Conversion (208)

[smushybird]

And this kiss I think was no big deal. Sheppard was under the influence of the bug. That's it. I did find it strange that it's been almost a year since they met and she still called Shep by his rank.

Rodney still calls him Col. Sheppard too. And I think Beckett does, sometimes.
It seems weird to me, because after that much time together people are usually on a first name basis--although I guess there are situations where the last name gains a certain intimacy, like Mulder and Scully, but even they called each other Dana and Fox once in a while.
I think everyone's called Sheppard John now, except Rodney. I'm still waiting on that one. Maybe it'll be on an angsty moment in Grace Under Pressure. I have my fingers crossed.

[PsychoPenguin]

I can't think of anything I didn't like in this episode. It was a combo of "Bane" and "Broca Divide", but it was better than both those old SG1 episodes. Now that we've seen Joe Flanigan get nasty, anyone else want to see him in a film playing a real evil bad-ass?

Have you ever seen the "CSI: Miami" he was on a few years back? I had no real reason to pay attention to him, not knowing who he was, and I was still in my "I'm only watching this show for Emily Procter, because I loved her on 'The West Wing'" phase, but I remember thinking, "OMG. This guy is *such* a creep." It actually kept me from registering how hot he was, or that I'd seen him before on both "Dawson's Creek" and "Murphy Brown." All I could think was, "Ewwwww. Evil, evil, evil..."

[coolove]

Have you ever seen the "CSI: Miami" he was on a few years back? I had no real reason to pay attention to him, not knowing who he was, and I was still in my "I'm only watching this show for Emily Procter, because I loved her on 'The West Wing'" phase

That's the same reason why I watched it too. LOL. Okay, off topic but oh well.

[startrekempress]

<snip>

Of course, to me it looks as if the poor Colonel Caldwell has it bad for Weir!!

<snip>

Yay! Someone else saw it! I think that would be an interesting ship to watch.

Weir/Caldwell thread anyone? Hey, now that all the *other* eligible men on Atlantis are taken, she's gotta have someone, right?

Anyway, I really liked the episode, and there was a shippy moment . . . and the glass breaking . . . and lots of other cool stuff I can't remember. BTW, I think Teyla still called Sheppard by his rank out of respect. Which is a very nice touch, IMO, or else she'd just be the same old sexy alien-slash-love interest requisite on sci-fi.

And there is no way this ep is going to kill the ship . . . the scene was rather reminiscent of 'Broca Divide' . . . which did more to promote that ship than anything else. But I am curious to know why so many people find this particular ship so intolerable. I don't actively ship, myself, but I am perfectly fine with it. Is it the writing, or the characters, or something else that turns people off?

~Sarah

[PsychoPenguin]

I prefer to read that final scene as Teyla expressing relief at escaping Sheppard because I find the idea of them having romantic feelings for each other, however "subdued", to be utterly repulsive and unrealistic.

I don't know about "repulsive and unrealistic," but yeah, I see them more as friends. Regarding shipping, I really don't see it happening between any of the female leads and any of the males, and I don't think the storylines have been properly devloped to have it happen naturally yet. There could be work done later to have it happen, but as it stands now, no, I wouldn't buy it, especially since I think at this point, it would undermine both of the female characters rather than help them.

Teyla, for instance, has been friendly with both Shep and Ronon, but I see these interactions more as being part of a comradely warrior thing, than anything romantic, and I have to say that I'm really coming to enjoy RT's portrayal of these scenes and would hate to see them change. Teyla used to be too much of an "amazon/enigma" to me, but now I'm starting to see some humor, some compassion, some connecting, and it's all involved in a "We're all warriors together; let's see what we can teach each other" sort of vibe. This really makes me excited to see, and I'd hate to see it sacrificed on the altar of shipping. I haven't had a favorite female character since "Firefly's" warrior-woman-torn-between-her-loyalty-to-her husband-and-her-loyalty-to-her-CO, Zoe, but Teyla's starting to become this for me, and if there's any shipping in her future, I hope TPTB hold it off until that evolution is more complete.

Weir, meanwhile, sort of bothers me with how quickly she jumps to defend her people, especially Shep, and I really hope this isn't TPTB's idea of shipping her with him. She doesn't come off as strong to me when she does that. In fact, she often comes off as irrational, since her reactions are usually way out of balance to whatever the opposing character is doing. It makes me wonder if TH just has a problem with playing confrontations, since I think she does fairly well everywhere else. Yet she plays her scenes requiring strength too much like Weir has just gone from "Zero to b****" and that weakens the character for me. Because of this, I think an explanation down the line that she was doing it because she had feelings for Shep or Caldwell would even further weaken the character, and convince me once and for all that this franchise truly *sucks* at writing strong, well-rounded females.

