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Thread: Babylon (908)

  1. #41
    Staff Sergeant jree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well that episode was uneventful

    I liked this episode. The beginning of the show had a some team aspects to it and I want more of that. Ben/Mitchell and Michael/Daniel are starting to develop some good comedic timing and same goes for Ben/Mitchell and Chris/Teal'c. Amanda/Sam looks like she's smiling through the entire interaction between the three. More of that please. Is Carter supposed to call Mitchell "Cameron?" So the Ori are anhilating planets full of Jaffa huh? Mitchell can both fight and take a beating. He got back to the SGC without getting rescued by SG-1 which is different. I like the Sodan more than Gerak and the Free Jaffa. The Sodan remind me of Teal'c before he was fully exposed to Earth culture (w/o hair Teal'c) new and different but cool in his own way, imho.

  2. #42
    Second Lieutenant jyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler Enroute1
    And what happens to the brother who faked his death now that his own brother returns from SGC? I didn't hear him promise to, well, anything; keep mumm on his brother's deceit (Cain and Abel, anyone)? And won't he need tretonin? Two handsome kinsmen.
    Good point about the tretonin. I don't have concerns about the "other brother" keeping the secret about Mitchell still being alive (I choose to go with the 'blood is thicker than water' theory), but what WILL he do about the tretonin? How will he explain where he's been and what happened to him, and how well will that be accepted? For a supposedly 'advanced' or 'civilized' group of people (of varying races, I might add), they sure had some draconian views on people who visit their planet. Talk about shoot first and ask questions later!!

  3. #43
    Staff Sergeant Mongo's Girl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well that episode was uneventful

    Quote Originally Posted by the fifth man
    While I may not be among the majority, I thought this was a pretty good episode. Mitchell finally really got involved, getting some serious action. I mean, come on, groundbreaking events aren't supposed to happen every damn week. Little things build upon each other to form something big. The introduction of the Sodan may be one of those "little things". Some of you I think are expecting way too much. And even if you got it, others would find something to complain about. This season is far from over, and I just hope by its end, all of us, well, most of us anyway (some can never be pleased), will have seen enough things we like.
    I agree. Gotta love Cam's stubborn determination to beat the odds.

    I thought the guest stars did a great job, and I hope to see more of the Sodan very soon.

    Loved the "Bones" comment.

  4. #44
    General the fifth man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well that episode was uneventful

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo's Girl
    Loved the "Bones" comment.
    Same here. Expect more of that kind of stuff. It just seems to be BB's style.

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  5. #45
    Lieutenant Colonel AGateFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well that episode was uneventful

    Quote Originally Posted by the fifth man
    Same here. Expect more of that kind of stuff. It just seems to be BB's style.
    I am 99% sure that is not a BB adlib as it appeared to be in reference to the Star Trek ep where Kirk had to fight Spock and Dr Mcoy (bones) druged Kirk to make him look like he died. So I guess Mitchell is a Star Trek Fan Boy and came up with the plan. Which means he too knew that the 2 sodan were brothers, or at least suspected it and got it confirmed "off screen".
    Joseph Mallozzi -"In the meantime, I'm into season 5 of OZ (where the show takes an unfortunate hairpin turn into "the not so wonderful world of fantasy")"

    ^^^ Kinda sounds like seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1 to me. Thor, ya got Aspirin?

    AGateFan has officially Gone Fishin (with Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) and is hoping Atlantis does not take that same hairpin turn.

  6. #46
    Captain Traveler Enroute1's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by jyh
    Good point about the tretonin. I don't have concerns about the "other brother" keeping the secret about Mitchell still being alive (I choose to go with the 'blood is thicker than water' theory), but what WILL he do about the tretonin? How will he explain where he's been and what happened to him, and how well will that be accepted? For a supposedly 'advanced' or 'civilized' group of people (of varying races, I might add), they sure had some draconian views on people who visit their planet. Talk about shoot first and ask questions later!!
    Agreed: with the Ori prancing about and the changes they bring, the brother with the tretonin will have to be really careful, or be considered a reason to obliterate the Sodan. Still think both brothers will somehow have to stand on opposite sides of the coming conflict (maybe command the symbiote be taken from one for the other). Drama, and all that.

