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Thread: Babylon (908)

  1. #81
    Captain Mattathias2.0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by jyh
    Omigod!!! You're right! The guy Mitchell bonded with (I think his name was Jolan) WAS the same guy from Without a Trace, which episode had been on the night before. I kept saying to my son "That guys looks so familiar!" but I couldn't place him.... silly me, I'd only seen him less than 24 hours earlier. Thanks for noticing that, Majorsal. Also, I remember seeing Tony Todd years ago in one or two episodes of Hercules. Even then he played a king or some other head dude. The guy just exudes authority, I guess. And I gotta say, I loved, loved, LOVED watching Mitchell train. Altho it seemed an awful lot to ask of someone who had just been staff-blasted the day before. But I realize the episode spanned a few weeks, so I'm going to go with the asusmption that he at least got to start out slow and work his way up to all that running & fighting!
    Tony Todd played Cecrops and King Gilgamesh on Hercules, and also played a guest role on Xena, in "The Lost Mariner."

  2. #82
    Staff Sergeant akimbo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by IMForeman
    Oh, and people... he's not the Cigarette Smoking Ori!

    He's the Cigarette Smoking Prior. There's a distinction.

    -IMF
    Ooops.

    Let me go fix that.

  3. #83
    Captain IMForeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by akimbo
    Ooops.

    Let me go fix that.
    It's ok... just don't let it happen again.

    -IMF
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    BAD WOLF!!!

  4. #84
    Major General jckfan55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Well it was an ok episode.
    On the positive side: I liked that we got to see more of Mitchell, though mainly all we had reinforced is that he's a determined guy and he has a sense of humor. (The Teal'c imitation was pretty good.) Although it was kind of cliched, I liked the kids watching Mitchell's progress in the training.

    On the down side:
    If anyone *didn't* know that they guy training him would be the one fighting him from the get go, I'd be terribly surprised.
    Almost no team interaction. Daniel didn't get to do much and Sam spent most of the episode off camera doing her science stuff. Nice delivery by AT on the Dr. Lee line.
    Except for one line about not leaving a man behind, there didn't seem to be any urgency about finding Mitchell.
    Dr. Lam--I'm sick of her being cranky with General Landry. they need to either deal her problem or drop it. I'm sure they don't want to try to replace Fraiser--who could?--but she's such a cold fish I'd prefer Dr. Warner if I were SG1.

  5. #85
    Colonel Uber's Avatar
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    Re: Babylon (908)

    Okay, okay. A few others have talked me off the ledge and I'm now reconsidering my original assessment of Babylon.

    As a Cam development story, it was fair...incredibly predictable (I doubt anyone was actually surprised when we learned the guy training Cam would be the one to fight him or that he was related to the man Cam shot) and the drugging idea is as old or older than Star Trek Amok Time...but inasfar as we now know Cam has more depth than a puddle, fine.

    I was happy to see take charge Sam at the beginning but all that does is remind me that the leadership issue is still an issue...not at all resolved in my little world. Sure, if Cam were building a team of newbies, fine...but we're talking Sam, Teal'c and Daniel...and it's personally clear to moi that Sam's the one who should be in charge because she's the one with offworld experience and FCOL, she's earned it. Plus there's that nagging character issue of why would someone who lead a team be willing to return as a 2nd...little things like that.

    All in all, they should never have had the episode The Ties that Bind and should have moved things around a bit to show Babylon earlier...because I think a Cam development story was more important than there little romp through the stargates in that it would have established Cam's character a little more...though I still see him as just a member of the team who's there to "learn from the best"...

    So IMHO, Babylon should have been earlier, The Ties that Bind should NEVER have been aired and this episode should have been a "team working together building chemistry" episode...because right now, like I said earlier, I see no team...just a group of people with matching patches.

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  6. #86
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Okay, one thing that's been bothering me about this episode...

    If the Sodan exist, why didn't they try to contact them while the gu'ald were a threat? And furthermore, if the Jaffa know about a rebel group of Jaffa that successfully defied the gu'ald, why did they EVER think the gu'ald were all-seeing and impossible to defeat?

    A lot of things the Jaffa can do and know seem to contradict other things the Jaffa do. If Bra'tac was able to know that Teal'c was still brainwashed just by grabbing his arm, why didn't he know that guy in Lost City was working for the other side? Stargate needs to work on these little contradictions, they didn't relaly start showing up this blatantly till season seven or so.

    Stargate has given the protagnoists too much technology. The existance of Asgard transporters opens up all the same 'Why don't they just..?' scenarios that have always been a problem in Star Trek.

