give the rebels some hope (hence "A New Hope"). lol
    No they built a ship they thought could deal with anyone that could stand against them.
    Remember they stomp on regular pre-unending Asgard vessels, Ha'Taks and 304s (ZPMless).

    Comment


      Originally posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
      Suppose it's good to agree on one thing.
      Your explanation on the whole wormhole drive thing isn't backed up by any canon from EATG well otherwise I would have agreed with you.
      backed by mckay> "this might look easy, but it’s actually a little more complicated than just flipping a switch." (when plugging zpm into the 304) and zelenka> "it's an adaptation of an Ancient technology which was abandoned because of instability and enormous power requirements." (about the wormhole drive) and also by a bit of faith (hopefully not misplaced) in the writers having a bit of common sense left in them :/
      A planet exploding in your face has gotta hurt though.
      couldn't have been that big a planet (not even visible "shockwave ring" thingie ). Oddy was far away. officer at the console would've at once said how much of the shield went down anyway (instead he waited for the ori to fire 1st hit then said "shields down to 85%" so about 6 hits are enough to take out the shields)
      That's the only thing I could really think of and it would seem to fit with what the stargate/ship, satellite thing did.
      Maybe it's effects on matter weren't that great coz it wasn't a really focused beam.
      it wasn't a "conic" beam so distance matters little besides the asteroid was closer so it should've hurt more
      I imagine Atlantis is pretty fragile without it's shields so I doubt if the Asurans pieced that thing together in a rush that they'd want anything more than something that could get the job done and they had time, along with stacks of ZPMs.
      pieced it together ? looked like they'd done a good job of it (so much so there was no visible difference !)
      No enough energy to fully power all of their technology indefinitely, to it's physical limits, with enough left over should they need to install new toys like cannons that can annihilate Wraith fleets within a matter of seconds.
      maybe no all but at least the shields (and that's the very reason why they'd have developed the device to begin with)
      What about the end user components?
      You'd only be able to make them so good before you have to start making them bigger to use more power.
      good then make 'em bigger then lol. point is they could if they wanted to
      and they had every reason to want to (<- tauto-logical I know)
      But if they know they can go anywhere through the gate, to another galaxy where they can't be reached by the Wraith then it makes sense.
      the cityship's kinda big to fit through the gate :/
      They left Atlantis where it was, it was safe from Wraith fire under the ocean, if they ever raised it above the water and it had enough Drones then it'd be all hell breaking lose for the Wraith, if they were still there.
      big prob with the drones : they're in limited supply. don't even know if the cityship can replicate them (by the time SGC had explored over half the cityship they'd have surely discovered something as vital as this)
      Considering Atlantis can't even launch Drones at half the rate an Aurora can it does seem support by canon.
      hell the main city of the ancients doesn't even fire them at one hundredth of the rate of fire the outposts built by the same race is able to. lol
      I'm not, the things I'm mentioning are supported by canon imagination.
      fixed :|
      Yeah but so could a whole bunch of Ancient satellites each powered off of a Mark 1 Naqueda generator.
      When fully charged I think it was said that one of those satellites could easily kill 3 Hives, so 10 could kill 30 Hives.
      Roll the abilities of those 10 satellites into one smallish cannon and it doesn't really seem like it would require anywhere near a ZPMs output let alone 25 of the things.
      and yet they give the device a far greater output than a zpm instead of just making it an "everlasting zpm"
      It says as power output increases.
      More and more power being tapped caused more exotic particles to be created and the energy couldn't be vented fast enough by the cannon.
      It's energy, energy's the catalyst.
      Cheers for clearing that up.
      so the exotic particles are the energy ! chrs for clearing that up even more :|
      I noticed you didn't actually answer the questions.
      sure I did, u just quoted the answer
      No I didn't, I said the components couldn't make full use of in instant generator power dump.
      The generator could fully power the technology, it's a completely different thing.
      k so basically you saying the generator can fully power things that cannot be fully powered
      No it'd fully power every piece of technology on board a ship and be able to do it forever (unless the generators failed).
      good then the original question is answered then (amongst others) : definite no :|
      How do you know enough blast energy would meet the shields?
      ? what's the deal with a meeting ??
      10 Hives are only enough to drain the ZPM(s) within days with 1, if you have infinite longevity in your power source then how would the Wraith actually drop the city's shields with their standard power level Hives.
      The Super Hive must have had weapons that fired shots capable of stressing the shields when they're fully powered, to be able to drop them a certain percentage.
      yeeah and with only 1 zpm & therein lies the problem, makes no sense
      btw wraith power generation couldn't have been that more primitive compared to zpe (otherwise yet another splendid inconsistency...)
      No they built a ship they thought could deal with anyone that could stand against them.
      Remember they stomp on regular pre-unending Asgard vessels, Ha'Taks and 304s (ZPMless).
      so you think they could've made their ships better of they knew the asgard had come up with new weapons ?
      still, no reason they wouldn't make their ships as good as they could (as opposed to "just good enough")
      besides even if they *somehow* had the intel on the capabilities of the asgard along with the military capabilities of the main MW forces then they'd have known what the asgard were capable of. those new beams were developed rather quickly so it's not like it was leagues beyond season 9's asgard science
      You could bring out that argument for so many things on the show
      exactly. just trying to limit the damage see
      Infinite power doesn't always mean an infinite shield.
      it should
      No, some races could just make better things than others, despite their age.
      better yes. it's how much better that makes difference between acceptable & ridiculous even for sci-fi (see 2 quotes above)
      Atlantis was their outpost, it probably has the same abilities as the outpost on Earth and some when on the ground.
      a lot more primitive apparently
      Anyway how would you define primitive?
      not advanced
      Isn't it a matter of perspective?
      I miss Zippy too
      Last edited by SoulReaver; 14 July 2009, 03:13 PM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by SoulRe@ver View Post
        backed by mckay> "this might look easy, but it’s actually a little more complicated than just flipping a switch." (when plugging zpm into the 304)
        You said it yourself this was actually referring to the ZPM being plugged into the 304, it has absolutely nothing to do with the wormhole drive, being that McKay made that statement in Echoes which was in season 3 of SGA.
        Just coz it’s not simple to install a ZPM into a 304 that in no way means it’s hard to operate wormhole Drive.
        That’s not even an example of something relating to two pieces of Ancient tech having trouble being integrated with each other.
        and zelenka> "it's an adaptation of an Ancient technology which was abandoned because of instability and enormous power requirements." (about the wormhole drive)
        All that statement tells us is that a piece if technology that was designed and built by the race who designed and built the city the wormhole drive was created for wasn’t safe and needed a lot of power.
        This doesn’t support your claim that the wormhole drive was still draining power when Atlantis had arrived at Earth.
        and also by a bit of faith (hopefully not misplaced) in the writers having a bit of common sense left in them :/
        Where does faith have to come into it? that’s not gonna effect how the tech works, the writers tell us everything we need to know.
        Again with the common sense/credibility thing, reading things as they were wrote, or taking them at face value of what they are saying is all we need to do to get to the end of the issue, filling in holes where there are none is entirely unnecessary.
        couldn't have been that big a planet (not even visible "shockwave ring" thingie ). Oddy was far away. officer at the console would've at once said how much of the shield went down anyway (instead he waited for the ori to fire 1st hit then said "shields down to 85%" so about 6 hits are enough to take out the shields)
