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  1. #1
    Colonel NowIWillDestroyAbydos's Avatar
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    Question Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    I will never get into Stargate: Horizon, and I'll follow it to only a complete minimum.

    So I'm wondering, how many of you will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

  2. #2
    Stargate: Horizon Staff Writer SierraGulf1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Alas, I'm afraid I'm qutie into it. What can I say?

  3. #3
    Colonel Major Tyler's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by NowIWillDestroyAbydos
    I will never get into Stargate: Horizon, and I'll follow it to only a complete minimum.

    So I'm wondering, how many of you will never get into Stargate: Horizon?
    If you don't like Horizon, make suggestions about how it could improve rather than just being negative and mean-spirited. If you're only going to follow Stargate: Horizon "to a complete minimum," why bother making a post about it at all?!

    With that said, to answer your question I probably won't get into Horizon because I really dislike the script format. I can't get lost in the narrative the way the story is presented. The story is intriguing, but I just can't get past the utilitarian, unemotional delivery provided by a script. My suggestion for improvement would be a more traditional novel writing style.
    Last edited by Major Tyler; September 14th, 2005 at 06:32 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Yeah, we appreciate suggestions! I'd also like to know WHY you'll never get into it, NowIWillDestroyAbydos.

    I'd glad you like the show, SierraGulf1!

    MT, I understand your comments, but there are several reasons why we write in script format. First, it is easier. I don't know if we'd be able to crank out twenty-four episodes a year if we wrote in novel form. Second, several of our writing staff (not me though; I'm the odd man out) are aspiring screenwriters and this is an excellent opportunity to prepare.

  5. #5
    Colonel Major Tyler's Avatar
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    Earth Symbol Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Pasternak
    Second, several of our writing staff (not me though; I'm the odd man out) are aspiring screenwriters and this is an excellent opportunity to prepare.
    One of my good buddies is an Electronic Media & Film major, and he's always writing scripts and doing revisions. I usually go to his film screening and he definitely gets better with every script he writes.

  6. #6
    Colonel NowIWillDestroyAbydos's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Damn, I knew this was going to blow up in my face.
    I started this thread because I asked a question in the Ask something to the person below you thread.
    I asked
    Quote Originally Posted by NowIWillDestroyAbydos
    Are you following Stargate: Horizon?
    I'll never get in to it.
    And I got this response
    Quote Originally Posted by Potions_Mistress
    nope!
    All I'm wondering is what people are not following Horizon?

    And Major Tyler I never said I didn't like Horizon.

  7. #7
    Stargate: Horizon Executive Producer & Creator Alex Rubit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Tyler
    With that said, to answer your question I probably won't get into Horizon because I really dislike the script format. I can't get lost in the narrative the way the story is presented. The story is intriguing, but I just can't get past the utilitarian, unemotional delivery provided by a script. My suggestion for improvement would be a more traditional novel writing style.
    Yeah, I can see how it can take some getting used to. But I've said before, over the course of the first half of the season, I believe the way the episodes are written has improved. Not with regard to the stories themselves, but with regard to writing the scripts for a general audience.

    The Horizon scripts are written with more detail than you'd normally write the scripts, including references to how a character is feeling, underlining emotions, or specifying reactions. Those are all things you'd hardly find in shooting scripts for weekly television shows, and often I'll say about a first draft - which is already really good - that it needs more detail.

    I kind of reacted to the word "unemotional." I believe there are quite some emotional moments in some of the episodes, because of the way they're written. I think the season finale had it's share of emotional moments. We want to give the readers the same feel they'd have if they'd watch the episodes on television, meaning they should have say the same dramatic impact. The way the first couple of episodes are written, isn't anywhere near to what the later and the upcoming episodes are like.
    Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

  8. #8
    Colonel Major Tyler's Avatar
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    Earth Symbol Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Rubit
    I kind of reacted to the word "unemotional." I believe there are quite some emotional moments in some of the episodes, because of the way they're written. I think the season finale had it's share of emotional moments. We want to give the readers the same feel they'd have if they'd watch the episodes on television, meaning they should have say the same dramatic impact. The way the first couple of episodes are written, isn't anywhere near to what the later and the upcoming episodes are like.
    I'm sorry if my word choice gave you the wrong impression...maybe "unpoetic" or "non-prose" would have been better. I've only read the first couple episodes, so I'm not really in a position to rate how the later episodes have been written. Perhaps I will try to look past the script in the hopes that the format will become more compatible with what I like reading.

