Discussion : Understanding Hollywood Logic?

[GhostPoet]

I'm hoping to understand just how hollywood, directors, etc.. think when it comes to movies. I understand that hollywood passes up plenty of original stories (I've written a few scripts..but apparently they liked a re-make of the Fog better.heh)

We see examples of hollywood's seemingly lack of logic and understanding for the rest of society and what they want to see in a movie.

For instance...Superman 3. Instead of using the countless bad guys from the comics that so many fans wanted to see...the director and writers chose to make their OWN bad guy. eh??

For a more recent example...X-Men 3. Instead of using the biggest fan requested heroes...Gambit being THE most requested...the director is choosing not to use any of those and instead is using small, unknown characters from the series that even the most hardcore X-Men comic fan would have a hard time recognizing.

And then there is Transporter 2..in an interview the director said he knew what they did wrong in the first film and will be fixing all that in the 2nd...and instead he takes out all the best parts of the first film and replaces them with hokey, generic action scenes. um?

So...for anyone here who works in hollywood, knows someone that does OR just has a deep interest in films and/or writing like myself...what is hollywood thinking? Are they thinking? Are directors taking drugs and now all the drug use has fried their brains? Or are they simply so out of touch with the rest of the world that hollywood really IS an alien planet?

What do YOU think? There must be a reason.

[GuyFromOH]

It's simple: The Powers that Be when it comes to the entertainment industry want profits. Nothing else.

I'm sure anyone in this forum can list several TVshows that shouldn't have been cancelled, Books that should be made into movies, certainly some movies that never should have been made, etc.

The fact that you are in these forums at all makes you, along with the rest of us here, the minority when it comes to media consumerism. Most people don't put much thought into or have a strong connection with what they are watching. Most people will go to a movie, have some laughs or see cool things, and leave. The movie producers get their money, so they are happy.

There are plenty of writers and directors that want to make movies and TV that is original, thought-provoking, and just better than what's out there, yourself included apparently, but if those ideas can't get sold, then they can't get made.

Joss Whedon was able to make Firefly because of his massive success with Buffy, and after the show was cancelled, there were thousands of fans from all walks of life all around the world trying to get the show back on the air, with letter-writing campaigns, full-page newspaper ads, etc. It was only when The Powers That Be saw there was still money to be made that they decided to give the green light to the movie, which is coming out within a two weeks.

[StevetheWraith!]

It's simple: The Powers that Be when it comes to the entertainment industry want profits. Nothing else.

I'm sure anyone in this forum can list several TVshows that shouldn't have been cancelled, Books that should be made into movies, certainly some movies that never should have been made, etc.
...
Joss Whedon was able to make Firefly because of his massive success with Buffy, and after the show was cancelled...It was only when The Powers That Be saw there was still money to be made that they decided to give the green light to the movie, which is coming out within a two weeks.

I definitely second that, GuyFromOH. In fact I definitely couldn't have said it better myself. Its such a shame that some idiot in a suite makes these rash decisions without really giving a damn about the legions of fans that really stuck by these shows that are actually really good stuff. Tons of shows suffered the same fate as Firefly including Angel and Dark Angel that were ended sooner that was initially anticipated simply because the $$$ weren't rolling in anymore.

[MarshAngel]

So...for anyone here who works in hollywood, knows someone that does OR just has a deep interest in films and/or writing like myself...what is hollywood thinking? Are they thinking? Are directors taking drugs and now all the drug use has fried their brains? Or are they simply so out of touch with the rest of the world that hollywood really IS an alien planet?

What do YOU think? There must be a reason.

Hollywood Logic is a bit of an oxymoron.

My take on what has happened is that rather than let creativity and imagination guide them, their approach is strictly business with little to no quality control.
If they can make the money without spending time, money, and the effort it takes to find good writers and directors and people who actually think, they go with the money. Hence the sci-fi originals, movies like Jason X, and the endless array of sequels.

