Deep Space 9 Superior

[rarocks24]

Don't you just love when they do race revisions.

[Rac80]

We only got a very small glimpse of what life was on Terok Nor throughout the entire series. I do remember Quark talking about the differences between Sisko/Federation and DuKat/Cardassia running the station. - And how he had more freedom under Cardassian rule to exploit and continue with illegal activities as long as DuKat got his cut. Odo didn't have the freedom to scrutinize Quarks activities that he had with Sisko at the helm.

I loved the season 6 episode The Sound of Her Voice where Kira and Odo were on a one month anniversary date that Quark talked Odo into setting up so he could do an illegal trade. Well we find out that Odo is fully aware this and when Kira calls him on it, he admits some affection for Quark and also the fact that he has let Quark get away with some illegal stuff in the past while picking his battles carefully. Then at the end, Quark finds out that Odo hasn't been as in the dark about past activities as he believed. To which he finds a whole new respect for Odo.

I always found the backstory of Cardassian rule to be fascinating. Today I watched "Neccessary Evil" from season 2 and I enjoyed seeing the backstory of Odo becoming an investigator, his first meeting with Kira, and their experiences on Terok Nor when Gul Dukat was in charge. It was a murder mystery storyline where Odo tries to solve his first case from 5 years previously. it begins with Quark being attacked for a list of eight Bajoran names. It turns out these were names of Bajorans who collaborated with the Cardassians. This list was put together by a Bajoran before he was murdered. Odo tried to solve the man's murder 5 years previously but didn't. This time around both the attack on quark and the man's murder is solved. The attack on quark was to get the list for blackmail purposes (the widow of the first victim wanted to retrieve the list), the first murder was committed to cover up an attempt to steal the list. What is interesting is that Kira had convinced Odo five years previously that she hadn't committed the crime, now she confesses to him that she did. It was an episode told in flashbacks from Odo's point of view. It gave us good insight into Odo's relations with both the cardassians and the Bajorans. I thought it was one of the best episodes, very character driven.

[the Fifth Race]

I always found the backstory of Cardassian rule to be fascinating. Today I watched "Neccessary Evil" from season 2 and I enjoyed seeing the backstory of Odo becoming an investigator, his first meeting with Kira, and their experiences on Terok Nor when Gul Dukat was in charge. It was a murder mystery storyline where Odo tries to solve his first case from 5 years previously. it begins with Quark being attacked for a list of eight Bajoran names. It turns out these were names of Bajorans who collaborated with the Cardassians. This list was put together by a Bajoran before he was murdered. Odo tried to solve the man's murder 5 years previously but didn't. This time around both the attack on quark and the man's murder is solved. The attack on quark was to get the list for blackmail purposes (the widow of the first victim wanted to retrieve the list), the first murder was committed to cover up an attempt to steal the list. What is interesting is that Kira had convinced Odo five years previously that she hadn't committed the crime, now she confesses to him that she did. It was an episode told in flashbacks from Odo's point of view. It gave us good insight into Odo's relations with both the cardassians and the Bajorans. I thought it was one of the best episodes, very character driven.

I see you are following the series on the Spike network, I also watched Necessary Evil yesterday on Spike. One real strength to "Necessary Evil" is its remarkably compelling flashback sequences, which are woven into the story flawlessly - A real testament to James Conway's directing. The lighting and photography is nothing short of brilliant, creating a true Trek noir, but like you mentioned Lady Rac the characterizations and story events are just as powerfully drawn. Odo's investigating techniques highlight his intelligence, patience, and thoroughness extremely well, and his pointed commentary about justice in both the dialog and the running security log voice-overs highlights many keen observations. The flashbacks plausibly and interestingly document the way Odo met Kira, Dukat, and Quark all within the same investigation. The story's use of the murdered man's widow, Pallra, is also nicely realized. Kira's role in the investigation is especially intriguing, the revelation that she was actually the killer - on assignment by the Bajoran underground, is gutsy and probing, weakening a bond of trust shared between her and Odo. With a plot that is beautifully crafted, its powerful and thoughtful dialog, and a multitude of riveting character implications, "Necessary Evil" is one of the series' all-time best installments.

