Deep Space 9 Superior

[Gatefan1976]

Not sure what DVD market has to do with an HD version. People stream & download now.

Not sure what you mean by audience not being big enough- TNG has an HD version as does TOS. Don't forget, everyone's always going on about how DS9 has become just as popular as the other series in recent years (if not more so). It even won awards for the best Star trek series so not sure what u mean there - unless they're all blowing smoke.

Digi is talking about people moving away from hard media such as DVD's where you can put an insane mark-up on them and still make sales, vs a digital download where you cannot.
There may be a market for it, but there is no profit, and any student of the rules of acquisition would tell you this.

[moncapitain]

Digi is talking about people moving away from hard media such as DVD's where you can put an insane mark-up on them and still make sales, vs a digital download where you cannot.
There may be a market for it, but there is no profit, and any student of the rules of acquisition would tell you this.

u mean with contracts with huge streaming services like netflix reaching audiences much larger than they ever managed on DVDs& with prices of around $1.99 per episode EACH thats around $336 per person for a whole series and millions of people watching, they can't make a profit out of that $18 million it costs to make it? huh.

And that bizarre illogical splurge about it costing $17 mil to recreate TNG in HD but DS9 costing $40 mil to do the same I don't buy.

[P-90_177]

u mean with contracts with huge streaming services like netflix reaching audiences much larger than they ever managed on DVDs& with prices of around $1.99 per episode EACH thats around $336 per person for a whole series and millions of people watching, they can't make a profit out of that $18 million it costs to make it? huh.

And that bizarre illogical splurge about it costing $17 mil to recreate TNG in HD but DS9 costing $40 mil to do the same I don't buy.

considering the massive and detailed battle scenes in DS9 it makes perfect sense. Those scenes in Way of the Warrior and Sacrifice of Angels and so on were never designed for HD and unlike TNG, many of the later scenes in DS9 involved pure cgi while TNG still had the original shots from the models up to work with. Since the effects and external shots were far more complicated they are ultimately going to be far more expensive.

[DigiFluid]

considering the massive and detailed battle scenes in DS9 it makes perfect sense. Those scenes in Way of the Warrior and Sacrifice of Angels and so on were never designed for HD and unlike TNG, many of the later scenes in DS9 involved pure cgi while TNG still had the original shots from the models up to work with. Since the effects and external shots were far more complicated they are ultimately going to be far more expensive.

Right, exactly. To elaborate:

TNG was filmed almost exclusively with physical models for its special effects shots. Meaning, the models themselves are on the original negative, and could be rescanned at a vastly higher resolution than they were originally aired in. So they were able to take the whole thing and reproduce it in native HD resolution (1920x1080), with only occasional VFX do-overs required (phasers, for instance).

DS9 and VOY are a different animal. They're also filmed on film, but when complicated visual effects started being a regular feature in the show, those were only produced at the resolution that television broadcast at the time (320x240, if memory serves). So, while it is possible to rescan the original film for what's on it, all those juicy VFX shots we know and love are only extant in low resolution. Any attempt to 'upscale' them will just turn into a pixellated mess, like when you try to blow up a low-resolution image to fill your screen. Meaning that the majority of VFX shots from DS9 seasons 3-7, and the entire run of VOY, would need to be completely recreated from scratch, which would be enormously expensive.

[P-90_177]

Right, exactly. To elaborate:

TNG was filmed almost exclusively with physical models for its special effects shots. Meaning, the models themselves are on the original negative, and could be rescanned at a vastly higher resolution than they were originally aired in. So they were able to take the whole thing and reproduce it in native HD resolution (1920x1080), with only occasional VFX do-overs required (phasers, for instance).

DS9 and VOY are a different animal. They're also filmed on film, but when complicated visual effects started being a regular feature in the show, those were only produced at the resolution that television broadcast at the time (320x240, if memory serves). So, while it is possible to rescan the original film for what's on it, all those juice VFX shots we know and love are only extant in low resolution. Any attempt to 'upscale' them will just turn into a pixellated mess, like when you try to blow up a low-resolution image to fill your screen. Meaning that the majority of VFX shots from DS9 seasons 3-7, and the entire run of VOY, would need to be completely recreated from scratch, which would be enormously expensive.