  7. #87
    Chief Master Sergeant whatswiththehairtealc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    ::awakens from a deep sleep:: wow that was a great nap....uh...i mean episode of Stargate!! seriously what happened. I'm kinda getting bored of this; prior come to a planet, convince local people to woreship the ori. sg 1 finds out and convince them not to. boring!!!! in the begining i was posting in the PRO S9 fourm, but lately i have been dabaling in the this season sucks fourm. COME on lets see some SG1 finds some ancient technology and kicks the heck out of the damn ori. maybe the second part of the season will be better.
    Get YOUR P90 Here!
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  8. #88
    Captain Oreo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    This episode was so terrible it made episodes from season 7-8 look good!!!

  9. #89
    Second Lieutenant GateAngel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Now That's What I'm Talking about
    I voted pretty good. I knew they had to have an episode coming up in which they showcased Mitchell and I was really worried it would be a let down.

    I'm glad my worries were unfounded and I'm glad I finally got an episode where I could feel a connection to Mitchell and really see his character stand out. I admit I did cringe a bit with Star Trek reference Mitchell made because that was waay too much into 'John Crighton' territory. Crighton was always making pop culture references the others on the show didn't get.

    The one thing that stood out for me in this episode (besides the very adorable Tatiania Shanks) was that the writers are really enjoying being able to write physical action scenes for their lead military character again. That having someone in that kind of role that is as able to be athletic as Ben Browder gave them something to work with.

    I like that Mitchell ended up friends with one brother and enemies with the other. It sets up a nice conflict to visit down the road and gives him more real history and background.

    I was also pleased to see that Landry and Lam have found their footing for their characters in this episode, especially Lam who finally projected an image of Carolyn Lam that didn't have any traces of the 'Rommie redux 'that so much of her last few appearances had. Carolyn finally came across as a unique and different person. Very well done on Lexa Doig's part.

    I really liked Daniel's concern for Dr. Lee. I think a real friendship has formed between the two men and I can imagine them spending time in the mess hall talking over cups of coffee. Going off on this or that tangent about some ancient artifact or device.

    Tony Todd was awesome in this. Frankly IMHO I think he would have made a much more imposing and convincing Gerak than Louis Gosset jr is. Was it my imagination or did William B Davis have no lines whatsoever?


    The only thing that bothered me was the opening battle sequence felt a bit forced and contrived. It's like the writers had this great storyline for Mitchell, they just didn't quite know how to get him into the situation they wanted him in. Ok well there is one other thing that bothers me..or rather irritates me for some reason. Sam calling him Cameron. I know they are equal rank and that makes it ok, but it just sounds wrong or off to me for some reason. Funny that Mitchell calling Daniel 'Jackson' doesn't bother me, but Sam calling Mitchell 'Cameron' does.


    Overall very good episode. Nice Mitchell showcase.
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    Last edited by GateAngel; September 10th, 2005 at 11:41 AM. Reason: missing sentence

  10. #90
    First Lieutenant SimilarCadence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaCroix
    The person that played Lord Haidon was Tony Todd, (it's almost like Lord Rayden from Mortal Kombat).......

    Also let me augment my previous post by saying that, when Mitchell was using "Bones" it was almost like their trying to make him into another O'Neill--
    Phasers, We can't call it Enterprise?
    Tony Todd also played Kurn, Worf's brother on ST:TNG......another Star Trek connection.

  11. #91
    Second Lieutenant GateAngel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthespirit
    Okay, one thing that's been bothering me about this episode...

    If the Sodan exist, why didn't they try to contact them while the gu'ald were a threat? And furthermore, if the Jaffa know about a rebel group of Jaffa that successfully defied the gu'ald, why did they EVER think the gu'ald were all-seeing and impossible to defeat?

    A lot of things the Jaffa can do and know seem to contradict other things the Jaffa do. If Bra'tac was able to know that Teal'c was still brainwashed just by grabbing his arm, why didn't he know that guy in Lost City was working for the other side? Stargate needs to work on these little contradictions, they didn't relaly start showing up this blatantly till season seven or so.

    .
    You mean like in one episode the Tok'ra are only a myth that the Jaffa are not allowed to speak of and then they become this huge resistance group that has infiltrated the Goa'uld?

    And what's with Teal'c calling the wounded Jaffa 'the host' when he is talking about the symbiote dying. Teal'c of all people should know the Jaffa are not the hosts.