  9. #9
    Data ShadowMaat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Personally, I can't stand the virtual cast. I don't think there's a person on it that I'd want to see onscreen, nevermind picturing them inside my head acting out the stories!

    But then, I tend to have a severe aversion to casts which are topheavy with known names from other shows. Might make it easier for people to picture them, but it also makes it harder (IMO) for people to picture them as the characters they're supposed to be instead of as the characters they're familiar with on TV.

  10. #10
    Colonel NowIWillDestroyAbydos's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat
    Personally, I can't stand the virtual cast. I don't think there's a person on it that I'd want to see onscreen, nevermind picturing them inside my head acting out the stories!

    But then, I tend to have a severe aversion to casts which are topheavy with known names from other shows. Might make it easier for people to picture them, but it also makes it harder (IMO) for people to picture them as the characters they're supposed to be instead of as the characters they're familiar with on TV.
    Ha! Ha! Someone who kind of agrees with me.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat
    Personally, I can't stand the virtual cast. I don't think there's a person on it that I'd want to see onscreen, nevermind picturing them inside my head acting out the stories!

    But then, I tend to have a severe aversion to casts which are topheavy with known names from other shows. Might make it easier for people to picture them, but it also makes it harder (IMO) for people to picture them as the characters they're supposed to be instead of as the characters they're familiar with on TV.
    Honestly, I can never picture those actors as the characters. My brain just makes up people to fill those shoes.

  12. #12
    Colonel Major Tyler's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Pasternak
    Honestly, I can never picture those actors as the characters. My brain just makes up people to fill those shoes.
    I agree. It's nice to have a template to work with, but the characters have evolved in my head. The first instance was when I was trying to imprint Browder's voice onto Chase...it just didn't work, LOL.

  13. #13
    Lieutenant Colonel Osiris-RA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Tyler
    With that said, to answer your question I probably won't get into Horizon because I really dislike the script format. I can't get lost in the narrative the way the story is presented. The story is intriguing, but I just can't get past the utilitarian, unemotional delivery provided by a script. My suggestion for improvement would be a more traditional novel writing style.
    Well, a scripts format isn't always unemotional. It depends on who's writing it and who they're trying to pander to. In screenwriting, being novelistic with your script is discouraged because you're trying to tell the skeleton of the story to a director or actor without forcing them to be exactly the way you want. Of course, usually when I start writing, I tend to be kind of creative so I can see the picture i'm painting better, then I water it down to the way who ever I'm showing it to wants it. If you read the Alien or Mission Impossible scripts, you'll find a very vibrant way of writing and very imaginative way of writing that sucks you into a story. You can tell if a script is relly well done if you've never even seen it on screen before and you read it, and you can see and hear everything on paper vividly. You'll be reading it and then you'll begin to see what's happening, hear sounds, see the characters. It's very weird actually, kinda freaky, but it's very cool. If you already have actors in mind the way SGH does, It's even better writing it if you already know the people who are portraying the characters from other things because you'll be hearing thier voices and see thier mannerisms, etc etc. How the actor would see the character though is bound to be different than you vision of course.

    But anyway, I guess some people like reading them and some don't. I'm really a rather finicky reader of scripts but I think the SGH scripts have been written very expressivley. Especially some coming up for S2.

  14. #14
    Stargate: Horizon Executive Producer & Creator Alex Rubit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat
    Personally, I can't stand the virtual cast. I don't think there's a person on it that I'd want to see onscreen, nevermind picturing them inside my head acting out the stories!