    And true, the "traditions" of the jaffa seem to be the same as the old goau'ld. Not only shoot first, but shoot to kill.

    I originally saw the Sodan who captured Mitchell as afrocentric, then they went into the village and they were clearly a combo of asian as well. I can go with that. Early goa'uld were pretty vain about looks; these guys were descended from some cuties, apparently. Also the thing about their being an elite guard of some sort and the mix of warriors from Africa and Asia seemed to be a successful one, IMO, anyway.

    Just sayin.
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  7. #47
    Colonel FoolishPleasure's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    I enjoyed the episode, though I liked the Mitchell scenes the best. About time Browder got to DO something!

    Teal'c had more to do as well - I think he has been short-changed this season.

    Some nit-picks:

    Why did SGC keep interrogating the Sodan? Why didn't they take him back to the planet and use him as leverage in getting Mitchell back?

    Who the heck were those Asian kids they kept focusing on? At first I thought it was just a cute scene of the kids laughing at Mitchell's training antics, but they were shown over and over. My husband thought they might turn out to be Ancients among the Sodan, but that didn't pan out.

    Why bring in the cig-dude from X-Files and have him do NOTHING? He never even spoke. Unless he is coming back????

    The door seems to be open to revisit the Sodan people and they seem like they could be very interesting in the future. *crossing fingers*

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  8. #48

    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Hello. Long time lurker, first time poster.

    Surprised by the negativity to this episode, I enjoyed it. Jaffa storyline was incredibly dull and bleak this season and needed something to pick it up. Introducing a new "faction" of legendary free Jaffa with their Ethics/Codes is exactly what was needed, IMHO. In previous seasons we had the same dynamic between the Goauld and Tok'ra and it worked well, so why not follow that same path with the evolved Free Jaffa storline?

    Only things I disliked were minor...

    1) Mitchell's impersonation of Teal'C, thought it was a little early for that type of dynamic. Teal'C and Mitchell have, however spent much time together this season, and perhaps this is showing a growing bond between the two characters.

    2) Mitchell with the backwards hat, firing P-90 from the hip. Only excuse I can give to justify this is the fact that the guy was, until recently, a fighter pilot. Maybe this is the writers trying to show him "evolve" from no combat skills to later possessing them.

    3) Scene with military all over the jungle after the Sodan engagement... many soldiers had on green cammo with desert (light brown) cammo boots. What was up with this?

    This was one of the better episodes of the season so far in my book. I think this is a great story arc that will be further explored, and eventually solve the Gerak/Free Jaffa problems that exist today once they meld the Sodan into the Free Jaffa.

  9. #49
    General majorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    i liked it! i REALLY like mitchell/ben (my admiration of him has been growing since avalon 1), so an entire ep centered on him really worked for me. and it really worked because after avalon 1, he was pushed to the background. he *finally* had something to grab onto and make his own.

    all the guest stars were great tonight. always a fan of tony todd (head sodan guy), and i liked the fighter mitchell trained with (i think this was the actor on 'without a trace' last night). the villiage looked super too, with details and such.

    i missed more sam, but i loved getting to know mitchell (again).

    my one quibble with this ep is lam. i don't like her disrespectful attitude with landry. from what i've been told over time, one of the reasons why sam and jack couldn't be together 'and' serve together was because of bias. well, lam is landry's daughter, and as far as i can see, he's letting her talk to him like he'd not let another sgc member. i don't care if lam isn't military, landry's still her boss and she should show respect. i wanted landry to say to her, 'either do what i say 'without' an attitude, or get out'. and stick to it. she needs a serious attitude adjustment.

    ben is great as mitchell. he's charismatic and a good actor (and good looking). i really enjoyed this ep and i'm looking forward to knowing mitchell even more.

    this ep was a winner to me!

    (needed more sam, though)



    sally
    Last edited by majorsal; September 9th, 2005 at 10:24 PM. Reason: wrote wrong name of specific show
    sally


  10. #50
    First Lieutenant Dana_Jeanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaCroix
    To qoute O'Neill :
    "This is just a new game brought to you by our good friend--

    The Last Samurai
    Fair Game
    A Hundred Days
    Paradise Lost

    I thought the point of this season was to be new and fresh, so far it hasn't.
    You forgot Star Trek and the episode "Amock Time."