  12. #92
    Second Lieutenant GateAngel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattathias2.0
    Tony Todd played Cecrops and King Gilgamesh on Hercules, and also played a guest role on Xena, in "The Lost Mariner."
    He also played a love interest for Lexa Doig's character Rommie on Andromeda in the season after Rommie threw former love Gabriel/Remiel (played by Lexa's husband Michael Shanks) out an airlock.

  13. #93
    Captain lord-anubis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    this looks like this is going to be other one of thous eps that a lot of people like and and lot of people don;t like. was i the only one who liked the set they use i thought it was really cool

  14. #94
    Staff Sergeant acce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    I watched this episode, I've seen, worst and i've seen beter!
    As a few people have said: I really thought I was Watching a ''The Last Samurai'' Version of SG1.
    In TLS: Nathan Algreen, fight the Japaneses and barely survive the attack, he is brought back to the camp, healed, and he learn to know them freely in the villages and finally make friends.....
    In SGI Babylon: Mitchell, fight to death with a Sodan, barely survive, the sodan bring him to the village, heal him, he his free to walk around, but a few gards are watching him.... fight and makes a friend....
    The culture of the sodan looked like the ''the last samurai'' japaneses!

    I think that the producers should hire better Writers! Writers how know how to Imagin a story that haven't been told yet....

    And I have to say that Mitchell is not enough serious for a Leading Colonel of the best SG unit....

    Season 9 , as i have already said, is really not getting better...Too much character left.... The soul of SG1 is not the same, and I have to admit, i don't really like it....

    I Hope that they will stop to season 9, because it getting a real joke....
    I doubt, i'll buy season 9 in DVD, i'll stop to season 8...
    All good things must come to an end...
    Canada Rule!!!

  15. #95
    Lieutenant Colonel AGateFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by lord-anubis
    this looks like this is going to be other one of thous eps that a lot of people like and and lot of people don;t like. was i the only one who liked the set they use i thought it was really cool
    The set was awesome. The guest stars were quite good and the extras (kids and others) were all pretty cool too.
    Joseph Mallozzi -"In the meantime, I'm into season 5 of OZ (where the show takes an unfortunate hairpin turn into "the not so wonderful world of fantasy")"

    ^^^ Kinda sounds like seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1 to me. Thor, ya got Aspirin?

    AGateFan has officially Gone Fishin (with Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) and is hoping Atlantis does not take that same hairpin turn.

  16. #96
    First Lieutenant golfbooy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Babylon. Hmm.

    Well, any episode that focused on Mitchell was sorely needed. That said, I'm getting that Jonas vibe all over again. What I mean is, I'm afraid that no matter how hard Ben Browder tries, no matter how much humor and banter they write for him, Mitchell is never gonna fit (either with the show or the team) the way Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c do. Sure, this episode focused on Mitchell, but it also focused on his separation from them. And the result was uncomfortable.

    To begin, the teaser where Mitchell is captured seems only to illustrate the unsettled nature of the team. There is a forced nature to his joking with Teal'c and an unseemly petulence to his ribbing of the Jaffa intel. Add Daniel's comment about how they've discovered some pretty incredible stuff in similar circumstances and Carter's disdainful look as she walks past Cam, and Mitchell's mocking of that which he so wanted to join (not lead) is curious. Then there's the whole fire-fight bit, with Mitchell getting captured. It's not at all clear who is in command before this event, but during it Carter certainly does what you'd expect the team leader to do. Namely, she calls for back up and secures the team's position. Mitchell covering for the rest of SG-1 was a plot convenience, as there was no reason for him to not fall back with the rest. Whatever, that's how stories are made and he needed to be alone in this one.

    The following scene, featuring the discovery of the teleportation device and SG-1's only time together in the whole episode, illustrates the comfort that was missing in the teaser. Sam's running the search, Daniel's translating Ancient writing, and Teal'c's commenting on the Sodan's disappearance is so seemless that you can't help but feel that the scene is over way too soon. It's SG-1 doing what they've always done, and I wanted more. Alas, twas not to be. Further, the search for Cam (or lack thereof) came across as par for the course. I didn't get any sense of desperation or even concern out of Daniel, Teal'c, or Sam beyond ordinary compassion for a fellow soldier. Certainly in the past there has been greater urgency expressed in similar circumstances. Throw in the lack of any sort of team reunion at the end of the episode and Mitchell is apparently just one of the team to them, nothing more.

    That said, Mitchell finally gets something of his own this week. I did enjoy the more assertive effort from Ben Browder, finally giving Cameron some definition and personality. And finally something has happened to the character, something that makes his appearance in the story germaine.

    Teal'c and Daniel got some pedestrian interrogation and Jaffa dialog, but not much more. Their dealings with Volnek came across as so routine that even they were bored by them.