Unfortunately run away capitalism is everywhere. Only the bottomline matters.

[FeloniousMonk]

simply because the $$$ weren't rolling in anymore.

I'm sorry but maybe y'all don't realize that television shows cost money.

I was also upset that Firefly got canned just as I was upset when The Pretender, The Sentinel, Freedom, and Brimstone were taken off the air (well...as upset as any rational person can get over losing a tv show). Despite my enjoyment of those shows I can't ignore the fact that if they don't bring in advertising dollars, they can't afford to run. Yes, Firefly was a good show that was ruined by the execs at Fox. But to blame any network for cancelling an unprofitable show is a bit mean.

A show like Firefly failed because of bad management on the network's part. Most shows fail because they lack viewership. If I have a show that costs half a million per episode but only brings in two million viewers and you have a show that costs three times as much as mine but manages to pull in five times the viewership, my show doesn't stand a chance. You can't expect a network to run unprofitable programs, especially if they can actually lose money on it.

Hollywood logic? Hollywood is a business and like any other business the most important thing is always going to be money. Joss Whedon is an artist but without that money we can't enjoy his art.

Unfortunately run away capitalism is everywhere. Only the bottomline matters.

The only people to blame when capitalism doesn't go your way is the consumer. The audience is buying it because the audience wants it. Even when presented with the shows you and I appreciate, majority rules and the majority of people would rather watch "reality" shows. If you want a network that doesn't care about profits, watch PBS.

[Stricken]

Theres logic in Hollywood??

[GhostPoet]

It's simple: The Powers that Be when it comes to the entertainment industry want profits. Nothing else.

I'm sure anyone in this forum can list several TVshows that shouldn't have been cancelled, Books that should be made into movies, certainly some movies that never should have been made, etc.

The fact that you are in these forums at all makes you, along with the rest of us here, the minority when it comes to media consumerism. Most people don't put much thought into or have a strong connection with what they are watching. Most people will go to a movie, have some laughs or see cool things, and leave. The movie producers get their money, so they are happy.

There are plenty of writers and directors that want to make movies and TV that is original, thought-provoking, and just better than what's out there, yourself included apparently, but if those ideas can't get sold, then they can't get made.

Joss Whedon was able to make Firefly because of his massive success with Buffy, and after the show was cancelled, there were thousands of fans from all walks of life all around the world trying to get the show back on the air, with letter-writing campaigns, full-page newspaper ads, etc. It was only when The Powers That Be saw there was still money to be made that they decided to give the green light to the movie, which is coming out within a two weeks.

So, basically..their own greed is killing their industry.

Here's what I don't get..they want money..ok, I can understand that..it's an industry...money comes first for the suits. But they are NOT making money..hollywood has been in a continual slump for the past year...they are losing money on every film made right now.

And any 4th grader could tell you why...but these guys still can't figure out why they are losing money? I know greed can blind...but these guys would have to be complete and utter IDIOTS to not figure out why they are losing out on each movie. (some of them they have at least broke even..but most of the recent "blockbusters" they've lost A LOT) That's the thing that puzzles me the most...they are losing money and they don't know why...meanwhile "hey! Let's make another re-make!" "Hey! Let's make another generic action flick!"

[GhostPoet]

I'm sorry but maybe y'all don't realize that television shows cost money.

I was also upset that Firefly got canned just as I was upset when The Pretender, The Sentinel, Freedom, and Brimstone were taken off the air (well...as upset as any rational person can get over losing a tv show). Despite my enjoyment of those shows I can't ignore the fact that if they don't bring in advertising dollars, they can't afford to run. Yes, Firefly was a good show that was ruined by the execs at Fox. But to blame any network for cancelling an unprofitable show is a bit mean.

A show like Firefly failed because of bad management on the network's part. Most shows fail because they lack viewership. If I have a show that costs half a million per episode but only brings in two million viewers and you have a show that costs three times as much as mine but manages to pull in five times the viewership, my show doesn't stand a chance. You can't expect a network to run unprofitable programs, especially if they can actually lose money on it.