[Rac80]

I see you are following the series on the Spike network, I also watched Necessary Evil yesterday on Spike. One real strength to "Necessary Evil" is its remarkably compelling flashback sequences, which are woven into the story flawlessly - A real testament to James Conway's directing. The lighting and photography is nothing short of brilliant, creating a true Trek noir, but like you mentioned Lady Rac the characterizations and story events are just as powerfully drawn. Odo's investigating techniques highlight his intelligence, patience, and thoroughness extremely well, and his pointed commentary about justice in both the dialog and the running security log voice-overs highlights many keen observations. The flashbacks plausibly and interestingly document the way Odo met Kira, Dukat, and Quark all within the same investigation. The story's use of the murdered man's widow, Pallra, is also nicely realized. Kira's role in the investigation is especially intriguing, the revelation that she was actually the killer - on assignment by the Bajoran underground, is gutsy and probing, weakening a bond of trust shared between her and Odo. With a plot that is beautifully crafted, its powerful and thoughtful dialog, and a multitude of riveting character implications, "Necessary Evil" is one of the series' all-time best installments.

yep, due to my holey pockets I am reduced to watching DS9 whenever it is on (and I am free) and right now Spike is where it is. Yes I loved that episode. It was extremely well done (like the rest of the series) and the characters were so nuanced it was pleasure to see the tale unfold. I loved the "trek noir" (I like that phrase!) feel to it. It easily achieved the dark, suspenseful feel of a 1940's murder mystery movie that TNG tried (and failed miserably) with the "dixon hill" stories. TNG just fell short in many ways. The DS9 production crew had a wonderful grasp of the elements that made DS9 so good; the directing, lighting, etc... was all far above what is usually found in scifi.
I think you had a good point, fifth race, about the importance of odo's voice overs giving us a deeper insight into him and his moral code. I will take the opposite point though on the result of Kira confessing to the first murder. While I don't think it weakened the bond of trust between her and Odo, I do think it made him re-evaluate her and how "easy to read" he had thought she was. It never hurts for a woman to keep a man guessing! It also showed to Odo how deep her commitment to Bajor's freedom was and still is.

[the Fifth Race]

yep, due to my holey pockets I am reduced to watching DS9 whenever it is on (and I am free) and right now Spike is where it is. Yes I loved that episode. It was extremely well done (like the rest of the series) and the characters were so nuanced it was pleasure to see the tale unfold. I loved the "trek noir" (I like that phrase!) feel to it. It easily achieved the dark, suspenseful feel of a 1940's murder mystery movie that TNG tried (and failed miserably) with the "dixon hill" stories. TNG just fell short in many ways. The DS9 production crew had a wonderful grasp of the elements that made DS9 so good; the directing, lighting, etc... was all far above what is usually found in scifi.

LOLOL - It's funny you mention that, I spent a good 5 minutes trying to think up just the right word to describe this episode. With the dark and grainy look the filming had coupled with the wonderful suspense going on, it reminded me of one of those old detective movies or show (like yourself) where it was always evening or rainy and the lead character always had this wonderful running commentary throughout the entire show. Trek Noir just seemed to fit perfectly, I guess we could take it one further and call the station Terok Noir. DS9 had a knack for being creative with not only there unique storylines, but with there set design, there rich characters ..etc..etc.. it always seemed edgy and dark yet pleasingly familiar.

I will take the opposite point though on the result of Kira confessing to the first murder. While I don't think it weakened the bond of trust between her and Odo, I do think it made him re-evaluate her and how "easy to read" he had thought she was. It never hurts for a woman to keep a man guessing! It also showed to Odo how deep her commitment to Bajor's freedom was and still is.

I think in the short-run it made Odo look at Kira differently, but in the long run it also opened him up to a personal side of Kira that made him feel closer to her. Great post as usual Lady Rac.