    Undoubtedly a result of Amanda Tapping's pregnancy, any complaint about Carter's lack of presence in the episode is invalid. She's great when she's there, but her absence only feeds into the lack of concern for Cam.

    Landry and Lam continue to tapdance around their inevitable reconciliation. And the drop-in about the International Oversight Committee is nice continuity, foreshadowing next week's troubles.

    In the end, I appreciate the effort from all parties. The Sodan have been introduced with the completeness Stargate used so effectively in its earlier years. They are a fully fleshed out society, one that will undoubtedly return in multiple future episodes. And the production department deserves special mention for constructing such an elaborate locale for the Sodan. Gone are the few tents and draped pieces of cloth from the Emancipation days. Sure, that was a long time ago, but it's still nice to see SG-1 get (and use) the budget it deserves. Kudos on William B. Davis. His utterence of not a single line coupled with his decrepit appearance will make future action on his part all the more impressive. But I can't help but come away feeling that Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c are SG-1. Mitchell's just the guy walking around with them. All I'm saying is, I'm getting that Jonas vibe all over again.

    Bring on Prototype and The Fourth Horseman.

  17. #97
    Second Lieutenant jyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_Dark
    IMO the writers have made Mitchell way too flippant and sarcastic. O'Neill had the sarcasm down pat and only used it when it was called for, to good effect. Mitchell on the other hand seems to try and make a joke about everything, and most of the time just falls flat :|

    See, I feel just the opposite. I think O'Neill used his sarcasm way too often--kinda diluted its effectiveness, for me. (Sorta like Hawkeye Pierce, on M*A*S*H... he snarked so often it just got to be annoying and distracting.) Plus I think O'Neill was too free w/ his snark, including being snarky w/ General Hammond. I know they both liked & respected each other, but it gave the impression Air Force personnel can speak to their superiors like that any time they like, which of course isn't true.

    Also, I had previously question Carter calling to him on the radio as "Cameron," and someone pointed out that Carter & Mitchell are the same rank. That's true, and I know they've interacted enough that they probably feel comfortable enough referring to each other by first name, so I acknowledge a "point well-taken" on that issue. Thanks to the poster who brought it up.

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oreo
    This episode was so terrible it made episodes from season 7-8 look good!!!
    Funny one - gave me a good chuckle.

    I have to say that I have not read all of the posts here so apologies in advance if I repeat something but I have only a few minutes and want to get some thoughts down:

    taped it as I was out - watched it last night. Sorry but boring does not describe what I felt. I would leave the room and forget the show was on, go back in see it on the screen, rewind to see what I missed and then full forward through the very same thing I had just missed making me realize I really did not miss anything. (I can say with pride that I only ended up wasting a grand total of about 15-20 minutes watching and full forwarding this as I managed to accomplish quite a few things while I was out of the room.)

    Mitchell: what is he doing part of THIS SG1 team? He does not cut it for me and I can gather no interest in or, care about, the character. I tell you if I was Teal'c I would have slapped him one while they were in the forest looking for the Sodan. When Mitchell got caught-out I thought -- good for the Sodan -- try to show up Teal'c and crack on him like that and see what you get. Next time Mitchell better keep his smart-mouth shut and listen. Goodness gracious, where is Jack O'Neill when you need a good, solid, soldier that respects his teammates and knows and understands that they know way more than you do when it comes to certain things . . . . That whole scene just made me cringe, then it made me mad, then it made me once again think and ask again for some reminder as to why Mitchell is here (besides hero worship) and what, if anything, he brings to the team that they did not already have when it was Sam, Daniel and Teal'c.

    The scene where the shooting started - another one where I ask myself why, regarding Mitchell, what the heck IS his purpose? Really, I mean no offense to BB, but Mitchell is horrible, IMO. He is benign, he is bland, he has nothing to offer that makes me want to learn or know more, or care, he insults his teammates, IMO, gets a smart mouth about it and then gets himself captured - uuuggghhhh!

    What is the story with Mitchell always in peril - it is not lending any credence to the argument that he should be on THIS SG1. Do TPTB honestly think that I will have any buy-in that this guy is really going to be killed or horribly hurt (bben there done that anyway) -- please -- his being in peril, or sick, or hurt is meaningless due to the fact there is absolutely no suspense in it and absolutely no doubt that nothing bad will happen to him. I cannot get invested in this guy. (At this point with all of the talk about vala possibly coming on for S10 and whether AT will come back or not I would believe it more if they put Carter in peril that she might not make it back but Mitchell - no way, ergo, who cares.) First, there has been so little development to Micthell I have absolutely nothing invested in the character to care and second we all know nothing WILL happen to him, for me there's no investement in the character in peril either way. I will say that BB does hurt and peril pretty well though, but I do not buy him as a soldier.