    I'm really tired of all these 'homages'. How about a little originality for a change?

    Dana Jeanne

  11. #51
    Staff Sergeant
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    I would rate this a poor episode, for all the previously stated reasons. However I was very impressed with the Stargate Atlantis episode. Really good team dynamics, interesting solution to the problem, and some interesting personal dynamics. Nice make-up job too!

  12. #52

  13. #53
    General majorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well that episode was uneventful

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo's Girl
    I agree. Gotta love Cam's stubborn determination to beat the odds.
    we really haven't had that much info to 'know' mitchell yet except for his extreme determination to prevail. and i *love* that! his compitition is himself.

    i always know when i'm liking a character, when someone's beating on him and i yell out 'leave him alone!'.


    sally
    sally


  14. #54
    Chief Master Sergeant Amakusa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana_Jeanne
    I'm really tired of all these 'homages'. How about a little originality for a change?
    Maybe you should look back at Stargate SG-1 from the beginning, and look how 'original' it was. Beings with high technology posing as gods. Pyramid-builders being extra-terrestials. Using a lightning rod to power a device in sore need of lightning-bolt power. Even the Asgard are rip-offs of the Roswell Greys.

    What you ought to understand that there is NOTHING original. The only thing that matters is execution. Anyone that goes out to look for things to nit are NEVER going to enjoy the show for what it is.
    I will rule the world... and find that truly good cup of coffee.

  15. #55
    Major
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    There are two ways to rate an episode--on its own and within context of the series.

    In the context of the series, this was a crucial episode. So far, we've had little character development for Mtichell. This episode provided that.

    I see others sniping on the lack of focus on "team". Well, give that we had one key team member (Mitchell) with very little character background, that's never going to be established without an episode like "Babylon".

    On its own, I'm biased. I come Farscape fandom and I like Browder. He demonstrated his considerable physical acting skills in this episode.

    The ending was totally predictable to anyone who saw Star Trek, though.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amakusa
    Maybe you should look back at Stargate SG-1 from the beginning, and look how 'original' it was.
    But in recent years, these "homages" have gotten more explicit to the point where characters now snidely remark about them. It's that kind of self-referentiality that drags the show down. The earlier seasons had their share of stock situations (rapid aging virus, AWOL military officer thinks he's God, de-evolution, android duplicates) but the writers never had the characters explicitly mock the situation the way Mitchell did tonight. It's difficult to take the show seriously when the writers are admitting outright that they're out of ideas.
    "There is simply no other choice than this: either to abstain from interference in the free play of the market, or to delegate the entire management of production and distribution to the government. Either capitalism or socialism: there exists no middle way."
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  17. #57
    Brigadier General LoneStar1836's Avatar
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Nice work by Ben Browder. Thatís about as much praise as I can muster for this episode other than it finally gave his character a little more substantial development.

    Why the heck was Tealíc not armed with his staff weapon? Leave the SAW at home next time. It detracts from who he is. Just kind of makes him another ďhumanĒ so to speak. Tealíc has always carried his staff weapon except on certain occasions. Why the change? Hmm...maybe that's just me but I didn't like it.
    IMO always implied.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Does it tell you all you need to know about my impression of this one, if I say that 10 minutes in I started reading the comments in this thread, one ear cocked on the soundtrack for Daniel, Sam or Teal'c to show up?

    Mitchell...sorry, but he's just not doing it for me. It's not BB's fault, but increasingly I'm finding the character just...bland. The dialogue in the scripts has hardly been scintillating and it shows up especially in the teaser of this episode, where I found the 'banter' weak and pretty lame.

    I still can't get a handle on who the heck is in charge of SG1 - again, Carter seemed much more competent and on the ball than Mitchell during the firefight.

    I don't usually enjoy Jaffa episodes, so that's undoubtedly colouring my boredom threshold for this one, but even so...it was pretty unoriginal and uninspired, I thought.