[Rac80]

LOLOL - It's funny you mention that, I spent a good 5 minutes trying to think up just the right word to describe this episode. With the dark and grainy look the filming had coupled with the wonderful suspense going on, it reminded me of one of those old detective movies or show (like yourself) where it was always evening or rainy and the lead character always had this wonderful running commentary throughout the entire show. Trek Noir just seemed to fit perfectly, I guess we could take it one further and call the station Terok Noir. DS9 had a knack for being creative with not only there unique storylines, but with there set design, there rich characters ..etc..etc.. it always seemed edgy and dark yet pleasingly familiar.

I like the Terok noir I felt all that episode was missing was Bogey and Bacall (know how to whistle steve? you just put your lips together and blow ) and a light rain. (this gal is an old movie fan!)They really achieved a "classic movie" feel with that episode.... TNG never could do it!

I think in the short-run it made Odo look at Kira differently, but in the long run it also opened him up to a personal side of Kira that made him feel closer to her. Great post as usual Lady Rac.

Yeah I will agree with you there. Your commentary, as always, is thought-provoking!

[USS Defiant]

Great analysis as always! .

Why thank you, I learned from brother Fifth Race during our first round of episode discussions awhile back. It's kind of embarrasing to admit, but when I watch an episode for the discussion I have a note-pad in hand.

[USS Defiant]

DS9 season 1: episode #16
The Forsaken
"The Forsaken," much like "The Storyteller" and "The Passenger," highlights how DS9 can deliver with character insight and development almost every time, even when the plotline fails to be remotely compelling.

In this case, a computerized "entity" invades the computer system and causes problems throughout the station. Included in these problems is Odo and Lwaxana Troi being stuck in a turbolift--an unlikely character combination that provides a surprising amount of well-realized characterization.

Lwaxana's lusting after the understandably frightened Odo is initially annoying, but it slowly mellows into something rather sweet. We get more of Odo's mysterious backstory, and it shows the constable in a moment of weakened personal pride. Lwaxana's reaction to the situation is nicely handled, - I enjoyed her much more in this episode than anything she did on TNG. Also entertaining is the always-reliable Meaney as an O'Brien frustrated with a hopeless computer system, as well the notion of Sisko passing off the duty of entertaining visiting ambassadors to an unfortunate Doctor Bashir. What doesn't work here is the completely routine computer-induced mania and its predictable wrap-up, and the unnecessary imperilment of Bashir and the ambassadors in the lackluster finale. The characters work, but the story lacks originality.

[Trek_Girl42]

DS9 season 1: episode #16
The Forsaken
"The Forsaken," much like "The Storyteller" and "The Passenger," highlights how DS9 can deliver with character insight and development almost every time, even when the plotline fails to be remotely compelling.

In this case, a computerized "entity" invades the computer system and causes problems throughout the station. Included in these problems is Odo and Lwaxana Troi being stuck in a turbolift--an unlikely character combination that provides a surprising amount of well-realized characterization.

Lwaxana's lusting after the understandably frightened Odo is initially annoying, but it slowly mellows into something rather sweet. We get more of Odo's mysterious backstory, and it shows the constable in a moment of weakened personal pride. Lwaxana's reaction to the situation is nicely handled, - I enjoyed her much more in this episode than anything she did on TNG. Also entertaining is the always-reliable Meaney as an O'Brien frustrated with a hopeless computer system, as well the notion of Sisko passing off the duty of entertaining visiting ambassadors to an unfortunate Doctor Bashir. What doesn't work here is the completely routine computer-induced mania and its predictable wrap-up, and the unnecessary imperilment of Bashir and the ambassadors in the lackluster finale. The characters work, but the story lacks originality.

Ugh.....this is one of those episodes that I at once didn't like, and liked at the same time (yes, weird). Lwixana.....the only time she was entertaining on TNG was when she was directly in conflict with Picard. And that was usually because of Picard's reactions. And I was so ready to hate her when she showed up on DS9. I didn't like her romantic persual of Odo, but there was some nice stuff in those turbolift scenes that made me forgive that. The computer glitch was predictable- but I did like that Bashir ended up in charge of the ambassadors, provided for some amusing moments, if I recall correctly. I'd say this episode only worked on the level that it made me laugh a few times, and some of the Odo stuff was nice, but otherwise it was pretty bland, but not abysmal.