    As for command, the whole begininning scene just reinforced for me that he does not belong on THIS SG1 never mind in command of it, if he even is. Carter is by far a superior officer, leader, soldier from what I have seen of Mitchell.

    Lam - again, sorry cannot get invested in her - she is a brat and she is unprofessional. I cannot believe that at a military institution they would portray the CMO, if that is what she is, in such an unprofessional manner, regardless of whether she is a civilian or not. The little snotty scene with Landry (which IMO, was a waste because all it provided was a sense that these two do not get along, which we already knew, so TPTB have their plot device for whatever personal crap they are planning between them) just goes to prove to me that the regs are there for a reason, the fact that he is her father does NOT make it approrpiate for her to speak to him in such a manner on base, where he is in fact in command, about an alien warrior whose race has captured one of the SGC soldiers -- that scene, IMO, belittled what was going on around them. I say to Dr. Lam "grow up and stop making this about you". I find it incredible that TPTB have seen their way clear to *******ize the CMO position now too. I cannot believe that the AF oversight would let this occur but then again the show has really gone downhill and away from being anywhere near believable as it was in past years when it comes to the AF persona in general, just as long as they get their silly plot devices in. That Lam/Landry scene was ridiculous and she should have been reprimanded, instead Landry just looked cowed.

    Next, what a waste of the CSM from X-Files I love this guy, he can be such an evil genius -- I hope if they have him around again they do something with him. In one of his posts on the AJM thread JMallozzi said something about cast and guest stars being expensive, well what a waste of money that turned out to be, even if it is a set-up for something this guy will do in the future it was a waste of time and money - give the guy something, anything, to do for crying out loud!

    Wow - I just read this back and it seems I really hated this ep - I thought I just disliked it - too bad. Once again the show's premise had potential - it did not workout IMO. Many of you will say why do you still watch; well a few things - I do not watch regularly anymore, skipped 3 of the first 5 altogether and had to turn off the other 2 from disgust. Watched the past 3 but haven't been able to get invested - taped 2 of them since I was out and full forwarded through much of those as well. In past years I would have made an effort to be home. If I was out I would tape and never miss an ep, and I never full forwarded through, or skipped, entire episodes, not until the middle of S7 when, IMO, the show started it's downhill run and since then it is just picking up speed and has now careened out of control as it nears the bottom. I have 1-6 on DVD, won't spend another dime on 7, 8 or 9. I am moving away from this show since I do feel it has lost quality, stature, respect, etc. It is now spoken about as more of a joke, and too many of the reviews yak about the humour and how funny it is, etc. Well I always thought Stargate SG1 was a drama - and it used to be. It was well written, full of suspense, action, friendship, bonding, humour when appropriate, wonderful secondary characters that had wonderful relationships with the 4 main characters and, above all, it was a team where the members all complimented one another with the qualities they brought to the team - now it is a rag tag group that I don't recognize and get no team feeling from, it is a comedy wannabe, a caricature of it's former self (visions of that movie Space Balls dance in my head when I think of Stargate now).

    I watch now when I can or when it at least sounds like it might be a decent episode that won't be a waste of my time to see IF TPTB can bring back the magic - so far the answer, for me, is no. Another big difference, before S7 the eps all sounded great and you could not wait to watch, now it's gee it sounds like it could be okay maybe it won't be a waste of my time and when it is not a waste of time it garners an okay or it was decent). Believe it or not, I still do have a shred of hope that they will recapture the real SG1 and go back to the "roots" of the show. Roots, ha, some of TPTB have used that term rather loosely in their interviews this year, I see no "roots" just "root-rot". Bows head in disappointment that this is yet another ep that failed to recapture the essence of SG1 . . . and wonders how many more will grab me with the "maybe it won't be a waste of my time" thought.

  19. #99

    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    I must say I found this one boring, not as bad as last weeks but still flat .
    Mitchell just doesn't cut it,I hated the silly speeded up fight scenes and the switch between the actors and the stunt men was very badly done.
    I want more team interaction not Mitchell on one planet, Carter on another and Teal's and Daniel on Earth.
    Let Mitchell interact with the rest of SG1 and he might just grow on people.

  20. #100
    Airman Jwizzman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    this was a pretty bad episode, I did like the michel-movie-joke but still...pretty bad ep imo

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