        It’s still a planet exploding, whatever the size of it that’s a lot for a ship to take and Odyssey wasn’t that far away, definitely not millions of miles from Orilla considering the planet’s still visible and pretty big on screen, as for the shockwave ring yes there is one visible which can be seen here, in fact all this stuff can be seen in this link below:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbbkgcNCNqM
        When the Ori start attacking (not necessarily from one ship at a time considering we don’t see the actual impact on the shields in space and there are 3 Ori ships there) the shields are said to drop to 83%, then there’s another impact (felt on the bridge but not seen in space), the planet then explodes and it’s said the shield has dropped to 50%, that’s quite a big drop if it’s just one shot, you’re talking about 33% of the shield in a single hit, which would mean 99% in 3 hits, with the fourth penetrating and likely destroying the ship, that‘s about the same as a 304 without a ZPM can take.
        it wasn't a "conic" beam so distance matters little besides the asteroid was closer so it should've hurt more
        I don’t know what a conic beam is, but it’s probably just a matter of artistic licence with the beam, I was just thinking of how it could work, but TBH I’m not that bothered about it really.
        pieced it together ? looked like they'd done a good job of it (so much so there was no visible difference !)
        I meant made it there and then.
        I didn’t say they did a bad job of it and I’m not surprised it looked well finished considering they can construct a mass of ships in a little over a month.
        maybe no all but at least the shields (and that's the very reason why they'd have developed the device to begin with)
        Well the shield is the thing we’re really chatting about.
        The fact that you can fully power it, but it can only use up so much energy and the amount of power it’s designed to work with.
        The weapon was obviously important and Arcturus would mean they could burn off as much energy as they liked (within the limits of what they could make those weapons capable of achieving) and still have instant access to plenty more ammo.
        good then make 'em bigger then lol. point is they could if they wanted to
        and they had every reason to want to (<- tauto-logical I know)
        Of course make them bigger, I agree with that, but there’s a limit of what they could do, you know they’d be limited by how many resources they had to build their hulls, wiring, toys.
        the cityship's kinda big to fit through the gate :/
        I meant if Ancient personnel wanted to go through the gate, to get somewhere else they could and leave the city behind like you know they did in the end when they left Lantia.
        big prob with the drones : they're in limited supply. don't even know if the cityship can replicate them (by the time SGC had explored over half the cityship they'd have surely discovered something as vital as this)
        That’s why I said “if it had enough“.
        hell the main city of the ancients doesn't even fire them at one hundredth of the rate of fire the outposts built by the same race is able to. Lol
        I was trying to be kind to the city, but yeah Atlantis does suck in that regard and Drones don’t even appear to be that power hungry a technology unless maybe you’re firing them in the thousands per minute.
        fixed K
        Uh it was fine as it was thank you very much.
        You’re the one who tried to use your imagination to make out like wormhole drive is some system that can’t be switched off once it’s turned on.
        How petty.
        You still can’t even disprove that shields can only use up so much power so doing that is just ridiculous and the same goes for the whole Odyssey getting hit by a planet thing too.
        and yet they give the device a far greater output than a zpm instead of just making it an "everlasting zpm"
        The Universe was gonna be around for a while, contains an enormous amount of power and Arcturus could (if it had actually worked and been safe to use) have carried on tapping power indefinitely, hell even if the Ancients were going to isolate a region of the vacuum it would mean 25 times the available power of a ZPM per ZPM, meaning it would last 25X longer than a ZPM would, so if at the end of the war the Ancients had left Atlantis powered by an arcturus module under the ocean on their home it would have survived for some 80 odd thousand years rather than 10,000 years if the city was powered off of one arcturus if untouched by Wraith weapons fire.
        We never heard it said Arcturus was gonna be used to isolate a set amount of power from the vacuum.
        so the exotic particles are the energy ! chrs for clearing that up even more
        I don’t even know if you’re being sarcastic there or not, if you are this is from the GW transcript of the episode:
        McKAY: OK, we need to leave. I've waited too long -- the weapon can't discharge enough power to avoid a catastrophic overload. This whole planet's gonna go up. (He shuts his laptop and hurries to the ladder, then turns to John.) Not that your speech wasn't working. (He starts to climb.)
        Exotic particles aren’t mentioned.
        sure I did, u just quoted the answer
        It wasn’t a straight yes or no answer to the questions, which is what I was asking for.
        Saying the city’s primitive doesn’t let me know whether you think it can use up what a ZPM can put out at it’s fastest available pace, through regular tech like shields, etc.
        k so basically you saying the generator can fully power things that cannot be fully powered
        No
        The tech has it’s limits, if for instance it was a speaker driver, that driver may only be designed to use 40 watts of power (that‘s the number of watts it‘s being fully powered at), the amp may be able to put out 400 watts or more, but the amp could only put 40 watts into the speaker and that’s all the speaker could make use of, if the amp tries to push more power into the speaker then it may blow, SG tech may not blow when it has the full amount of power it was designed to make use of, but it will have reached the level it was designed to work at and will be fully powered, the generator would just have output to spare.
        good then the original question is answered then (amongst others) : definite no K
        So you agree that shields wouldn’t be infinite even if they were powered off an infinite energy source and being hit by something with enough of an impact?
        ? what's the deal with a meeting ??
        I meant enough of the blast energy hitting the shields.
        yeeah and with only 1 zpm & therein lies the problem, makes no sense
        btw wraith power generation couldn't have been that more primitive compared to zpe (otherwise yet another splendid inconsistency...)
        Well then it doesn’t make sense, unless you take it that Hives and Cruisers are being powered on something that’s less than 1% as potent as a ZPM, possibly across the entirety of the siege fleet in The Siege part 3.
        Obviously regular Wraith pwer generation sucks big time compared to a ZPM.
        so you think they could've made their ships better of they knew the asgard had come up with new weapons ?
        Who knows?
        It’s possible they were just so over confident (on an enormous Ego trip from their human drug) that they thought their ships were good enough, TBH that’s the only thing that makes sense there.
        still, no reason they wouldn't make their ships as good as they could (as opposed to "just good enough")
        I agree, but it could be that they just couldn’t foresee anyone making something that could harm their ships.
        besides even if they *somehow* had the intel on the capabilities of the asgard along with the military capabilities of the main MW forces then they'd have known what the asgard were capable of. those new beams were developed rather quickly so it's not like it was leagues beyond season 9's asgard science
        Maybe they didn’t have that intel, they just built them as tough as they thought was necessary, otherwise it may have meant they couldn’t have had the imposing numbers of ships they did.
        I know they only came to the MW with 4 in the beginning, but it looked like they had a few dozen and had built them in only a few months.
        The Ori couldn’t think of everything, even being ascended.
        exactly. just trying to limit the damage see
        I’d rather just look at the show and take at it’s face value, rather than having to come up with things that aren’t supported.
        it should
        I think you already know what I’m gonna say to this.
        better yes. it's how much better that makes difference between acceptable & ridiculous even for sci-fi (see 2 quotes above)
        Well then it’s ridiculous, but it’s fact and you can’t argue with the facts (well some may try but they don’t have anything to support their theories so they don’t hold any weight).
        You could always re-write things in your own fan fiction to fit with what you think would be consistent and acceptable.
        a lot more primitive apparently
        We haven’t seen the city fire Drones in more than a few at a time from the ground in The Siege part 2, it’s never been stocked up and had to cream a bunch of Hives, I still think it could at least match the outpost on Earth.