[the Fifth Race]

Ugh.....this is one of those episodes that I at once didn't like, and liked at the same time (yes, weird). Lwixana.....the only time she was entertaining on TNG was when she was directly in conflict with Picard. And that was usually because of Picard's reactions. And I was so ready to hate her when she showed up on DS9. I didn't like her romantic persual of Odo, but there was some nice stuff in those turbolift scenes that made me forgive that. The computer glitch was predictable- but I did like that Bashir ended up in charge of the ambassadors, provided for some amusing moments, if I recall correctly. I'd say this episode only worked on the level that it made me laugh a few times, and some of the Odo stuff was nice, but otherwise it was pretty bland, but not abysmal.

You nailed it on the head Lady Trek. I re-watched this episode last night and although I was bored for the greater part of this episode, I really adored the final scenes with Lwaxana and Odo. She looked terrible in this episode and she wasn't afraid to show it; this is a woman who's not afraid of her age, her unconventional appearance, the fact that she intimidates people. Her girlish flirting with Odo was as embarrassing to watch as it seemed to be for him to accept at first, but by the final scene where he literally melts in her lap - what an unusual emotional and erotic image. The metaphor worked very nicely. Majel Barrett got the chance to show she has some very good acting chops, unlike her campy parts on TNG. Unfortunately the B plot involving the computer was completely uninteresting (other than some very funny moments involving Bashir) serving little purpose but to disable the lift in which Odo and Lwaxana were traveling. They both deserve better storylines in which to explore their surprising bond.

Good to see you back on the superior thread Lady Trek. I am so sorry about your Canuck's, I watched the game on Tivo this morning and you guys put up a valiant fight but those damn Duck's are tough. I am still licking my wounds from the Shark's debacle of giving up the tying goal to the Red Wing's with 31 seconds left in the game - then going on to give up the winning goal in over-time with 40 seconds left in the first over-time period. We would have been up 3 - 1 but now were tied 2 -2.

[Trek_Girl42]

You nailed it on the head Lady Trek. I re-watched this episode last night and although I was bored for the greater part of this episode, I really adored the final scenes with Lwaxana and Odo. She looked terrible in this episode and she wasn't afraid to show it; this is a woman who's not afraid of her age, her unconventional appearance, the fact that she intimidates people. Her girlish flirting with Odo was as embarrassing to watch as it seemed to be for him to accept at first, but by the final scene where he literally melts in her lap - what an unusual emotional and erotic image. The metaphor worked very nicely. Majel Barrett got the chance to show she has some very good acting chops, unlike her campy parts on TNG. Unfortunately the B plot involving the computer was completely uninteresting (other than some very funny moments involving Bashir) serving little purpose but to disable the lift in which Odo and Lwaxana were traveling. They both deserve better storylines in which to explore their surprising bond.

Good to see you back on the superior thread Lady Trek. I am so sorry about your Canuck's, I watched the game on Tivo this morning and you guys put up a valiant fight but those damn Duck's are tough. I am still licking my wounds from the Shark's debacle of giving up the tying goal to the Red Wing's with 31 seconds left in the game - then going on to give up the winning goal in over-time with 40 seconds left in the first over-time period. We would have been up 3 - 1 but now were tied 2 -2.

A couple days of emotional hockey wounds then. Ugh.....we played abysmally through the first two periods last night, Luongo was simpley amazing for us to keep it alive for a much better third and overtime. Between the last two games we sure squandered our chances this year, the Ducks certainly deserved their win.


Now go squash em in the next round.