    I agree with those who are hankering after some team. And I'm afraid to say that my fears for the rest of the season seem to be panning out. That it was only Vala, the wonderful dialogue written for her, and her relationship/sparring with Daniel that made the first few episodes good for me. I had begun to suspect that once she was gone, the show would fall flat, and that seems to be a prediction that's turning out true. I'd hoped that the team element would get me past that, but I'm getting no sense of team from these guys and no sign of the banter/caring/ etc, as others have said.

    I did enjoy seeing Carter in full soldier mode in the teaser. I always enjoy seeing that and she does it very well. If she's not in charge of SG1, she should be. I have the distinct feeling that with Mitchell looking out for them either he or they will be dead in five minutes flat. Heroically staying behind to let the rest of your team escape is all very well, but Jack would have managed to fire back at those Jaffa while using the best cover he could find. Not standing up in full view of those shooting back at you, nonchalently shooting from the hip. That's the response to an attack of a TV character, not a soldier. Which is disappointing, since SG has always made such an effort to produce the latter, not the former. One of the reasons the show was always a cut above the other SF shows I enjoyed for me.

    More and more, the show seems to have been relegated to just one more show I watch. Which saddens me. It used to be something special. Now, most of the elements which made it so for me have been lost. The strong character relationship most of all. All character relationship seems to have been sacrificed in favour of action adventure. I don't mind the latter, but a balance with some scenes showing that these characters like each other would be very welcome about now.

    Ah well...haven't heard any Sam, Daniel or Teal'c since I've been writing this...maybe I can fast forward to that line from Walter....

    Hoping for an injection of team/character relationship at some point in this season. But I have to say that when there was a possibility that the search for Mitchell would be called off...I really didn't care either way whether we got him back or not. As I say, I don't dislike him. And I'd really like to like him. But for now...he just bores me.

    Albion
    Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

    Richard Dean Anderson

  19. #59

    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Ah, gee, I liked it but I am partial to Ben. I thought he was very good. Since I don't know how to carry a rifle, I can't comment on whether or not he did it right.

    Yeah, we weren't too thrilled about the team splitting up--and didn't THEY leave a man behind? And I wondered why no one went thru the Gate to look for him again. Maybe I missed something.

    Still, I liked it quite a bit. I thought even less happened in Ex Deus Machina and there was a lot more speecifying going on in that episode. At least there was some fighting and some Mitchell in this one. That's always worth it.

    I liked the way Mitchell sort of teased Teal'c--I do think these guys have spent enough time hanging out that it was Mitchell's way of needling the big guy; I doubt Teal'c would have cared. I also loved Mitchell saying something about "old enemies and new allies" which is straight off the SG1 season 9 promos, as well as the warrior guy telling Mitchell that he can't fight and talk at the same time, and he doesn't seem to have learned that lesson.

    yeah, predictable, but that's ok. Ex Deus Machina was too--I watched it with friends who've watched some season 9 and no other SG1 and they figured out a lot of the plot before it happened.
    Last edited by esoap524; September 10th, 2005 at 01:48 AM.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Babylon (908)

    Quote Originally Posted by Albion
    snip, snip.

    I did enjoy seeing Carter in full soldier mode in the teaser. I always enjoy seeing that and she does it very well. If she's not in charge of SG1, she should be. I have the distinct feeling that with Mitchell looking out for them either he or they will be dead in five minutes flat. Heroically staying behind to let the rest of your team escape is all very well, but Jack would have managed to fire back at those Jaffa while using the best cover he could find. Not standing up in full view of those shooting back at you, nonchalently shooting from the hip. That's the response to an attack of a TV character, not a soldier. Which is disappointing, since SG has always made such an effort to produce the latter, not the former. One of the reasons the show was always a cut above the other SF shows I enjoyed for me.

    More and more, the show seems to have been relegated to just one more show I watch. Which saddens me. It used to be something special. Now, most of the elements which made it so for me have been lost. The strong character relationship most of all. All character relationship seems to have been sacrificed in favour of action adventure. I don't mind the latter, but a balance with some scenes showing that these characters like each other would be very welcome about now. Albion
    Ding - that's the sound of the hammer hitting the nail on the head. I agree with the above 100%. The shoot from the hip stuff is just another aspect of why this character should NOT be in charge of THIS SG1 team (if he even is).

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