*Misses Zoe, d*** it...*

[Jwizzman]

pretty kick ass episode, that cave was creeppy like hell, I loved it, heheh

[SnoggingPicard]

I posted this on the Shep/Teyla thread as well, but I don't know how many of you go there, so I thought I'd put the same thing here to get your opinions. The first time I watched this episode I was so torn and confused about where the characters were heading that I had to watch it again to reallly sort out what I thought, and this is what I came up with. Another note: though I'm more for Shep/Teyla, I really like the idea of a Weir/Shep and would support it if TPTB decide to go that route. These are just the observations that I made of the characters, so don't get offended if these ideas don't sit well with you. I'd love to hear your responses!

1) The Kiss: When he asks her to call him John, she doesn't really seemed freaked out or scared...more surprised, like it's something she just wasn't expecting. Same with the kiss -- kind of confused and blown away by what just happened than really terrified of him. Sheppard is also concerned for her, and just a little shocked by what happened, but not unpleasantly so. IMO, it is something that he's always wanted to do, and having his inhibitions lessened by the illness, he just got carried away. His lack of control only lasts a moment, but he immediately goes to Teyla -- he even tells Weir and Beckett in the next scene that he feels perfectly fine! And again, Teyla doesn't tell anyone about his odd behavior, probably because she isn't really sure how it's making her feel.

2) Caldwell/Weir: The first scene that these two have together (the chess one), is interesting. I definitely picked up some flirting from them on both ends, and it is clear that he deeply respects her. The next conversation that they have, when she asks him to take over Sheppard's duties, had one of the only clear Shep/Weir moments I could pick up on, when he notices that "You two are pretty close?" There's kind of an awkward silence until she explains that "We've been through a lot together." Hmmm.

3) Weir/Shep alone scenes: First off, Weir is really naive and dumb to go into a room with someone de-evolving into a Wraith/life sucking bug without some sort of protection. I love the woman, but come on! They have a lot of scenes together, and for all she knows, he'll be dead in only a few days...but neither of them even start to say anything remotely shippy about how they feel. Most of the time, she's checking in on how he's feeling and updating him about the progress of the cure. He's mostly telling her that she shouldn't be there because he's dangerous, breaking windows, demanding that she send people to their deaths to help save him, and choking her when she doesn't comply. One of the only really touching scenes I saw between them that made me think "ship!" was when he asks her to have him killed. She kind of stares at him for a minute, and then looks down, too overwhelmed to even say anything. And then he says "It'll be better for both of us", which is very interesting wording. Oh yeah -- when John first comes to visit her in her office with his new security detail she reminds him that "It's only protocol" to which he responds "That's your answer for everything." Well, what is the protocol for getting involved with your colleague? Surely that is against some sort of protocol as well? Just a fascinating line about Weir's priorities and how he sees them.

4) Weir's behavior: When I first watched this, I was like, "Wow, she is so broken up about this!" But then I watched it again and I was struck by how in control she was about everything. Naturally she was upset about what was happening to Sheppard, but she managed to keep a level-head and a pragmatic view of the situation, much more so than the other characters. When John, for example, demands that she send another team to find the eggs, she refuses. Even though she understands that she is basically signing his death warrant by doing so, she says that she cannot risk the lives of more people just to save him, a very difficult, mature thing to say. All of the others (Teyla, Ronon, Beckett, and McKay) want to do everything possible to save Sheppard, even putting their own lives at risk in order to do so. But Weir knows that as leader of the station, she has hard choices to make, and having to choose between one life and another is something she has to face. Another moment along this line is when she goes to see Ronon, Teyla, and McKay to tell them that it is time for them to say goodbye. McKay and Teyla are absolutely devastated, and even though Weir is also upset, she manages to keep on her leader face for the sake of the others, ready to accept what will happen. She is the one who most has a lid on her emotions, and manages to balance her concern for John with what is best for everyone involved.

5) Ronon/Teyla stuff: Definitely some little tidbits of things here, though whether it is friendship or 'shippy is yet to be seen. When he's ribbing McKay, for example, they exchange smiles, and when they leave to find Sheppard, Teyla doesn't seem to want to believe she has to do this. Ronon asks if she's going to be able to go through with it. And again, when Ronon breaks off from their group during the pursuit, she calls after him with a voice filled with...some sort of emotion. It's weird. Go watch it again.

