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    #31
    DS9 is by far my favourite Trek. Even though many people seem to think that Sisko was undeveloped, he became an incredibly complex character at the end (episodes like In The Pale Moonlight [Dancing With The Devil], Far Beyond The Stars (I still wonder which side sent the vision to him- it could have weakened him to the point of doing what he did in In the Pale Moonlight, but it also somewhat strengthened him), The Visitor (the best episode of Trek ever), and many others).

    Almost all of DS9's characters were given a tremendous amount of character development- a refreshing change from TNG, where only Picard and Data were developed, TOS, where only McCoy, Spock, and Kirk were developed, and Voyager/ENT, where no characters were developed. The vast supporting cast included so many great characters- Garak, Dukat, Weyoun, Ross, Eddington (I loved his speach to Sisko about the Federation being worse than the Borg), Ziyal, and many others. Even considering all of his flaws, I loved Jake Sisko. He made The Visitor possible, demonstrated that not all humans join Starfleet (something that had annoyed me since TNG), and had a great arc.

    I don't share the hate of the Ferengi that many others have. Certainly, many of their episodes weren't great, but some were very good. This post (http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=15056&hl) expresses my feelings about them very well.

    Favourite DS9 episodes:
    The Visitor (Trek's all time best episode)
    Sacrifice of the Angels
    In The Pale Moonlight
    The Wire
    The Die is Cast/By Inferno's Light
    The Seige of AR-####

    My favourite Treks:
    DS9
    TOS/TNG (tie)
    ENT
    VOY

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      #32
      Nice post Aaron...I agree the developement of most of the characters on DS9 were fun to watch and made the show all the better. I think alot of that had to do with the setting of DS9 (and 7 seasons worth of epsiodes helped too) on a fixed space station.

      Like I said before I grew to like the Ferengi episodes (I always liked Quark from the beginning!). Some of my favorite Ferengi episodes are...
      season 1) The Nagus
      season 2) Rules of Acquisition....Profit and Loss
      season 3) House of Quark....Prophet Motive (great epsiode)
      season 4) Little Green Man....Body Parts
      season 5) The Ascent....Business as Usual
      season 6) The Magnificent Ferengi (great episode)....Profit and Lace (ugly X-dressing Quark)
      season 7) The Siege of AR-58....The Emperor's New Cloak

      I believe the Ferengi episodes were great due in large part to Armman Shimmerman.

      All you favorites episodes you mentioned are all one I consider great as well.

      Speaking of DS9, I just read that Brock Peters (Joseph Sisko 'Sisko's father' and Admiral Cartwright from a couple ST movies) passed away.
      the Fifth Race

      Mod@ www.Bodybuilding.com
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        #33
        It's odd really, I have never been much into Trek, but after catching a couple of quick glimpses I was transformed. Bashir is by far the best Doctor in the series and the relationship between him and O'Brien was pure entertainment, like friends in the playground! Sisko, undeveloped, I think not, he is the best of all Trek characters and by far the best captain, Picard and Kirk have nothing on him! It was the high point of the whole idea of Trek as it was one big plotline really, DS9 is the second greatest sci-fi ever, behind SG-1 of course, and just beating Atlantis to the post. Viva la DS9
        Equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who is confronted with it.
        - Joss Whedon - Equality Now

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          #34
          Originally posted by PtahTheCreationGod
          It's odd really, I have never been much into Trek, but after catching a couple of quick glimpses I was transformed. Bashir is by far the best Doctor in the series and the relationship between him and O'Brien was pure entertainment, like friends in the playground! Sisko, undeveloped, I think not, he is the best of all Trek characters and by far the best captain, Picard and Kirk have nothing on him! It was the high point of the whole idea of Trek as it was one big plotline really, DS9 is the second greatest sci-fi ever, behind SG-1 of course, and just beating Atlantis to the post. Viva la DS9

          Bravo my friend!....I have DS9 ranked as my 2nd favorite scifi series of alltime right behind Stargate of course

          I agree the relationship between O'Brien and Bashir was great TV!. The dual character relationships on DS9 were as good as it gets. Odo and Quark come to mind, Worf and Jadzia, Kira and Odo, Kira and Quark all great!. Sisko and Martok, Worf and Martok, Garak and Bashir were my favorites.

          I agree Sisko was great as a Captain, but he was even better when he was promoted in Season 6. I still have to go with Picard as my favorite Star Trek Captain. Sisko would probably be second.

          Heres my list of alltime favorite scifi series
          1) Stargate (simply the best!)
          2) Deep Space 9 (a very close second!)
          3) The Next Generation
          4) Farscape
          5) Stargate Atlantis (it's new but I already think its a classic!)
          6) Babylon 5
          7) Jerimiah (wish it would have stuck around longer!)
          8) Voyager
          9) Andromeda (Yes, I am one the few that really enjoyed it, except that last season)
          10) Firefly (another one that could have been great if it stuck around)
          the Fifth Race

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            #35
            Originally posted by the Fifth Race
            I believe the Ferengi episodes were great due in large part to Armman Shimmerman.
            I was watching "Who mourns for Morn?" the other day. I loved that bit where the woman was about to cut off Quark's thumb, he has the greatest girly scream ever!!