        not advanced
        Compared to who?
        Does it just have to be a tech thing.
        Is it just that they have bigger guns than the next race or would advanced mean they won’t cut each other’s throats at the first chance they get?
        I miss Zippy too
        You’re not talking about the old show Rainbow now are you?
        If so that’s not on topic, I’m sure you could find a forum somewhere on the net to talk about that show if you wanted.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
          You said it yourself this was actually referring to the ZPM being plugged into the 304, it has absolutely nothing to do with the wormhole drive, being that McKay made that statement in Echoes which was in season 3 of SGA.
          both are pieces of tech that ain't part of standard equipment on the ship they're used
          All that statement tells us is that a piece if technology that was designed and built by the race who designed and built the city the wormhole drive was created for wasn’t safe and needed a lot of power.
          This doesn’t support your claim that the wormhole drive was still draining power when Atlantis had arrived at Earth.
          hey beats saying the ancients couldn't make good wiring
          Where does faith have to come into it? that’s not gonna effect how the tech works, the writers tell us everything we need to know.
          Again with the common sense/credibility thing, reading things as they were wrote, or taking them at face value of what they are saying is all we need to do to get to the end of the issue, filling in holes where there are none is entirely unnecessary.
          yeah problem is with your version common sense would dictate that the writers lacked any :/
          It’s still a planet exploding, whatever the size of it that’s a lot for a ship to take and Odyssey wasn’t that far away, definitely not millions of miles from Orilla considering the planet’s still visible and pretty big on screen,
          you realize force of impact is not linearly proportionate to distance from the planet right ? twice as far would normally mean 4 times less impact, and so on
          as for the shockwave ring yes there is one visible which can be seen here, in fact all this stuff can be seen in this link below:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbbkgcNCNqM
          yeah that's all well & good but the question here is about how powerful are the enemy weapons, and as your vid shows the explosion takes place after the enemy starts attacking
          When the Ori start attacking (not necessarily from one ship at a time considering we don’t see the actual impact on the shields in space and there are 3 Ori ships there)
          more speculation ?
          haha so all weapons just happened to all hit at the same time ?
          1 hit, ship shake, shield down to 83%. rilly nothing hard to understand about that IMO
          what was that you were just saying about having to take things @ face value & not filling in holes where there are none...could've sworn you just said it a few lines ago
          the shields are said to drop to 83%, then there’s another impact (felt on the bridge but not seen in space), the planet then explodes and it’s said the shield has dropped to 50%, that’s quite a big drop if it’s just one shot, you’re talking about 33% of the shield in a single hit, which would mean 99% in 3 hits, with the fourth penetrating and likely destroying the ship, that‘s about the same as a 304 without a ZPM can take.
          must be the added ring :|
          ok so the planet explosion took out 33% of the shield - so what ? the 1st 17% (that's one 6th as I said b4) was due to beam weapon impact from an enemy ship. and even if you for some reason divide this firepower by 2 or even 3 that's still a helluva lot stronger than in AoT
          I don’t know what a conic beam is, but it’s probably just a matter of artistic licence with the beam, I was just thinking of how it could work, but TBH I’m not that bothered about it really.
          an artistic thing, that's good (could apply to plenty of things in the show though -)
          I meant made it there and then.
          I didn’t say they did a bad job of it and I’m not surprised it looked well finished considering they can construct a mass of ships in a little over a month.
          more like they fixed it till it was as good as new, yeah
          Well the shield is the thing we’re really chatting about.
          The fact that you can fully power it, but it can only use up so much energy and the amount of power it’s designed to work with.
          or the fact that same shield should've held against a zpm-powered hive if it were powered by 3 zpms (let alone arcturus device)
          Of course make them bigger, I agree with that, but there’s a limit of what they could do, you know they’d be limited by how many resources they had to build their hulls, wiring, toys.
          rofl
          I meant if Ancient personnel wanted to go through the gate, to get somewhere else they could and leave the city behind like you know they did in the end when they left Lantia.
          they could, but abandoning their only ship/home and starting anew as cavemen on some planet doesn't exactly sound right for a space-faring race does it :/ surviving is important but it has to be worth it
          Uh it was fine as it was thank you very much.
          You’re the one who tried to use your imagination to make out like wormhole drive is some system that can’t be switched off once it’s turned on.
          How petty.
          and you're the one who's saying the most advanced race in the universe can't make proper wires
          how funny
          You still can’t even disprove that shields can only use up so much power so doing that is just ridiculous
          hey it's better than suggesting the most advanced races in the show are also primitive. wth that's beyond speculation, again just say straight out that you wanna give the show the coup de grace while you're at it lol
          and the same goes for the whole Odyssey getting hit by a planet thing too.
          speaking of imagination
          u make it sound like a planet was flung at the ship or something
          anyway this happens after the ships attack, so kinda offtopic. nice try tho -_-
          The Universe was gonna be around for a while, contains an enormous amount of power and Arcturus could (if it had actually worked and been safe to use) have carried on tapping power indefinitely, hell even if the Ancients were going to isolate a region of the vacuum it would mean 25 times the available power of a ZPM per ZPM, meaning it would last 25X longer than a ZPM would,
          uh no it's 25X the power output, big difference. in terms of actual energy reserves (that's probably what you mean here) that factor would be not 25 but more like several trillion times..
          I don’t even know if you’re being sarcastic there or not, if you are this is from the GW transcript of the episode:
          Exotic particles aren’t mentioned.
          so what, they're mentioned before. the exotic particles are the cause of the overload
          think about it, if these particles have no incidence whatsoever on the device messing up (and that's what you're saying), why would they mention it ?
          you make it sound like Zelenka was saying something like "careful it's gonna overload ! (oh yeah and btw there's these exotic particles thingies. nothing important but they just look so cool & exotic u know, just thought I'd mention it. they also cause hard radiation, nothing important either, but it's cool. plus they're inherently unpredictable so you can't predict them. nothing to do with our prob, but figured you'd find that interesting too. also my boxers are pink. just to let you know)" lol
          It wasn’t a straight yes or no answer to the questions, which is what I was asking for.
          Saying the city’s primitive doesn’t let me know whether you think it can use up what a ZPM can put out at it’s fastest available pace, through regular tech like shields, etc.
          that's the thing, you're saying it can't. so basically you're saying it's primitive :|
          No
          The tech has it’s limits, if for instance it was a speaker driver, that driver may only be designed to use 40 watts of power (that‘s the number of watts it‘s being fully powered at), the amp may be able to put out 400 watts or more, but the amp could only put 40 watts into the speaker and that’s all the speaker could make use of, if the amp tries to push more power into the speaker then it may blow, SG tech may not blow when it has the full amount of power it was designed to make use of, but it will have reached the level it was designed to work at and will be fully powered, the generator would just have output to spare.
          all the same you're implying the ancients had uber-power generation methods, but that the rest was - at least comparatively - seriously flawed & backward and that they either couldn't fix it, or didn't bother too despite having every reason to do it. that's what you've been suggesting all along & that's the lol part
          Last edited by SoulReaver; 15 July 2009, 11:15 AM.