6) Teyla's actions: I wish we got more screentime with her and Shep, but she did a great job in this episode. When Weir deploys the teams to find Sheppard, she pauses as though completely unable to wrap her mind around what she has to do. Loved the little look that she and Weir exchanged, as though each knew what the other was feeling and they were drawing strength from each other. Hope we see more of that later on. When John attacks the other four members of her team when they're pursuing him, he completely ignores her until she calls to him. She is clearly terrified about what she might have to do (listen to her voice!), and instead chooses to frighten him off instead of actually shooting. Finally, when Shep and the team goes to find the eggs, the camera stays on her face a few extra seconds between scenes (when he goes into the cave, and when Ronon picks up Shep and leaves). The looks that she gives tells us everything we need to know about what she is feeling. Brilliant.

7) The Last Scene: So John's apologizing for maybe being out of character...but he didn't go to Weir, whom he tried to choke. So this means that kissing the woman that you have found attractive since Day One is out of character but strangling your boss isn't? Hmmm. Anyway, lots of stuff went on in this one, and I had to watch it several times to sort it all out. First, I definitely got the impression that they were flirting with each other (around the "100% John Sheppard line"). He gives her a heavy, meaningful look before he broaches the subject of what he did, as though he's trying to figure out exactly what he needs to say, but neither of them seems to want to address what happened. When he goes to apologize, he almost seems reluctant, as though he really wasn't sorry for what happened, and he never actually says that kissing her was a mistake or something he regretted. And the way that Teyla cuts him off before he can say anything like that makes me think that she doesn't exactly regret it either. And did anyone else notice this: after she tells him to give the incident no further thought, he says his line "Good...I won't" in a really weird manner. It's almost as if they understand that the action, while surprising, wasn't without a base, and that neither of them wants to admit that they were unhappy about what happened. That line carries a lot of weight and a strange emphasis, like she's invited him to carry on something that he's started...but what that could be, I have no idea. Of course, she still is calling him John, and she seems to like having that familarity. Finally, watch the look that he gets on his face when she walks away -- he watches her go with this little smile, and his eyes are working, almost like he's trying to figure out what just happened between them.

And the sigh. Many people have been interpreting it as complete relief on her part that it is over and that the moment was extremely uncomfortable. I didn't get the feeling that she was uncomfortable with what happened -- they both seemed to get more agitated when they were going to address it, as though they were happier having it lie between them unresolved and untouched. The relief seemed to come from the fact that they would still be able to be friends and that the kiss, though addressed, was not forgotten and not dismissed. Just my opinion, but she seemed a little flushed from their conversation. I just got out of high school, so the look on her face reminded me of those that girls sometimes get right after they talk to their major crush. They play it cool and keep a hold of themselves to his face, but as soon as they turn away, they're blushing from the encounter. Don't know if that makes sense, but that's what I got out of it.

8) Weir/Shep 'ship: Before this episode, I was kind of torn between what 'ship I liked better and which one I saw more of a future for. After watching it for the first time, I was so mixed up I wanted to cry or puke because things seemed to have gotten even more complicated and messed up. Having watched it again (watching for both ships), I think that nearly all of the stuff between Weir/Shep was the understandable reactions of someone's colleague, friend, and protector. I barely saw anything that really smacked of romance between the two of them or out of line/inappropriate concern that bordered on romance. What I saw was one friend that was terrified she was going to lose another and trying to balance what she owed him as a friend with what her position as leader called for her to do. I see a strong, trusting relationship between them, but not one that is destined for romance, though that could easily happen if TPTB decide to go that route. I was looking hard for that spark, I wanted to see it and recognize it...but I couldn't. Sheppard and Weir had many marvelous scenes together, but they were scenes of emotional angst and tried friendship. Teyla and Sheppard had much fewer scenes, but those were based on tension, attraction, unresolved moments, and questions about their future. Still not convinced one way or another about the ships, but "Conversion" didn't put the death seal on any of them -- it just left lots of new doors open.

That should do it for now, but I might add more later.

[TheGreatCatOfRe]

I prefer to read that final scene as Teyla expressing relief at escaping Sheppard because I find the idea of them having romantic feelings for each other, however "subdued", to be utterly repulsive and unrealistic.

I'm not into any shipping either. More interested in the science fiction...but...I didn't think that she went "Whew" at the end because she was relieved. My initial reaction was and I didn't think about it...it was just a feeling AT THAT MOMENT...was "that was hot" (her thoughts not mine). I know...no ship...but that was my first thought. I was really shocked that TPTB put that into the story...not that I disliked it all that much...it showed some extremism on Shep's part. Anywho...it was just an impression at that moment. Time will tell....

