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**Erised** · 14 September 2005, 11:40 AM

What? You don't like O'Neill? Shame on you!!!

And people don't have to hate O'Neill in order to like Mitchell. Well except for you maybe. I love O'Neill and Mitchell.

**Mattathias2.0** · 14 September 2005, 11:50 AM

I'm a fan of both. O'Neill as General still was sketchy though.

**Susan28** · 14 September 2005, 11:50 AM

Well that's certainly a ...different opinion of the O'Neill character. If he is such an insult to the Air Force, than why would the actual Air Force Chief of Staff, General John P. Jumper, present RDA with an award and make him an honourary brigadier general for portraying the Air Force in a positive light? But I'm sure your Dad knows better...

As far as what you said about Cam, I do think his character has potential, and I am glad they are making him different from O'Neill. I hope they get a chance to continue to develop him.

**FeloniousMonk** · 14 September 2005, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by sgatelvr

I don't know anything about shooting a P-90 from the hip. But I do wonder why it would less effective for Mitchell to do it than Teal'c? Doesn't make much sense to me ...

this is the only part I can comment on; teal'c was firing a much larger weapon that's designed to be shot from the hip. with a high rate of fire and larger rounds, accuracy isn't as important as laying down a massive wave of bullets

Actually, I should clarify. It's not designed to be shot from the hip but made to do so easier then lifting it to a proper aiming position. It's designed to be fired while lying prone and with the gun supported by a bipod under the barrel. Mitchell was firing his P90 incorrectly, no two ways about it. It's not a big deal or anything, but one of my favorite things to nitpick about is improper firearm use in movies and tv.

**Kelt'ar** · 14 September 2005, 12:39 PM

WHAT!!! SHOLVAAAAAH!!!!! (MOTHER IS HOLDING ME BACK FROM SMASHING THE monitor) (CALMS DOWN).

I think that your view of O'neill is extremely ridiculous. He is incredibly jovial and sometimes disrespectful, yes. But he is the perfect example of a soldier (or airman in this case). To say that he is a disgrace is a....Disgrace. (smashes monitor).

**FeloniousMonk** · 14 September 2005, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Kelt'ar

But he is the perfect example of a soldier (or airman in this case).

while I don't think the character is a disgrace....are you serious with this line? :wtf: have you ever met an air force colonel?

**Lightsabre** · 14 September 2005, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by FeloniousMonk

while I don't think the character is a disgrace....are you serious with this line? :wtf: have you ever met an air force colonel?

Jack is nowhere near the perfect officer. Watch Shades of Grey when Hammond reads out his record.
However, I do think he's a good officer.
Mitchell is too, and I think, given the chance, that he'll do a good job.
As to the P90 thing, it's a minor flaw. Let's let it go.
As to Mitchell covering when Teal'c had the gun for that, I said it on another thread and I'll say it again.
Teal'c was walking point becuase his gun is ALSO useful for openeing a path as well as support fire.
Now, if I was mitchell, ambushed, with an unknown number of enemies between me and the gate, I would keep Teal'c on point, so increasing my teams' chances of reaching the gate.

**TheGreatLordGeorge** · 14 September 2005, 01:44 PM

O'niell is arrogant but then again, he is usually right when dealing with milataristic operations. as for oniell being dumb, the tbtp have hinted, and we have that he is a very smart man. he just plays dumb. but most of all the bottom line is that when offworld and on missions, he can make important judgements, never gives up and never leaves a man behind. he is a good soldier.

**scifiannie** · 14 September 2005, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by sgatelvr

[color=black]O'Neill was the biggest joke as a military Colonel AND General that I have ever seen in my life!

I know nothing about the military, but always wondered how someone with O'Neill's casual--not to mention disrespectful--attitude could make it to his rank. I always attributed it to the fact that maybe his missions usually succeeded, so he got results. But it was interesting to hear that your Dad, a career military man, couldn't watch the show because O'Neill was so out of line most of the time.

Of course, the show is, well, a show, and despite the claims of "reality" (which I have disputed many times on the forum to a less than happy reception!) it picks and chooses what areas of real life it wants to emulate closely. O'Neill might not have made it in the "real" air force, but he follows in the great American tradition of characters who make their own rules--cowboys, cops, PIs. We see it in the movies all the time. It's part of our mythology. I also suspect that RDA shaped the character he was comfortable with, rather than shaping his performance to the character as originally written in the movie. It might not be real, but it was entertaining. At least for me. I can see where someone who wants more reality might be disappointed, though. I get real every day just looking out my window, so less real is fine by me.

Originally posted by sgatelvr

Now, Mitchell. I think the biggest problem with Mitchell is that tptb are trying to dumb him down like they did with O'Neill, but it isn't believable with BB. I am hoping against hope that tptb will give BB more freedom to mold Mitchell into a believable and likeable character. He isn't O'Neill (thank God), and I don't think any of the fans want him to be.

Well, a lot of fans keep comparing the two, which makes me wonder...I think the biggest problem with Mitchell is that outside of Babylon he hasn't been given enough screen time to communicate much of anything. We're all scrambling to hold up a line here, a look there, to give us insight. We just need to see more of him.