          Comment


            So you agree that shields wouldn’t be infinite even if they were powered off an infinite energy source and being hit by something with enough of an impact?
            well yeah obviously, if the shields were hit with something that had more than 25X the power (output) of the arcturus device, then it would overload the arcturus-powered shield. hell maybe the firepower of 20X zpms would be enough if allow for the fact that no technology can use power at a 100% efficiency (this would include ancient shielding)
            Well then it doesn’t make sense, unless you take it that Hives and Cruisers are being powered on something that’s less than 1% as potent as a ZPM, possibly across the entirety of the siege fleet in The Siege part 3.
            Obviously regular Wraith pwer generation sucks big time compared to a ZPM.
            ok so on one hand ancients have uber-advanced power-generation but primitive tech in all other fields compared to the wraith, and on the other hand the wraith far far more advanced tech than the ancients in all fields except power generation were they sux big time
            so we have (1) mankind with nuclear power plants but still using sticks & arrows & horse carriages (ancients) versus (2) mankind with radars & laptops & cellphones but still using windmills (wraith)
            that's basically how you explain EATG
            lol
            Who knows?
            It’s possible they were just so over confident (on an enormous Ego trip from their human drug) that they thought their ships were good enough, TBH that’s the only thing that makes sense there.
            I agree, but it could be that they just couldn’t foresee anyone making something that could harm their ships.
            fine but the idea that they didn't make the best they could still implies blatant PIS on their part. not exactly the ideal supervillain is it (come to think of it the only bad guys the writers never dumbed down were the IDA replicators & that's why they're the best IMO)
            Maybe they didn’t have that intel, they just built them as tough as they thought was necessary, otherwise it may have meant they couldn’t have had the imposing numbers of ships they did.
            I know they only came to the MW with 4 in the beginning, but it looked like they had a few dozen and had built them in only a few months.
            The Ori couldn’t think of everything, even being ascended.
            all the same it's a far cry from a fleet. if you think they didn't do their best when building their ships and they lacked enough intel, then more of a reason to send in a proper fleet thru the supergate. otherwise it's like the borg sending only 1 cube to Federation space as part of their invasion plan lol (yeah ST villains have their fair share of PIS too)
            I’d rather just look at the show and take at it’s face value, rather than having to come up with things that aren’t supported.
            problem is the face value you give it would take away all value. I do hope that's not your intent
            I think you already know what I’m gonna say to this.
            yeah and u know what I'm gonna reply to this ^^
            Well then it’s ridiculous, but it’s fact and you can’t argue with the facts (well some may try but they don’t have anything to support their theories so they don’t hold any weight).
            You could always re-write things in your own fan fiction to fit with what you think would be consistent and acceptable.
            well at least u acknowledge that part. there we go
            We haven’t seen the city fire Drones in more than a few at a time from the ground in The Siege part 2, it’s never been stocked up and had to cream a bunch of Hives, I still think it could at least match the outpost on Earth.
            it should yes, but it didn't. even though they had a comfortable supply of drones (can't remember exact title of the ep, it's the one where they find another cityship. the cityship was full of drones (Shep says they can refill their own supply) must have been far more than the outpost too since cityships are a bit bigger)
            Compared to who?
            the other guys (the baddies)
            Does it just have to be a tech thing.
            of cos
            we could discuss politics if u wish but that'd be (even more) offtopic wouldn't it..
            You’re not talking about the old show Rainbow now are you?
            If so that’s not on topic, I’m sure you could find a forum somewhere on the net to talk about that show if you wanted.
            wait u weren't quoting Zipacnah ? (SG1 s3 Pretense)
            Last edited by SoulReaver; 15 July 2009, 11:17 AM.