            The center of Khlysty surrounds me

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              #36
              I didn't think sisko was underdeveloped, but he was certainly slow to get going. That's not a bad thing in retrospect, because with a seven year run it's worth pacing things a bit, and I do think that it allowed the ensemble feel to develop unhindered by the Main Character factor.

              He was very dour at first. Jake's presence was good because it gave me a handle on sisko and a sign that the dourness wasn't all there would be to him.

              Oh, and I've just thought of another reason why DS9 is my favourite: Trials and Tribbleations. The looks on the face of the chap from the bureau of temporal affairs (?) when Sisko was trying to explain were marvellous.

              Madeleine

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                #37
                DS9 definitely had a lot going for it and I enjoy a lot of it. It had depth, great characters with interesting backstories, I loved the whole Jem'Hadar/Dominion premise. But for some reason quite a few of the episodes bore me and it's never been my favourite. And as for the final season...don't get me started. I'm with those, too, who get irked that TF couldn't stay on for just one more season. The whole Jadzia dying thing ticks me off to this day.

                No, my favourite has to be Voyager. For the simple fact that I adored the characters and there was rarely a week I didn't enjoy an episode. I even like episodes and characters that, apparently, I hear most fans were appalled by. <g> Neelix grew on me, for instance. And I love that episode with B'lanna bringing the robots that were at war back online. Yes, I do! So sue me!

                I did get annoyed at the whole Sof9 thing during its first run. Not for the 'sex bimbo' angle that irked many fans, but just for the fact that as soon as she arrived it seemed that hardly a week went by without her saving the ship. Suddenly, no one else seemed able to think for themselves. But she grew on me too and in reruns I enjoy her in the episodes that previously she irked me in.

                Albion
                Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

                Richard Dean Anderson

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Albion
                  DS9 definitely had a lot going for it and I enjoy a lot of it. It had depth, great characters with interesting backstories, I loved the whole Jem'Hadar/Dominion premise. But for some reason quite a few of the episodes bore me and it's never been my favourite. And as for the final season...don't get me started. I'm with those, too, who get irked that TF couldn't stay on for just one more season. The whole Jadzia dying thing ticks me off to this day.

                  No, my favourite has to be Voyager. For the simple fact that I adored the characters and there was rarely a week I didn't enjoy an episode. I even like episodes and characters that, apparently, I hear most fans were appalled by. <g> Neelix grew on me, for instance. And I love that episode with B'lanna bringing the robots that were at war back online. Yes, I do! So sue me!

                  I did get annoyed at the whole Sof9 thing during its first run. Not for the 'sex bimbo' angle that irked many fans, but just for the fact that as soon as she arrived it seemed that hardly a week went by without her saving the ship. Suddenly, no one else seemed able to think for themselves. But she grew on me too and in reruns I enjoy her in the episodes that previously she irked me in.

                  Albion
                  I'm curious Albion, what did'nt you like about the final season of DS9?, I have heard a few say they did'nt like it. Perosnally I thought it was great, it did seem like one long episode but there were a few stand alones during season 7.

                  7 of 9 did have that whole hot as hell thing going on, but she turned out to be way more in the end. She was smartly written and greatly acted!.
                  the Fifth Race

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                    #39
                    I agree with you Fifth Race, season's 6 and 7 (and season 5 for that matter) when the whole Dominion conflict started, is when the show really became something special in my eyes!. I loved all the seasons of DS9 but especially the latter seasons.

                    7 of 9 = yummy

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                      #40
                      For me:

                      1. DS9
                      2. Voyager
                      3. TNG
                      4. Enterprise
                      5. TOS
                      Originally posted by Rainbow Sun Francks
                      Live within the moment. There is only now, ENJOY.


                      Proud F.O.R.D. Member My LiveJournal Rainbow/Aiden Ford Thunk Thread

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                        #41
                        Oh, DS9, how I loved thee...

                        The Sisko (particularly when he shaved his head and went all hard - remember the Maquis?)

                        Miles and Julian (their fabulous buddy/buddy relationship -
                        BASHIR - But that's not
                        the point. I love her -- but I
                        like you more.
                        You see? I can admit it.

                        O'BRIEN - Well, I love my wife.)

                        Well, bless my slashy little heart!

                        The Bajoran/Cardassian arc

                        Kira and Odo, though it should have been left unrequited.

                        Martok, the only Klingon worth his salt.

                        Gul Dukat, slimy git to the end and Weyoun, in all his obsequious glory

                        and of course, the absloute class of our ex-torturer turned tailor, plain and simple Garak.