Hollywood logic? Hollywood is a business and like any other business the most important thing is always going to be money. Joss Whedon is an artist but without that money we can't enjoy his art.

The only people to blame when capitalism doesn't go your way is the consumer. The audience is buying it because the audience wants it. Even when presented with the shows you and I appreciate, majority rules and the majority of people would rather watch "reality" shows. If you want a network that doesn't care about profits, watch PBS.

See my response to the other guy. Hollywood is losing money this year...profits have dropped quite a bit with each movie they release...and they still don't know why.heh

[GhostPoet]

Also..here's another thing. Ok. Hollywood wants money..I can understand that. I'm a realist..I know things like CGI cost A LOT and what not...

But here is another thing that confuses me...they take movies that could have major franchises and give them more money than a handful of low-quality films...and they choose the low quality films JUST to break even?

Mr. Andersen and Mr. Boll (probably mispelled their names)
Both are known for some of the worst films in cinema history..and studio heads continue to hire them on for films...now keep in mind these are guys that ruined some of the BIGGEST money making major franchises out there...none of their movies have did more than break even...hollywood doesn't make any money off these guys films..they just get back what they spent..and yet they are still hired to direct. Why?

It's things like these...that I don't think I'll ever figure out...I think we are going to see more and more hack jobs in the industry and less of the people who really have a passion for movies...

[Anubis69]

Hollywood exec: "Spiderman, Superman, Fantastic 4, Dukes of Hazzard, LotR, War of the Worlds, Pride and Prejedice. What does that say?"
Me (And most people out there.): "There's too many remakes..."
Hollywood Exec: "No, people like them. Lets make more of them!!"

and only a handful are good let alone above average. if they're out to make money, find something unique. not finding a new (or rejuvinated genre) and ruining it again. Look what scream did for horror, spawned countless carbon copies. Spiderman spawned countless superhero films. American pie spawned thousand of teen movies and hence spoof teen movies (and all of them terrible!!!!).

And sci-fi, it's next you know? Its becoming more popular every day. They've ruined Trek, and if we're not careful SG's next.

[FeloniousMonk]

So, basically..their own greed is killing their industry.

Here's what I don't get..they want money..ok, I can understand that..it's an industry...money comes first for the suits. But they are NOT making money..hollywood has been in a continual slump for the past year...they are losing money on every film made right now.

And any 4th grader could tell you why...but these guys still can't figure out why they are losing money? I know greed can blind...but these guys would have to be complete and utter IDIOTS to not figure out why they are losing out on each movie. (some of them they have at least broke even..but most of the recent "blockbusters" they've lost A LOT) That's the thing that puzzles me the most...they are losing money and they don't know why...meanwhile "hey! Let's make another re-make!" "Hey! Let's make another generic action flick!"

Can you provide any actual numbers to back up the claim that Hollywood has been losing money on all the films that have come out? Did Charlie and the Chocolate Factory flop? What about The Fantastic Four?

I'm sure you and the fourth graders know the market better than the guys paid six figures a year to analyze it, right?

See my response to the other guy. Hollywood is losing money this year...profits have dropped quite a bit with each movie they release...and they still don't know why.heh

Show me. Also, do you realize that "Hollywood" isn't a company? There are a myriad of production studios that make movies. Even if a few of those companies have made bad decisions it doesn't indicate that the entertainment industry as a whole is losing money.


Oh, and have we forgotten about the rampant piracy that causes massive losses in the industry? I saw Batman, Sin City, and The Skeleton Key without forking over a dime.

[MarshAngel]

I'm sorry but maybe y'all don't realize that television shows cost money.

No, we're all stupid. Here I was thinking it was for free. I'm so much better informed now.