            Comment


              Originally posted by SoulRe@ver View Post
              both are pieces of tech that ain't part of standard equipment on the ship they're used
              Maybe so, but wormhole drive was actually built by the race that could make both pieces of tech.
              The Ancients made wormhole drive with their technology in mind.
              hey beats saying the ancients couldn't make good wiring
              I never actually said it was bad wiring, I actually said it would be limited compared to what the power source was capable of outputting, that’s entirely different.
              yeah problem is with your version common sense would dictate that the writers lacked any :/
              No it would make no sense if it’d been said that an uber energy source can power a shield past it’s design limit.
              The writers just set that design limit on Atlantis to be weakened by a weapon as strong as the Super Hive could throw (obviously), which isn’t all that unbelievable considering Wraith tech isn’t fixed to a set limit (again obvious), it grows with added power (proven by the Hive in EATG), the components must grow too (evidenced by it getting much faster, hull denser/larger and weapons getting much more powerful).
              We even see in the seed that more and more tendrils created through Keller and the pathogen seek out more power and grow more of them selves, so that would mean many more conduits to carry power, where as Atlantis’s would be fixed to whatever the Ancients had built into it.
              you realize force of impact is not linearly proportionate to distance from the planet right ? twice as far would normally mean 4 times less impact, and so on
              It’s not, well OK, if Odyssey and the other ships had been next to the planet when it blew they’d likely be blown to pieces, they obviously weren’t far enough away for the blast to have had no effect which is evidenced by the Odyssey’s shields dropping from 83 to 50%.
              yeah that's all well & good but the question here is about how powerful are the enemy weapons, and as your vid shows the explosion takes place after the enemy starts attacking
              It happens whilst the attack is going on, so is responsible for a portion of the damage to the shields.
              more speculation ?
              No a fact that we never see the Ori’s weapons actually hit the shield of Odyssey near Orilla, just one beam being fired and then the scene changes to inside the Odyssey‘s bridge, I‘ll admit that‘s likely one hit, but prior to that there was an impact where all we see is a scene inside the 304‘s bridge and it‘s after the dude mentions the 3 Ori Motherships dropping out of hyperspace, so it cannot be said whether that‘s one or more hits.
              haha so all weapons just happened to all hit at the same time ?
              Not necessarily, they could have been fired close together time wise, like very shortly after the first one and it wouldn’t be hard for priors to co-ordinate a simultaneous strike, they are telepathic right?
              1 hit, ship shake, shield down to 83%. rilly nothing hard to understand about that IMO
              Well it’s at least 2 hits before Orilla blows up, you know Ori ships drop out of hyperspace shoot, then the one where we see an Ori ship fire, but not it impacting the shield (scene shifts to the bridge of the 304).
              what was that you were just saying about having to take things @ face value & not filling in holes where there are none...could've sworn you just said it a few lines ago
              Except there are a few holes there, coz we’re witnessing just the shaking from inside of Odyssey and not the Ori’s weapons actually hitting the shields.
              must be the added ring :|
              ok so the planet explosion took out 33% of the shield - so what ? the 1st 17% (that's one 6th as I said b4) was due to beam weapon impact from an enemy ship. and even if you for some reason divide this firepower by 2 or even 3 that's still a helluva lot stronger than in AoT
              Well you’ve got some unknown number of shots fired on Odyssey just after the Ori ships appear, if 17% is then split 2 ways that’s 8.5% so it’d be about 11 hits, if it’s 3 ways then it’s nearly 18 which is less than is countable in AoT (although that‘s just saying each inside ship impact is a single blast from a single ship).
              more like they fixed it till it was as good as new, yeah
              I guess it could have been something that had already existed, it’s possible it was made if parts that were left over after the nukes hit, maybe it was a bunch of back up stuff the Asurans had in storage. A lot of scenarios are possible with that I guess.
              You think the Asurans would have had a vessel saved by the city’s shields to go grab a stargate to put in the satellite?
              Or did they just have s spare or two lying around/
              Maybe they were able to make a new Stargate in only a matter of hours, I guess their nanites may be able to matter convert stuff, from base raw materials.
              Speculation I know, but all likely things.
              or the fact that same shield should've held against a zpm-powered hive if it were powered by 3 zpms (let alone arcturus device)
              Rofl
              But it didn’t and that’s supported by the show.
              they could, but abandoning their only ship/home and starting anew as cavemen on some planet doesn't exactly sound right for a space-faring race does it :/ surviving is important but it has to be worth it
              Well that’s basically what they did in the end and in the end I don’t think technology was what was important to the Ancients, but learning how to ascend and generally become more enlightened.
              and you're the one who's saying the most advanced race in the universe can't make proper wires
              how funny
              No I’m not.
              Proper wires they can do, obviously they only put a set amount of them in their stuff.
              Simple, logical and correct.
              Wraith could grow more wires and adapt their tech, after the war the Ancients weren’t around to adapt theirs to match or beat the Wraith‘s numbers of conduits per ship or size of components, which I think they would have done if they;d been in the Tauri’s position, but they weren’t and obviously didn’t see the Wraith ever having something like the Hive in EATG.
              hey it's better than suggesting the most advanced races in the show are also primitive. wth that's beyond speculation, again just say straight out that you wanna give the show the coup de grace while you're at it lol
              No it’s not and I’m not saying the Ancients were primitive, they certainly weren’t perfect, they were basically human and they‘d built Atlantis to deal with a certain amount of force which had served them perfectly fine against regular Wraith ships, but that Hive wasn’t a regular Hive.
              What’s so advanced about the Wraith probably adding a load more conduits or using up the immense amount those huge things must have to start with and then growing some bigger parts to make the thing even more powerful in the weapons department?
              speaking of imagination
              u make it sound like a planet was flung at the ship or something
              anyway this happens after the ships attack, so kinda offtopic. nice try tho -_-
              I wasn’t using imagination, I said the planet exploding drained the shield, which is more likely given the percentage drop than just saying it’s the Ori’s weapons, or one shot alone, hell hits from all three ships simultaneous wouldn’t match up with that given the prior impacts and using the low end number of 17% divided by two Ori ships.
              BTW it wasn’t off topic as it was important to reinforce the point that not all of the impacts against the 304’s shields were caused by the Ori ships.
              uh no it's 25X the power output, big difference. in terms of actual energy reserves (that's probably what you mean here) that factor would be not 25 but more like several trillion times..
              All that’s mentioned is that at 50% it could generate the power of a dozen ZPMs, no actual time frame for when that figure will be reach is given.
              so what, they're mentioned before. the exotic particles are the cause of the overload
              think about it, if these particles have no incidence whatsoever on the device messing up (and that's what you're saying), why would they mention it ?
              It’s all said in that quote I posted.
              Energy needed venting, it didn’t get vented fast enough and boom, energy overload causes the explosion.
              That’s all that matters to that part of the episode.
              I already said the particles screwed with the system, but saying they ultimately caused the explosion isn’t corroborated by that part of the show.
              you make it sound like Zelenka was saying something like "careful it's gonna overload ! (oh yeah and btw there's these exotic particles thingies. nothing important but they just look so cool & exotic u know, just thought I'd mention it. they also cause hard radiation, nothing important either, but it's cool. plus they're inherently unpredictable so you can't predict them. nothing to do with our prob, but figured you'd find that interesting too. also my boxers are pink. just to let you know)" lol
              What an absolute load of rubbish, I don’t make it sound like they aren’t important, they couldn’t be contained and had breached the field prior to the overload, yet no huge bang happened then, in another episode it’s said they will destroy a universe and put it into absolute chaos or something to that effect.
              They screwed with the system, but Rodney said he’d waited to long to discharge the energy so it was the further build up of energy that caused the explosion in the end.
              that's the thing, you're saying it can't. so basically you're saying it's primitive K
              I’ve dealt with this twice above.
              all the same you're implying the ancients had uber-power generation methods, but that the rest was - at least comparatively - seriously flawed & backward and that they either couldn't fix it, or didn't bother too despite having every reason to do it. that's what you've been suggesting all along & that's the lol part
              Nah I’m not, not backward or any of the junk you’ve stated there.
              See the Wraith’s growth of tech thing I’ve mentioned above and it makes perfect sense.