    But then, I tend to have a severe aversion to casts which are topheavy with known names from other shows. Might make it easier for people to picture them, but it also makes it harder (IMO) for people to picture them as the characters they're supposed to be instead of as the characters they're familiar with on TV.
    Well, with regard to that, we just don't have another choice than to "cast" actors which have appeared on other shows. If you're casting a new television show, you'll have auditions with hundreds of actors reading the parts, and you'd naturally go for fresh faces (in most of the cases); that's the normal process. Unfortunately we don't have that kind of luxury, so we can only cast people who we know.

    I don't think anyone will picture the actors as any other characters they have actually played, because one thing I can't stand is type-casting. Unfortunately it happens in the actual business every once and a while. Not when I have something to say, even if so far it's only virtual.

    These characters are in fact very, very different from the characters I've seen the actors play, and their purposely different. Based on what I've seen, I have the confidence that if this were actually on TV these guys could pull it off. Each of them are great actors. But let's say Colonel Grant is definitely not Jack Bauer (Kiefer's character on 24).

    Granted, maybe it's difficult for some to picture specific people for specific characters. But no one's forcing anyone to do that. Picture them the way you prefer. But if I'd be doing this for television, and could have anyone I like, those would be the choices. Although I do guess we would need an alternative for Ben, since he ended up actually having a major role in the Stargate universe.
    Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

  15. #15
    Stargate: Horizon Executive Producer & Creator Alex Rubit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-RA
    Well, a scripts format isn't always unemotional. It depends on who's writing it and who they're trying to pander to. In screenwriting, being novelistic with your script is discouraged because you're trying to tell the skeleton of the story to a director or actor without forcing them to be exactly the way you want. Of course, usually when I start writing, I tend to be kind of creative so I can see the picture i'm painting better, then I water it down to the way who ever I'm showing it to wants it. If you read the Alien or Mission Impossible scripts, you'll find a very vibrant way of writing and very imaginative way of writing that sucks you into a story. You can tell if a script is relly well done if you've never even seen it on screen before and you read it, and you can see and hear everything on paper vividly. You'll be reading it and then you'll begin to see what's happening, hear sounds, see the characters. It's very weird actually, kinda freaky, but it's very cool. If you already have actors in mind the way SGH does, It's even better writing it if you already know the people who are portraying the characters from other things because you'll be hearing thier voices and see thier mannerisms, etc etc. How the actor would see the character though is bound to be different than you vision of course.

    But anyway, I guess some people like reading them and some don't. I'm really a rather finicky reader of scripts but I think the SGH scripts have been written very expressivley. Especially some coming up for S2.
    That's a great way of putting it.

    Scripts can in general be very entertaining to read. To bring up a little example, there's an Oscar for "Best Screenplay." That award has nothing to do with the movie itself. It's an award for something most people haven't and probably will never see. It's for the script, and solely for the way it's written. In a lot of the cases "Best Picture" might go to another movie.

    And, yeah, especially the Season Two scripts have...a nice way of being written. What can I say? Just took us a whole season to figure out what works best for us, but it sure is working now.
    Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

  16. #16
    Chief Master Sergeant PrimalAscended's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Thought I'd pitch in with my 2 pence worth.

    Sorry, but I gotta agree with Abydos, I just tried reading the first fic "Awakening" and just couldn't get into it at all. The villains seemed "familiar" as did their name, but hey there are only some many stories to tell (or so I hear). Like ShadowMaat I'm not much for the "cast", because my imagination wants to fill in my own version of the characters but that's just me.

    What really niggled in my brain though was the terms the writers are using in realtion to the stories and the writers......."virtual series", "virtual cast", there being an "executive producer" etc. The stories are fanfiction at the end of the day and it just seems that the writers are trying to elevate it to a level it hasn't achieved and distancing it from its fanfiction roots. Don't get me wrong I've read some great fanfics and love trawling the fanfic sites for a good read

    People behind Horizon, keep up with what you're doing as you are obviously entertaining alot of people in the GateVerse but sadly you aren't doing it for me. I applaud your hard work and creativity though, as it must be extremely time consuming (and frustrating getting comments like mine).Good luck with the "series", I'll pop back now and again and maybe I'll get into it someday.
    Last edited by PrimalAscended; September 15th, 2005 at 09:32 AM.