[Starbase]

Lwixana.....the only time she was entertaining on TNG was when she was directly in conflict with Picard. And that was usually because of Picard's reactions. And I was so ready to hate her when she showed up on DS9. I didn't like her romantic persual of Odo, but there was some nice stuff in those turbolift scenes that made me forgive

Well said Trek_Girl. I could never stand Majel Barrett and especially the character of Lwaxana. But when I saw The Forsaken for the first time when it originally aired all that changed. You said it well brother Fifth, she did show some "great acting chops". Those scenes in the turbo-lift were so beautifully written and acted, Rene Auberjonos was fantastic as well. As far as the rest of the episode goes, it was rather forgettable.

A couple days of emotional hockey wounds then. Ugh.....we played abysmally through the first two periods last night, Luongo was simpley amazing for us to keep it alive for a much better third and overtime. Between the last two games we sure squandered our chances this year, the Ducks certainly deserved their win.


Now go squash em in the next round.

I'm sorry Trek_Girl, I was rooting for the Canuck's big time (I hate anything from LA). Luongo was amazing in goal last night, to bad your offense didn't give him any help early on.

Hopefully if we can get our sh*t together tomorrow we can take care of Detroit. The Red Wing's have not been the better team, but they have been the hungier team, which can men all the difference, especially in the playoff's.

[Rac80]

Why thank you, I learned from brother Fifth Race during our first round of episode discussions awhile back. It's kind of embarrasing to admit, but when I watch an episode for the discussion I have a note-pad in hand.

Ok, To keep up with all of you, I guess I have to get more "serious" about my Trek watching too. Here goes nothing....

DS9 season 1: episode #16
The Forsaken
"The Forsaken," much like "The Storyteller" and "The Passenger," highlights how DS9 can deliver with character insight and development almost every time, even when the plotline fails to be remotely compelling.

In this case, a computerized "entity" invades the computer system and causes problems throughout the station. Included in these problems is Odo and Lwaxana Troi being stuck in a turbolift--an unlikely character combination that provides a surprising amount of well-realized characterization.

Lwaxana's lusting after the understandably frightened Odo is initially annoying, but it slowly mellows into something rather sweet. We get more of Odo's mysterious backstory, and it shows the constable in a moment of weakened personal pride. Lwaxana's reaction to the situation is nicely handled, - I enjoyed her much more in this episode than anything she did on TNG. Also entertaining is the always-reliable Meaney as an O'Brien frustrated with a hopeless computer system, as well the notion of Sisko passing off the duty of entertaining visiting ambassadors to an unfortunate Doctor Bashir. What doesn't work here is the completely routine computer-induced mania and its predictable wrap-up, and the unnecessary imperilment of Bashir and the ambassadors in the lackluster finale. The characters work, but the story lacks originality.

Ugh.....this is one of those episodes that I at once didn't like, and liked at the same time (yes, weird). Lwixana.....the only time she was entertaining on TNG was when she was directly in conflict with Picard. And that was usually because of Picard's reactions. And I was so ready to hate her when she showed up on DS9. I didn't like her romantic persual of Odo, but there was some nice stuff in those turbolift scenes that made me forgive that. The computer glitch was predictable- but I did like that Bashir ended up in charge of the ambassadors, provided for some amusing moments, if I recall correctly. I'd say this episode only worked on the level that it made me laugh a few times, and some of the Odo stuff was nice, but otherwise it was pretty bland, but not abysmal.

She looked terrible in this episode and she wasn't afraid to show it; this is a woman who's not afraid of her age, her unconventional appearance, the fact that she intimidates people. Her girlish flirting with Odo was as embarrassing to watch as it seemed to be for him to accept at first, but by the final scene where he literally melts in her lap - what an unusual emotional and erotic image. The metaphor worked very nicely. Majel Barrett got the chance to show she has some very good acting chops, unlike her campy parts on TNG. Unfortunately the B plot involving the computer was completely uninteresting (other than some very funny moments involving Bashir) serving little purpose but to disable the lift in which Odo and Lwaxana were traveling. They both deserve better storylines in which to explore their surprising bond.

Well said Trek_Girl. I could never stand Majel Barrett and especially the character of Lwaxana. But when I saw The Forsaken for the first time when it originally aired all that changed. You said it well brother Fifth, she did show some "great acting chops". Those scenes in the turbo-lift were so beautifully written and acted, Rene Auberjonos was fantastic as well. As far as the rest of the episode goes, it was rather forgettable.