              Comment


                Originally posted by SoulRe@ver View Post
                well yeah obviously, if the shields were hit with something that had more than 25X the power (output) of the arcturus device, then it would overload the arcturus-powered shield. hell maybe the firepower of 20X zpms would be enough if allow for the fact that no technology can use power at a 100% efficiency (this would include ancient shielding)
                Think about the space the conduits, hell even the space the components alone would have to occupy, even saying 95% efficiency would likely be impossible on something the size of Atlantis and even if it was filled with stuff, without any space for people.
                ok so on one hand ancients have uber-advanced power-generation but primitive tech in all other fields compared to the wraith, and on the other hand the wraith far far more advanced tech than the ancients in all fields except power generation were they sux big time
                I’d see it as the Ancients have more refined stuff overall with less of it, but the Wraith’s stuff being that it grows and is onboard an enormous sized frame can just fill it with more stuff and probably all either conduits or huge components that use up a load of power, both are likely.
                Maybe that’s clearer now.
                so we have (1) mankind with nuclear power plants but still using sticks & arrows & horse carriages (ancients) versus (2) mankind with radars & laptops & cellphones but still using windmills (wraith)
                that's basically how you explain EATG
                Lol
                Nah I’ve said it the way I mean it above a few times.
                fine but the idea that they didn't make the best they could still implies blatant PIS on their part. not exactly the ideal supervillain is it (come to think of it the only bad guys the writers never dumbed down were the IDA replicators & that's why they're the best IMO)
                Well then maybe that was the best they could think of.
                all the same it's a far cry from a fleet. if you think they didn't do their best when building their ships and they lacked enough intel, then more of a reason to send in a proper fleet thru the supergate.
                They were doing pretty well for about 2 years, APBWs weren’t fired at Ori ships after Unending, so we don’t even know if they were still effective.
                otherwise it's like the borg sending only 1 cube to Federation space as part of their invasion plan lol (yeah ST villains have their fair share of PIS too)
                Yeah I always wondered why the Borg didn’t just send 15 Cubes to assimilate Humanity, guess Star Trek TNG would’ve been over and the Borg would have ended the franchise as we know it.
                Can you imagine a Borg series?
                I love the odd story with them in but a whole series would’ve been too much to take IMO unless you got to see the show from each Drones perspective and the race’s getting assimilated.
                problem is the face value you give it would take away all value. I do hope that's not your intent
                The facts is the facts, I’m just shining a light on them here.
                The tech stuff isn’t what’s important to the stories, it’s about the entertainment value, that’s what’s ultimately important and Stargate dishes that out almost every episode for me, except funnily enough EATG (amongst a few others), although I think that’s coz it wasn’t lengthy enough, felt rushed and painted Earth in a rely on Ancient tech way far too much, especially considering they had so many other things they could have used there had they prepared anything more than 304s, 302s and nukes.
                it should yes, but it didn't. even though they had a comfortable supply of drones (can't remember exact title of the ep, it's the one where they find another cityship. the cityship was full of drones (Shep says they can refill their own supply) must have been far more than the outpost too since cityships are a bit bigger)
                It was The Tower in season 2.
                We’ve never seen the outside of the actual outpost so we can’t know how big it is compared to Atlantis, how many Drone launchers or the amount of ammo it carries.
                the other guys (the baddies)
                If the baddies have more powerful weapons than you that doesn’t mean they are more advanced than yours.
                Yours could be more refined, but theirs could use a load more power.
                That wouldn’t be a sign of them being more advanced now would it.
                of cos
                we could discuss politics if u wish but that'd be (even more) offtopic wouldn't it..
                I just said it coz you kept saying the Ancients were primitive and there’s oh so much more to being civilized than what tech you can make, but I’m fine with ending the political talk here.
                wait u weren't quoting Zipacnah ? (SG1 s3 Pretense)
                Nah, didn’t even have that in mind, just saying it coz it’s true.