  17. #17
    Second Lieutenant Simonthefurling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    I personally am not into Stargate Horizon. I admirer what your doing with it, its just not something I can get into. Bearing in mind your writing roughly episodes as long as an average SG1 episode, to watch that takes 42 minutes, but to read its basically as long as a small book. However I acknowledge this couldnt be changed without seriously just making a string of fan fiction, so fair enough. It's just a time issue I have wearby sitting at my computer for hours on end isnt A) Something i have the time for B ) Healthy.

    However my bigger niggle is the script format. I know you guys are budding writers and what have you but, its just not something thats good to read in my opinion. The script format is not for reading, its for being transferred into a tv show, which isnt happening here. Granted you do add extra detail but still, the point is still a fair one in my opinion. Perhaps you could try getting a budding author to pen an episode, see what the fans reactions are on the forums, if they like it perhaps you could include 2-4 novel esc episodes a season. It'l still be advancing the storyline just like a script would.

    Now, in reply to Primal Ascended post I do sort of agree. Not with his examples though, at the end of the day you are the next level of FF, so virtual series is ok, the virtual cast can help some readers, and the executive producer is just a staff position. However along Primals lines comes my point. Having 'air dates' is a little over the top in my opinion, when really your what, uploading the scripts onto a website?

    But anyway, from what i read on the website got me actual kind of excited about SGH, its just the way its delivered that put me off. Anyhow, i only posted that because there was a thread for it. Had there not have been i assure you i would leave you to it.

    ~Simon

  18. #18
    Stargate: Horizon Executive Producer & Creator Alex Rubit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalAscended
    Thought I'd pitch in with my 2 pence worth.

    Sorry, but I gotta agree with Abydos, I just tried reading the first fic "Awakening" and just couldn't get into it at all. The villains seemed "familiar" as did their name, but hey there are only some many stories to tell (or so I hear). Like ShadowMaat I'm not much for the "cast", because my imagination wants to fill in my own version of the characters but that's just me.

    What really niggled in my brain though was the terms the writers are using in realtion to the stories and the writers......."virtual series", "virtual cast", there being an "executive producer" etc. The stories are fanfiction at the end of the day and it just seems that the writers are trying to elevate it to a level it hasn't achieved and distancing it from its fanfiction roots. Don't get me wrong I've read some great fanfics and love trawling the fanfic sites for a good read
    I'm not so sure if I agree with that. Not to say that there's anything wrong with fan fiction, but I've never considered Horizon to be that. I've never written any fan fiction, and I'm pretty sure I never will. Again, there's no problem with it, it's just something I've never considered, or had any interest in doing. The things I write outside of Horizon are scripts, which I hope to produce and shoot eventually.

    The term "virtual series" is not something we've invented. There's a ton of virtual series out there; most of them have an official "virtual cast." Using the term "executive producer" is nothing uncommon either, because, to be honest, that's exactly what I do on this series. What probably doesn't get through to the outside (and there's no reason why it should) is that this is a ton of hard work, and goes non-stop. Writing is only part of my job. You actually produce this show as you'd produce a television show or a movie, the difference is you don't shoot it; it's my responsibility to overlook everything from the development of the stories, the CG designs, the music, the promo pictures, or any other extras. In addition to that you're always on a tight schedule. For me, this is just like another job; it's not just something I do every now and then when feel like it. Can't remember the last time I had a day of, because, as I said, we're on a schedule. Right now we have six episodes in production; four in script development stage, one is in pre-production (outline stage), another is in post-production (some final revisions). In addition to that we've got several 3D designs in the works, all in various stages; the uniforms are currently being designed as well. We hope to soon also have another musical theme, once our composer will become available. It's a huge production for a virtual series. Very hectic, at times stressful, but I love every second of it!