Originally posted by sgatelvr

Mitchell has a lot of experience--command experience. I wish tptb would let him show it.

They're too terrified of turning off RDA fans who complained early on that they didn't want the show to turn into the Cam Mitchell show. As if it wasn't the RDA show...

Originally posted by sgatelvr

Yes, he has a good sense of humor, and if Sam, Daniel and Teal'c weren't so crabby this season, they would enjoy it.

LOL! Crabby is a good word...

Originally posted by sgatelvr

[color=black]For example: Mitchell talking at the beginning of Babylon. Finally, someone on SG1 besides Jonas showing some enthusiasm for being off world!!

Yeah, I liked that part, too. But, you know, going to other planets, fighting aliens...it can be so ho-hum.

Originally posted by sgatelvr

And to the detractors who have called Mitchell a "country bumpkin" or something like that. Whatever. Maybe he is being humble in the presence of the infamous SG1 team? He obviously respects them very much. When the situation calls for him to command, he commands. Otherwise, he remains humble. In my opinion, that’s better than being a sarcastic prick all the time.

Love your attitude, dude. Yeah, it's nice to see a bit of optimism, even naivete, if that's what it is. Will be interesting to see whether or not that changes for Cam. Whether or not Cooper/Wright will give him enough screen time for us to see what happens.

[/QUOTE]

**bmicales** · 14 September 2005, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by FeloniousMonk

this is the only part I can comment on; teal'c was firing a much larger weapon that's designed to be shot from the hip. with a high rate of fire and larger rounds, accuracy isn't as important as laying down a massive wave of bullets

Actually, I should clarify. It's not designed to be shot from the hip but made to do so easier then lifting it to a proper aiming position. It's designed to be fired while lying prone and with the gun supported by a bipod under the barrel. Mitchell was firing his P90 incorrectly, no two ways about it. It's not a big deal or anything, but one of my favorite things to nitpick about is improper firearm use in movies and tv.

First off, Mitchell was NOT firing his P90 from the hip. In fact he was firing his P90 in very much the same position as O'Neill did in Allegiance (season 6) and as shown in a P90 promotional video

From this video (made by the manufactuer), there are three positions that the P90 can be fired (time points in the video are also given) :

3:17 - lying down - sighted (this is the most common position) - it can also be sighted while standing.
4:26 - stiff arm
6:24 - just below chest height (the position Mitchell is using)
also view Season 6 Allegiance (at the end) - O'Neill is firing his P90 from just below chest height.

It may appear that he is firing from the hip, but he is in a lower position so that his torso is less exposed. This brings his chest closer to the hip, but he is holding the weapon correctly (below the chest, above the hip).

Bruce

**greytop** · 14 September 2005, 06:05 PM

I believe that people have forgotten, although he maybe a great leader, Mitchell came to join SG-1 notto lead it. He wanted to learn from the best. He is still learning from the best, so he will make mistakes. To me leading something like SG-1 is different from leading a fighter squadron.

This is my $.04 worth.

**the fifth man** · 14 September 2005, 06:21 PM

I liked O'Neill the entire time he was on the show, and I like Mitchell now. I think he needs no defense, and we should see great things out of his character as the show goes on.

**sgatelvr** · 15 September 2005, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Erised

What? You don't like O'Neill? Shame on you!!!

And people don't have to hate O'Neill in order to like Mitchell. Well except for you maybe. I love O'Neill and Mitchell.

I never said I hated O'Neill. I said he is what kept me from watching the show to begin with. If you compare RDA's portrayal of O'Neill to Kurt Russell's in the movie, you will note a very distinct difference. For me, being so in love with the movie, RDA's portrayal (or maybe the WRITERS protrayal) of O'Neill drove me away from the show.

If you reread my post, you may note that I said that, after I started tuning in, I watched every episode I could find. Now, in 2005, (since starting watching in 2002), I have watched every Stargate SG1 episode, from every season, and I have grown to love the show (INCLUDING O'Neill). However, I am not going to sit here and put down an excellent character like Mitchell because of my loyalty to O'Neill or the rest of the team. And I'm not going to try to rewrite history to put O'Neill as the epitome of an Air Force officer and Mitchell as a buffoon because I can't deal with change. In my opinion, change is good. Bringing Mitchell on board as the leader of SG1 (Yes, I think he is the leader over Carter--who I also happen to love--and I am absolutely NOT going to argue my opinion. If you need qualification of my opinion, read Lightsabre's opinion. I completely agree with him) was the best thing they could do. BB is a great actor and he brings a terrific presence to the show. Well, as long as tptb let him, that is.

**sgatelvr** · 15 September 2005, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by Susan28

Well that's certainly a ...different opinion of the O'Neill character. If he is such an insult to the Air Force, than why would the actual Air Force Chief of Staff, General John P. Jumper, present RDA with an award and make him an honourary brigadier general for portraying the Air Force in a positive light? But I'm sure your Dad knows better...

As far as what you said about Cam, I do think his character has potential, and I am glad they are making him different from O'Neill. I hope they get a chance to continue to develop him.

I don't know ... maybe the same reason Paul McCarthy, Elton John and others have been knighted by the Queen of England?

{Edit: snip}

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In defense of Mitchell (Spoilers)

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