                Comment


                  (edit> I'l reply next week or so)

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by SoulRe@ver View Post
                    (edit> I'l reply next week or so)
                    Alright mate, I've been busy hence why it took me like two days to get back to ya.
                    I'll probably be busy for the next 2 weeks or so, so I may take a while getting back to you when you do get around to replying.

                    Speak to you later.

                    Comment


                      yeah me too (same reasons & all that)

                      edit> in fact could take even longer !

                      edit²> ok there ain't much to say by now but heck for the fun of it -
                      Originally posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
                      I never actually said it was bad wiring, I actually said it would be limited compared to what the power source was capable of outputting, that’s entirely different.
                      comes to the same. basically you said they're primitive
                      No it would make no sense if it’d been said that an uber energy source can power a shield past it’s design limit.
                      design limit in the sense fusion reactors to power horse carriages ?
                      The writers just set that design limit on Atlantis to be weakened by a weapon as strong as the Super Hive could throw (obviously), which isn’t all that unbelievable considering Wraith tech isn’t fixed to a set limit (again obvious), it grows with added power (proven by the Hive in EATG), the components must grow too
                      if you toss both consistency and the law of conservation of energy out the window then yeah it makes sense
                      It’s not, well OK, if Odyssey and the other ships had been next to the planet when it blew they’d likely be blown to pieces, they obviously weren’t far enough away for the blast to have had no effect which is evidenced by the Odyssey’s shields dropping from 83 to 50%
                      [...]
                      w/e. come to think of it even then Unending wouldn't bother so much as the Oddy in the end was more asgard than terran & was backed by a zpm plus that huge asgard core versus ori ships with only a zpm-lvl source at best so I've no prob with the Oddy being stronger than those ships (within reasonable limits - AoT on the other hand was just plain PIS much in the same vein as EATG)
                      Not necessarily, they could have been fired close together time wise, like very shortly after the first one and it wouldn’t be hard for priors to co-ordinate a simultaneous strike, they are telepathic right?
                      ah yes obviously :|
                      of course they'd have to position their ships so that all 4 are at the exact same distance when they fire simultaneously, so that the beams hit at the same time - either that, or if the distances are different then each ship must calculate the precise time at which it must each fire by taking into account the positions of the other 3 ships so that again all 4 impacts occur at same time. damn they really go at great lengths to keep in sync, more so since viewers won't even see it (being offscreen)...guess they've a taste for the dramatic
                      No a fact that we never see the Ori’s weapons actually hit the shield of Odyssey near Orilla [...]
                      yeah maybe w/e
                      actually even then Unending wouldn't bother me all that much given that the in the end the Oddie was ultimately more asgard than terran & was backed by a zpm plus that huge asgard core versus ori ships equiped with - roughly - the equivalent of a zpm at best, I've no prob with the Oddy being more powerful than an ori ship. especially since it's reasonable to assume that its shields may have been further optimized thanks to Mckay's ascended knowledge (the asgard would've figured it out) which would've given it another bonus even if only a small one, not to mention those beams could've been devised for somewhat greater efficiency against those ori shields
                      AoT on the other hand was just plain idiocy (if the priors were really trying to destroy the Oddy anyway) much in the same vein as EATG
                      I guess it could have been something that had already existed, it’s possible it was made if parts that were left over after the nukes hit, maybe it was a bunch of back up stuff the Asurans had in storage. A lot of scenarios are possible with that I guess.
                      and given what's shown on screen, what's the simplest explanation again ? (just saying, since you were talking about speculation & stuff)
                      You think the Asurans would have had a vessel saved by the city’s shields to go grab a stargate to put in the satellite?
                      not sure what u mean there
                      But it didn’t and that’s supported by the show.
                      yeah and that makes no sense
                      Wraith could grow more wires and adapt their tech, after the war the Ancients weren’t around to adapt theirs to match or beat the Wraith‘s numbers of conduits per ship or size of components, which I think they would have done if they'd been in the Tauri’s position, but they weren’t and obviously didn’t see the Wraith ever having something like the Hive in EATG.
                      ~same thing you're still saying the wraith could "make more wires & better wires than the ancients" that's what your...explanation boils down to lol
                      anyway the wraith spent most of their time sleeping after they defeated the ancients & it's not like they're the "scientific" type anyway (unlike the ancients or the asgard)
                      and of course you're still saying the wraith far far surpassed the ancients in all fields (except power generation where they were far far inferior, go figure why since if they were so good in the rest as you make 'em out to be then they'd also have found a way to at least make their own zpms if not something way better so as to progress in the field of power production along with the rest. but let's pass if off eh)
                      btw the superhive was big but only ~same size as cityship anyway
                      No I’m not.
                      Proper wires they can do, obviously they only put a set amount of them in their stuff.
                      Simple, logical and correct. Simplistic, ludicrous, crazy
                      got the initials right
                      No it’s not and I’m not saying the Ancients were primitive, they certainly weren’t perfect, they were basically human and they‘d built Atlantis to deal with a certain amount of force which had served them perfectly fine against regular Wraith ships, but that Hive wasn’t a regular Hive.
                      What’s so advanced about the Wraith probably adding a load more conduits or using up the immense amount those huge things must have to start with and then growing some bigger parts to make the thing even more powerful in the weapons department?
                      cf. ^, and that doesn't answer the energy problem 1 bit
                      hey guess what, if a bunch of AA batteries can operate a remote control toy car imagine what those same batteries could do in a real lifesize car ! bet they could break the sound barrier !
                      I wasn’t using imagination, I said the planet exploding drained the shield, which is more likely given the percentage drop than just saying it’s the Ori’s weapons, or one shot alone, hell hits from all three ships simultaneous wouldn’t match up with that given the prior impacts and using the low end number of 17% divided by two Ori ships.
                      BTW it wasn’t off topic as it was important to reinforce the point that not all of the impacts against the 304’s shields were caused by the Ori ships.
                      so all in all you're saying the ori were also dumbed down to the point where in the end we had yet...another formerly ultra-advanced bad guy :| RIP SG1 lol
                      All that’s mentioned is that at 50% it could generate the power of a dozen ZPMs, no actual time frame for when that figure will be reach is given.
                      um power is energy per time unit, time frame is irrelevant (unlike for energy)
                      It’s all said in that quote I posted.
                      Energy needed venting, it didn’t get vented fast enough and boom, energy overload causes the explosion.
                      That’s all that matters to that part of the episode.
                      I already said the particles screwed with the system, but saying they ultimately caused the explosion isn’t corroborated by that part of the show.
                      so in other words they mentioned something that had absolutely nothing to do with the problem...?
                      What an absolute load of rubbish, I don’t make it sound like they aren’t important, they couldn’t be contained and had breached the field prior to the overload, yet no huge bang happened then, in another episode it’s said they will destroy a universe and put it into absolute chaos or something to that effect.
                      They screwed with the system, but Rodney said he’d waited to long to discharge the energy so it was the further build up of energy that caused the explosion in the end.
                      BS that was in a later episode don't change the subject k. we're talking about this episode, on one hand you say the particles had nothing to do with the prob, on the other you say they do. make up yur mind will u
                      I’ve dealt with this twice above.
                      only confirms what I said
                      Nah I’m not, not backward or any of the junk you’ve stated there.See the Wraith’s growth of tech thing I’ve mentioned above and it makes perfect sense.
                      hey only replying to the junk I've quoted
                      from the point of view of some1 who's willing to discard the most fundamental laws of physics (which always apply even in sci-fi) yeah I guess it does make sense. what'd that be then, "junk" science ? lol
                      Originally posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
                      Think about the space the conduits, hell even the space the components alone would have to occupy, even saying 95% efficiency would likely be impossible on something the size of Atlantis and even if it was filled with stuff, without any space for people.