[TheGreatCatOfRe]

I definitely didn't think of the "Whew" as how others have been seeing it either. I picked up a little half-smile in there, and the way John was looking at her as she walked away was very interesting. When she called him John, watch his eyes -- it's almost as if he isn't really sure what just happened between them, kind of like the kiss itself. They really don't know what they think about each other, and I don't think that this episode killed the ship, like many on the Shep/Weir thread have been saying. What did you think about the last scene, I'm curious to know.

Snoggin...see my reply to Shadow...what did you think?

Oh wait...Snoggin...saw yr response above. I agree I'm not a shipper either...but that was my impression also. But like I said above only time will tell and they probably won't follow up on it. I don't think TPTB really want to pursue any shipping. I think they like to throw out little tidbits every once in a while for character interaction. I don't think they will ever go full ship on any of the characters.

[Easter Lily]

I really enjoyed this episode. Joe's acting was superb. The one thing I did find that annoyed me to no end was Weir. I did like the little chess scene with her and Caldwell. They were making progress but then it seemed she did a complete 180 and went on a power trip in the next two scenes with him. The whole enemy line was well... Didn't she say almost the exact same thing in Intruder and Condemned? I really don't know what's going on with her. Perhaps, The Long Goodbye will explain it.

I think it's fairly consistent with how she was on 38 minutes... not wanting to face the inevitable or at least to put it off as long as she could. I think that it's Weir all over... the stoic side at least...

[Vixen]

A great episode. TH and JF did an amazing job in this one.

[Easter Lily]

I suppose the man-turns-into-monster-of-the-week scenario is a tried and true formula of science fiction... Okay... hubs calls it a cliche... but in this episode the cliche is used here as a catalyst/backdrop for something far more interesting... which is character interaction. Let's consider this scenario, if someone you know and trust turns into something unsightly and unrecognizable, how would you respond?
As a classic scifi cliche, a lot of focus is often on the One-Who-Is-Being-Altered... the angst, the turmoil... but I am fascinated that in this episode, it is the people around the individual that the focus of attention here. I started watching what I thought was going to be a Sheppard-centric episode but somehow it turned into a Weir episode. The woman was ubiquitous in this episode... well, almost... Weir, IMO, is the one I think that is undergoing an incredible transformation here. From being the hesitant expedition leader of Season 1, she is turning into a force to be reckoned with. The woman is learning to say "no" to Sheppard, asserting herself with the military and maintaining a sense of calm in the midst of chaos. I am really really beginning to appreciate this woman and watching her , as it were, metamorphosizing... This is her moment to shine. To show all the layers to her character... the leader, the friend and the troubleshooter. This is what makes the episode better than what it would've been. There's nothing cheesy about Sheppard's transformation because the people around him take it seriously... we feel their grimness, their fear. All kudos to Martin Gero for drawing that out...

So the big question on everyone's mind is whether a kiss is still a kiss when done under the influence? Well, from where I was sitting, I didn't think so. It was too brusque, violent and bestial to be interpreted as passionate and romantic. Poor Teyla... she looked shell-shocked... Terrified almost.
So then, is the sigh the kind of sigh that causes songs and poems to be written... Well, not from where I was sitting... Seemed too much like relief to me. And the fact that she did it while having her back to him confirms in my mind that it is pretty much how she feels. No need for pretence there.

Footnote: Honestly, that Sheppard... the man cannot look ugly even if he tried... and boy, didn't they try hard here... but those eyes... I found them quite mesmerizing...

[FoolishPleasure]

.

Footnote: Honestly, that Sheppard... the man cannot look ugly even if he tried... and boy, didn't they try hard here... but those eyes... I found them quite mesmerizing...

E.L. - you always say it best. Great analysis of Weir. She has gone from a "so-so" character when the show began, to one of my favs.

As for Sheppard's transformation. With all that makeup and the spooky contacts (which looked very cool), the man still showed emotion - fear, anger, animalistic behavior. Excellent job.

[CorranH96]

Did anyone think that Caldwell trying to find out more about Weir’s relationship with Sheppard that maybe he was trying to find information to possibly blackmail her somehow? Something around the lines of, “She’s only supporting him because of their relationship.” Maybe I’m just too suspicious.

[DANIquinn]

Did anyone think that Caldwell trying to find out more about Weir’s relationship with Sheppard that maybe he was trying to find information to possibly blackmail her somehow? Something around the lines of, “She’s only supporting him because of their relationship.” Maybe I’m just too suspicious.

What I found great about Caldwell's role in this ep, as well as the entire season, is that we're constantly left wondering just what he is up to. And Mitch is doing a wonderful job playing him.