Great comments one and all! I was pleasantly surprised by Majel Barrett's acting ability in this episode. I had only ever seen her in Trek and didn 't think any of the roles she did (from "number one" to nurse chapel to lwaxana to the computer voice) required any great ability. In this episode you saw her as a vunerable older woman coming to terms with the loss of her youth and desirability (gulp! ). She played it with just the right amount of resignation and pathos. I was pleased it did not deteriorate into a "pity poor me" scene, but ended with dignity and acceptance. When the lift doors open and you see her holding a melted Odo in her skirt you feel that both Lwaxana and Odo had come to terms with their various weaknesses.
I will be back in a week

[Starbase]

Ok, To keep up with all of you, I guess I have to get more "serious" about my Trek watching too. Here goes nothing....

Great comments one and all! I was pleasantly surprised by Majel Barrett's acting ability in this episode. I had only ever seen her in Trek and didn 't think any of the roles she did (from "number one" to nurse chapel to lwaxana to the computer voice) required any great ability. In this episode you saw her as a vunerable older woman coming to terms with the loss of her youth and desirability (gulp! ). She played it with just the right amount of resignation and pathos. I was pleased it did not deteriorate into a "pity poor me" scene, but ended with dignity and acceptance. When the lift doors open and you see her holding a melted Odo in her skirt you feel that both Lwaxana and Odo had come to terms with their various weaknesses.
I will be back in a week

LOL, very well done. I think my very good friend David (Fifth Race) should pay you, USS Defiant, Trek_Girl and myself of course, big time salaries for our expert opinion and fine detailed analysis.

In all seriousness, DS9 is such great subject matter to discuss and follow. I have said it before and it still echoes clear today. - The more I re-watch and discuss these episodes in detail with fellow Trek/scifi fans, the more I enjoy the series. Plus having nice intelligent people to discuss it with, makes it all the better!. Without a doubt, DS9 brings out the smartest and best scifi fans I have ever been around.

Now back to Lwaxana: Like you mentioned Lady Rac, I was so glad that the elevator scene didn't turn into one of those Lwaxana "pity poor me scenes". And again, like I stated earlier, the give and take between Odo and Lwaxana was poignant and quite touching to watch in that elevator. It actually was a nice character piece for Odo, he has so many layers to his very complicated character, he remained a wonderful mystery all the way through the entire series.

[USS Defiant]

DS9 season 1: episode #17
Dramatis Personae:
A Klingon ship returns from the Gamma Quadrant, virtually destroyed by an internal mutiny. When the DS9 crew beams aboard the only survivor, they also beam over a "telepathic matrix," which infects the senior staff and causes them to re-enact an alien power struggle.

"Dramatis Personae" does not have an inspired premise, the power play has been done before, and using a convenient sci-fi explanation to warrant erratic behavior is hardly conducive for real drama. However, what works to a degree here are some of the subtle details surrounding the concept, which makes it interesting enough to be reasonably entertaining. The way Kira's mutiny grows out of the situation set up at the beginning of the episode - her disagreement with Sisko on allowing suspected Cardassian-aiding smugglers to dock at DS9 - smoothly integrates the real plot into the contrived one. Also neat is how the different characters take on distinct personalities of circumstance once the mutiny begins to brew. The uncaring Sisko, the sultrily venomous Kira, the anecdote-spewing Dax, the strategizing O'Brien, and the "neutral" Bashir in the middle, all are characters who convey a weird persona that somehow adds a bizarre spin on the show's tone. Odo's cleverness works decently in the plot, as he plays both sides long enough to resolve the problem. Most of the show's best moments are subtle touches that aren't crucial to the story, but raise the overall level of interest. Sisko's inexplicable clock-building is one welcome bit of strangeness in this 100 percent Joe Menosky concept. Still, the inevitable feeling of pointlessness that ultimately comes out of the forced situation is all but unavoidable.