                      I’d see it as the Ancients have more refined stuff overall with less of it, but the Wraith’s stuff being that it grows and is onboard an enormous sized frame can just fill it with more stuff and probably all either conduits or huge components that use up a load of power, both are likely.
                      Maybe that’s clearer now.
                      nope, doesn't solve the energy problem (unless the wraith can violate the 1st Principle. then again I'd expect such a race of quasi-gods to have also developed something that dwarfs even arcturus -)
                      Nah I’ve said it the way I mean it above a few times.
                      yeah and the way you've explained it basically implies what you just quoted :|
                      Well then maybe that was the best they could think of.
                      u mean the best they could do ? that's even worse lol
                      They were doing pretty well for about 2 years, APBWs weren’t fired at Ori ships after Unending, so we don’t even know if they were still effective.
                      no but they did send in 4 ships to fight the Odyssey..
                      Yeah I always wondered why the Borg didn’t just send 15 Cubes to assimilate Humanity, guess Star Trek TNG would’ve been over and the Borg would have ended the franchise as we know it.
                      Can you imagine a Borg series?
                      a war with Species 8472 then, they're the only ones who present a real threat
                      The facts is the facts, I’m just shining a light on them here.
                      "facts" ^_^
                      The tech stuff isn’t what’s important to the stories, it’s about the entertainment value, that’s what’s ultimately important and Stargate dishes that out almost every episode for me,
                      plausibility & consistency is also important including for the entertainment value, sci-fi is not an excuse for lack thereof (except in comics to some extent, maybe)
                      It was The Tower in season 2.
                      We’ve never seen the outside of the actual outpost so we can’t know how big it is compared to Atlantis, how many Drone launchers or the amount of ammo it carries.
                      hmm ancient outposts bigger than ancient cities...???
                      If the baddies have more powerful weapons than you that doesn’t mean they are more advanced than yours.
                      Yours could be more refined, but theirs could use a load more power.
                      That wouldn’t be a sign of them being more advanced now would it.
                      it would if you have loads of powers but can't use it (as opposed to them being able to use loads of power & not being able to use it) - which would make each camp far more advanced than the other, in their own way...strike that, which would make for a ****ing stupid scenario :/
                      Last edited by SoulReaver; 19 July 2009, 04:42 PM.

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                        No, the Ori tapped power from Black Holes, the Ori ships never showed they generated anyway near as much power that would suggest an Arcturus reactor, more likely they use some form of Neutrino Ion based reactor, remember those ships are only a single year ahead of the Asgard

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                          Originally posted by Alterus View Post
                          remember those ships are only a single year ahead of the Asgard
                          It's worth noting that the Asgard's beam weapons were only as successful as they were because they were used in conjuncture with ZPM power. The Asgard have neutrino-ion generators and they are not as powerful as ZPMs. Remember, a small number of Goa'uld motherships with Anubis' upgrades were able to take down Thor's shields.

                          The Asgard are adept at producing technological advancements to try to combat new threats. It's how they survived against the replicators for so long. It's also how they made the replicators increasingly stronger and why they needed Earth's low tech help at various points. But while they managed to create a weapon that could do damage against the Ori's shields in a relatively short period of time their power sources lagged behind that of the Ancients and the Ori. As did, in all likelihood, their shield designs.

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