                        Favourite episodes?
                        In the Pale Moonlight - Sisko does what needs to be done, bugger the consequences.
                        Siege of AR558 - War is hard.
                        Rocks and Shoals - War is really hard and the Vorta are slimy gits.
                        The Wire - Garak's mind is a dark and dangerous place.
                        Cardassians - Complicated alien morals. And Garak can't resist Dukat baiting.
                        Duet - Kira vs the war criminal, no winners.
                        Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast - The only thing scarier than Garak is Garak and his dad.
                        Our Man Bashir - Bashir, Julian Bashir. Best holosuite goes awry story evah.
                        Hard Time - Colm Meany might look like a Python extra in this but he can bloody well act.
                        The Quickening - Bashir vs the Prior Plague. The plague wins.
                        Far Beyond the Stars - the story of Benny Russel.
                        Trials and Tribbleations - Dax in a red 1960's mini skirt, oh, and tribbles.

                        And there are many more.

                        FF, Niner and proud.
                        Last edited by Frostfox; 25 September 2005, 08:26 AM.
                        sigpic

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                          #42
                          Frostfox and Starbase I whole heartedly agree!!! (proudly giving greenies to you both!)

                          As I posted earlier Frostfox, 'In the Pale Moonlight' and 'Siege of AR-58' among many others, were DS9 at it's best (as alot of people are atesting to). Those two episodes in paticular showed the depth and skill of Avery Brook's (Sisko). They were both very intense epsiodes also!. Jadzia and Quark were also paticulary good in 'the Siege of AR-58'!.
                          the Fifth Race

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                          Mod@ www.MMAforumcom

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Frostfox
                            Oh, DS9, how I loved thee...
                            A very apt sentence
                            gumboYaYa: you are all beautiful, your words and openness are what make that shine. don't forget how much talent love and beauty you all have.
                            so for now, peace love love love more love and happy, and thank you, thank you, thank you
                            love Torri

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                              #44
                              Its hard for me to really pick a series that I think is superior.
                              Each was different, and each did what they did to the very best of their ability.

                              Let's look at what we've got:

                              TNG was an episode by episode series. The writers and idea makers were phenomenal at coming up with new and splendid stories for each week. Usually, there was a problem that was presented - either to the entire ship or to a specific character, and then usually by the end of the episode it was resolved. Even though the story was not a continuing arc, each character was allowed many opportunities to show themselves. TNG was bonefied Star Trek. It was a more science fiction than drama, and delved into present day social morrays much like the original series did.

                              DS9 began that way. Each episode was a new storyline. But at the end of season two, the Dominion came into play, and from that point on DS9 was a changed series. Everything began to change from their uniforms to their overall looks. Sisko lost the stupid hair and went badass goatee and shaved head. Jadzia's hair stopped looking like a stupid bun. Kira looked less like a little mean prissy bajoran, and grew out her hair (she looked especially good in season 7).
                              The war story arc took Trek in a different direction. And for what DS9 turned into, it was absolutely amazing. I loved it. DS9 gave me one thing I love the most - space battles. So great. I think we saw the darker side of humanity through DS9, and it really showed us what can happen in wartime.

                              Voyager, despite what some people say, was awesome. I review DVDs for a website (see sig), and I got and reviewed all seven seasons of Voyager. It was actually my first time watching anything after the second season. I was blown away. So good. Janeway sold me not only as a captain, but as a good character. Once Kes was done away with (a stale but hot character), and 7o9 was added it added a whole new element. And they ran with it. And ran hard. Dark Frontier, Year of Hell, and a number of other episodes were just awesome. And I loved the final episode as well. Voyager was different in a way from DS9 and TNG because it maintained an overall story arc (getting home) but intertwined separate stories very well.

                              I've also reviewed the first three seasons of Enterprise on DVD (3 comes out this tuesday, but I've had it for about a week). Anyway, I think people expected too much out of it. They have to realize Enterprise takes place in a different time, when there was no Federation, and we didn't know all those other races that we can have confrontations and stories about. Again, I loved Enterprise. I thought it was well written and well acted. Scott Bakula is great, I don't care what you say. ENT has a fantastic main cast. And Jolene Blalock is extraordinarily hot. Think of Enterprise as a fledgling Star Trek, because that's really what it is.

                              So I can't pick one thats superior because to me they are all different and awesome in their own way.

                              Long. Live. Star Trek.

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                                #45
                                Awwww, come on Morbo go ahead and take stand, pick one

                                Voyager was a fantastic series!, like all the Trek series it had it's good, bad and great moments. 7 of 9 brought alot to story when she arrived, the Dr. was fanatastic (stole the show in my opinion). I especially like the whole angle with the Borg they used at the end of the series.

                                TNG, I agree with your take that most episodes were new and different stroylines week to week (which is a teastament to great writing).

                                TOS, great characters and like TNG, different and a wide variety of storylines.

                                Enterprise, other than the whole Xindi stroyline did'nt care for this one at all.

                                Deep Space 9, had it all!, characters, stroylines, alot of Klingon arcs, pure classic Trek and like you mentioned, fantastic space battles (with good stroylines behind them).
                                the Fifth Race

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