Exactly. This is also the exact same reason why we will never see a Babylon 5 HD release.

[DigiFluid]

Seems today was the 20th anniversary of the debut of Section 31.

[EricG]

Digital video was 720x486 from the beginning in 1982, and professional DVRs (D-1) came out in 1986. So TNG could used it, but it was probably too expensive.

Star Trek II did use digital effects in 1982, though Wikipedia does not say what resolution.

I remember seeing Pixar and other demos at university around that time.

[planet_tv]

"What We Left Behind" World Premiere Set

[DigiFluid]

The episode "The Storyteller" has always bothered me.... Not just because it's a terrible episode (it is), but because I've never been able to make sense of the Bajoran village that Bashir and O'Brien go to. What is the atmospheric phenomenon threatening the village? The story seems to suggest that it's just a manifestation of the villagers' fears--a kind of mass-hysteria--but that's ruled out by Bashir and O'Brien, a pair of outsiders, seeing it too. Are the villagers meant to be mildly telepathic? Was there some intention of having all Bajorans be telepathic in this way?

[mad_gater]

The episode "The Storyteller" has always bothered me.... Not just because it's a terrible episode (it is), but because I've never been able to make sense of the Bajoran village that Bashir and O'Brien go to. What is the atmospheric phenomenon threatening the village? The story seems to suggest that it's just a manifestation of the villagers' fears--a kind of mass-hysteria--but that's ruled out by Bashir and O'Brien, a pair of outsiders, seeing it too. Are the villagers meant to be mildly telepathic? Was there some intention of having all Bajorans be telepathic in this way?

According to both Memory Alpha and Memory Beta, the Dal'Rok (the mythical energy creature in question was exactly that, a quasi-physical manifestation of the hate and mistrust the villagers of Sidau had for each other created by the Sirah by focusing those feelings through an orb fragment known as the paghvaram, ostensibly to give the villagers a common enemy to unite against, rallied by the Sirah. Theoretically, I suppose the Dal'Rok could be destroyed permanently if the paghvaram were to be destroyed. Not sure how you'd go about destroying an orb or a fragment of one though since I think the best even a Pah-Wraith-possessed Gul Dukat was able to do was neutralize them. Sisko was able to re-awaken them later. Of course destroying the Dal'Rok permanently in this manner likely would've just caused the villagers to focus their hate and mistrust on each other again, nearly destroying themselves as what almost happened in the past, necessitating the first Sirah to take the steps of using the paghvaram.

[mad_gater]

As far as the villagers being mildly telepathic, it's possible, with the paghvaram merely acting as a telepathic focus and magnifier, or it could be that the orb fragment itself was telepathic, being a fragment of something created by the people they worshiped as gods it's possible they may have imbued the orbs (and by extension any fragment thereof) with a form of quasi-sentience that was telepathic in nature.

[DigiFluid]

"What you call genocide, I call a day's work!"

Man, even 25 years later, "Duet" is a chilling, depressing masterpiece of an episode.

[mad_gater]

"What you call genocide, I call a day's work!"

Man, even 25 years later, "Duet" is a chilling, depressing masterpiece of an episode.

It was quite the masterpiece alright, the way your heart breaks when you find out that the bad guy was just a file clerk who went 'round the bend listening to the screams of those his boss put to death, esp. when the file clerk begins to weep

And it was a masterpiece of character development for Kira, establishing a genuine rapport with a member of a species she loathed, and being saddened to find out that members of her own species could be just as racist as the Cardassians when the one Bajoran guy knifes the good Cardassian in the back, simply because he was Cardassian

[DigiFluid]

Exactly!

[mad_gater]

"Why? He wasn't Darhe'el!"
"He's a Cardassian. That's reason enough."
"No… It's not."

- Kira and Kainon, after Kainon kills Marritza