The only people to blame when capitalism doesn't go your way is the consumer. The audience is buying it because the audience wants it. Even when presented with the shows you and I appreciate, majority rules and the majority of people would rather watch "reality" shows. If you want a network that doesn't care about profits, watch PBS.

The key here is when they have to cancel a show, or send an expensive movie to video after it bombs, they lose money too. We're not all so tasteless that when they present cheap crap to us we automatically go for it because we don't know better. It's simple really: Spend more time and effort on making something worth watching and we the audience will spend our time and money paying you for it.

[GhostPoet]

Hollywood exec: "Spiderman, Superman, Fantastic 4, Dukes of Hazzard, LotR, War of the Worlds, Pride and Prejedice. What does that say?"
Me (And most people out there.): "There's too many remakes..."
Hollywood Exec: "No, people like them. Lets make more of them!!"

and only a handful are good let alone above average. if they're out to make money, find something unique. not finding a new (or rejuvinated genre) and ruining it again. Look what scream did for horror, spawned countless carbon copies. Spiderman spawned countless superhero films. American pie spawned thousand of teen movies and hence spoof teen movies (and all of them terrible!!!!).

And sci-fi, it's next you know? Its becoming more popular every day. They've ruined Trek, and if we're not careful SG's next.

In defense of comic book movies...there have been some really good ones. Spiderman 1 and 2 were excellant films. Batman Begins was AWESOME. Hellboy was very entertaining (a favorite of mine) Fantastic Four wasn't all that bad. Could have been better. But they really captured the comic.
And I enjoyed War of the Worlds..I thought it was a solid movie..great characters. Was it a simple story? Yes. But it was a solid story nonetheless...this could be because I'm into retro-sci-fi and would kill to be the one to write a re-make for "The Day The Earth Stood Still" However..I agree that most remakes SUCK.


(I like your image in your signature. I agree)


It seems Hollywood is content to make A LITTLE money on lame films then to make great films that have franchises...(which is obvious by the fact they made Aliens VS predator..destroying two franchises with one film just to get some quick cash instead of making an incredible film that could spawn more films and more money.

[GhostPoet]

Can you provide any actual numbers to back up the claim that Hollywood has been losing money on all the films that have come out? Did Charlie and the Chocolate Factory flop? What about The Fantastic Four?

I'm sure you and the fourth graders know the market better than the guys paid six figures a year to analyze it, right?




Show me. Also, do you realize that "Hollywood" isn't a company? There are a myriad of production studios that make movies. Even if a few of those companies have made bad decisions it doesn't indicate that the entertainment industry as a whole is losing money.


Oh, and have we forgotten about the rampant piracy that causes massive losses in the industry? I saw Batman, Sin City, and The Skeleton Key without forking over a dime.

How could you not know? Hollywood has been complaining about a major slump all this year ono just about every kind of media you could think of. Go to google and do a search for Hollywood slump..i'm sure that'll bring a ton of stuff up. This is one of the lowest times for Hollywood in recent years. (Their response is that people are just not interested in going to movies anymore. Because surely it CAN'T be the movies themselves.

Also http://www.boxofficemojo.com/

[FeloniousMonk]

No, we're all stupid. Here I was thinking it was for free. I'm so much better informed now.




The key here is when they have to cancel a show, or send an expensive movie to video after it bombs, they lose money too. We're not all so tasteless that when they present cheap crap to us we automatically go for it because we don't know better. It's simple really: Spend more time and effort on making something worth watching and we the audience will spend our time and money paying you for it.

Making something worth watching? Ok, could you write a story that even half the people in the country would be willing to read? What's "worth watching" for you may be utter crap for someone else. Neither of my roommates can stand Stargate, they think it's a bunch of cheesy scifi crap with terrible dialogue, retarded storylines, and ridiculous characters.

It's not "worth watching" for them, does that make it a horrible show? I can't stand any reality shows but it's "worth watching" to a large enough chunk of the population that it makes them money.