    People behind Horizon, keep up with what you're doing as you are obviously entertaining alot of people in the GateVerse but sadly you aren't doing it for me. I applaud your hard work and creativity though, as it must be extremely time consuming (and frustrating getting comments like mine).Good luck with the "series", I'll pop back now and again and maybe I'll get into it someday.
    If you want my advice, check out the later episodes if you want to truly get an idea of what Horizon is like. I don't want to get started with bringing up all the points that I criticize with regard to the pilot (and I love criticizing my own work), but it's nowhere near of what I'd consider some of the best episodes of the season. I'd recommend the final seven, starting with "The Enoly." You'll find a new alien species, which is very different from what we've previously encountered. As is their name, which is the same as the episode title. They'll play a big role in Season Two, which I, in fact, consider the real start of the series. Season One was the run through; we're just getting started now.

    So, to bottom line it, Horizon is not considered fan fiction; it's a virtual series. We all agreed on that early on, which is why it has its seperate forum section, and is not part of the fan-fic folder. Again, not saying that there's anything wrong with fan-fic. There's just too big a difference between fan-fic and a virtual series production.
    Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

  19. #19
    Stargate: Horizon Executive Producer & Creator Alex Rubit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simonthefurling
    Perhaps you could try getting a budding author to pen an episode, see what the fans reactions are on the forums, if they like it perhaps you could include 2-4 novel esc episodes a season. It'l still be advancing the storyline just like a script would.
    Novels within the season is very unlikely to happen. However, I have to say I have considered something like this. But instead of having the story of the novel set within the season itself, it would be taking place between two seasons, and kind of serve as a prequel for the upcoming season.

    But to be perfectly honest, if something like this were ever to happen, I'd like to achieve some kind of deal with MGM, and actually sell those novels.
    Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

  20. #20
    Data ShadowMaat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will never get into Stargate: Horizon?

    Well, personally, I tend to agree with Primal and Simon. It's one thing to play around with the whole "virtual series" thing, but the lengths that are taken to try and pretend this is a real series in all ways except the fact that is isn't on the air... it comes across as highly pretentious to me. Whether you're willing to admit it or not, it IS fanfic and putting it in script format doesn't change that. I wrote a fanscript for a show once. It was challenging and tricky and very sloppily done, and I learned a lot from the many MANY mistakes I made. But I still know that it's ONLY a "fancy" fic and that it would never make it past any serious producer's slush pile.

    As far as I can tell, no one on the staff is a professional writer (or professional producer, director, whatever). Have any of you even studied screenwriting beyond flipping through a book or two? Has anyone had any other work professionally published in a "real" media that isn't a fan-run zine or website?

    And while it might be fun to think that "maybe someday" Horizon can go beyond being a virtual series, to imply however lightly that it might some day be a real thing is sheer lunacy. It's a FAN SERIES. Plain and simple. At best it's a great way to show show your enthusiasm and creativity. At worst, it's copyright infringement. Horizon will NEVER be anything more than a virtual series and no matter how many bells and whistles get added to the site/series, that isn't going to change.

    Maybe some day if one or two of you are "good enough" (however Hollywood chooses to define that) and if you try hard enough and keep studying and come up with some good, original ideas, then maybe you'll go on to work in TV. And if you're really, truly exceptional and determined, you could wind up with your own series, but that show will NOT be Horizon and I'm 99% sure it won't be any other Stargate series, either. If you choose, at that time, to do a Stargate knock-off and if the studio and network choose to allow it, then that's your perogative. But if you think the cries of plagiarism are loud now, be prepared for them to be twice as loud when your show comes out.

    I don't find the stories compelling. Yes, there's the whole "there are only five real stories to be done" thing, but what I've seen is familiar and I don't feel that enough has been done to make it truly original. I don't like it when the real producers of Stargate slack off and dish out rehashed material and I don't like to see it in fics, either.

    I don't find the characters engaging, even disregarding the cast. I can't identify with any of them and I just don't find myself drawn in to their situations. I just don't care what happens to them, and that's an important factor to me in ANY story, whether it's on TV, in a book, or on my computer screen. I want to be able to root for the good guys. Or the bad guys. Or ANY guys/gals/creatures.

    Sorry, but I'm giving Horizon a pass.

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