Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 30 of 30
  1. #21
    First Lieutenant Three PhDs's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Central Scotland
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Quote Originally Posted by smartquin
    Ok, this is my theory for a ZPM.

    The planck mass is somewhere around 2.176 45 x 10-8 kg. This can be said to be the most matter you can put into a quantum unit of space, which is (1.616 24 x 10-35 m )^3. That is pretty dense, so there must be VERY efficient inertial dampeners in the ZPM.
    Why? I don't get the link between density and the need for inertial dampeners.

    now, even if there is on 10 cm^3 of 'artificial universe' to extract energy from, that would give (according to E=mc^2) 4.6331093218608832677775510310323 x 10^110 Joules of energy... which is A LOT of turkey sandwiches!!!!

    At least that is what I think, anyone else get a different answer, I rushed it?
    This... I don't know. You've made the calculation for the assumed density, but it's a mysterious unnamed material.

    Now with added lesbians.

  2. #22
    Chief Master Sergeant smartquin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2005
    Location
    "City of Lights"
    Posts
    179

    Default Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Quote Originally Posted by Three PhDs
    Why? I don't get the link between density and the need for inertial dampeners.
    Well, its not so much the density, but just the sheer amount of matter. Since there is such a great mass inside the ZPM (for E=mc^2), it has to be counteracted some how. On the show, the ZPM looks like it only weighs a kilo or 2, but if it converts all possible space inside of it into matter for energy conversion, it would get VERY heavy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Three PhDs
    This... I don't know. You've made the calculation for the assumed density, but it's a mysterious unnamed material.
    I've just worked out if you had this 'region of subspace time' that can be turned 100% efficiently into energy, it should give these results. It does break the rules of thermodynamics and quantum theory (totally smashes them to oblivion), but hey, its in the show, it has to be real

  3. #23
    Airman Ryuu's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Well, all of you please stop talking about singularities all the time. Singularity is a mathematical term. It is a point where function goes to infinity. When you talk only about "singularity" it can be almost anything. There is also sexy term quantum singularity invented by sci-fi writers (I believe) but it's not right since black holes don't have (almost) anything to do with quantum mechanics. Gravitational or even general relativistic singularity is more appropriate. There are even two singularities per black hole if I remember correctly. One is located in its center and the second one is the whole event horizon itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by !Dorentus!
    Basically (I think), its so dense and has so much mass that it's gravity sucks light and everything else into it just like a blackhole, so obviously it is very heavy.
    Black holes don't need to be extremely dense nor massive. There can be even black hole with mass of 1 kg, but it will be extremely short-lived. Also while black hole's size increases with increase of mass, it's density decreases. For example black hole of the size of our solar system would have the same density as water.
    Sorry for my bad english. I'm just a little post-communist building nuclear warheads in backyard.

  4. #24
    Second Lieutenant lethalfang's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    273

    Lightbulb Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Quote Originally Posted by smartquin
    Not exactly... a ZPM is suppose to get energy from a vaccuum. If remove all particles from a region of space, and lower the temperature to absolute zero (ie zero point) energy is still observed via matter-antimatter pairs which exist for a split second and then anihilate each other. This is also refered to as quantum fluctuations. The problem is storing the said anti-matter, its pretty much impossible at the moment, since the particles interact with other matter very quickly.
    First of all, absolute zero temperature is physically and theoratically unattainable.
    Secondly, fluctuation cannot be used to do work.
    It is impossible to get work out of the so-called zero point energy. It's merely one of the stargate non-science thingies.
    "Thermodynamics is the only physical theory of universal content which, within the framework of the applicability of its basic concepts, I am convinced will never be overthrown." — Albert Einstein

  5. #25
    Second Lieutenant lethalfang's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    273

    Lightbulb Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Quote Originally Posted by Auralis
    It does work with a ZPM because the ZPM contains its own space-time continum outside of our own. That was the whole plot point of the SGa Trinity episode that a ZPM works because its outside our own SPace time and the trinity device does not work because it draws on our own space time vacuum energie.
    This is incorrect.
    Thermodynamically speaking, if you can find a way, to extract energy from our universe is possible.

    To use a simple analogy, our atmosphere has 1 atm of constant pressure. It's the analogous of "zero point energy" in our environment. This pressure cannot be used to do work because it is everywhere.
    In order to use this pressure to do work, you must create a pressure difference. Clearly, there are two ways to do it.
    1) To create a container with pressure higher than 1 atm. The container will do work by expanding.
    2) To create a container with pressure *lower* than 1 atm. In this case, our environment will do work on the container, and it is possible in this case to extract work from our environment.

    Likewise, in order to extract energy from anything, you must create a difference in energy.
    To use zero point energy to do work is non-sense because you cannot create a lower energy level, hence you cannot create a difference in energy level, therefore it cannot do work.

    The "trinity" device is analogous to the 2nd case. To create a space/region of very low energy, so work can be extracted from our universe thru the flow of energy into this region. This is the only way it can work.
    "Thermodynamics is the only physical theory of universal content which, within the framework of the applicability of its basic concepts, I am convinced will never be overthrown." — Albert Einstein

  6. #26
    Chief Master Sergeant smartquin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2005
    Location
    "City of Lights"
    Posts
    179

    Default Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Quote Originally Posted by lethalfang
    First of all, absolute zero temperature is physically and theoratically unattainable.
    Secondly, fluctuation cannot be used to do work.
    It is impossible to get work out of the so-called zero point energy. It's merely one of the stargate non-science thingies.
    Well, your sort of correct. You see, scientists have been able to lower temperatures to lower than 3 degrees kelvin in the lab, and have observed the fluctuations that they say can only be attributed to ZPE. So your right, absolute zero isnt attainable with the tech we hav atm. Same with using the said fluctuations to do work, we simply don't know how to harness it.

    Google ZPE, you'll find some good sources of info, hardly any with equations or anything scientific tho

  7. #27
    Second Lieutenant lethalfang's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    273

    Lightbulb Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Quote Originally Posted by smartquin
    Well, your sort of correct. You see, scientists have been able to lower temperatures to lower than 3 degrees kelvin in the lab, and have observed the fluctuations that they say can only be attributed to ZPE. So your right, absolute zero isnt attainable with the tech we hav atm. Same with using the said fluctuations to do work, we simply don't know how to harness it.

    Google ZPE, you'll find some good sources of info, hardly any with equations or anything scientific tho
    I know thermodynamics and statistical mechanics quite well.
    I can tell you right now that majority of "zero point energy" stuff on the internet is just plain wrong.
    People heard the phrase "zero point energy," and they think it's a really cool name, and imagination took over. The problem is most of them did not look deep enough to understand what it really is.
    "Thermodynamics is the only physical theory of universal content which, within the framework of the applicability of its basic concepts, I am convinced will never be overthrown." — Albert Einstein

  8. #28
    Chief Master Sergeant smartquin's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2005
    Location
    "City of Lights"
    Posts
    179

    Default Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Quote Originally Posted by lethalfang
    I know thermodynamics and statistical mechanics quite well.
    I can tell you right now that majority of "zero point energy" stuff on the internet is just plain wrong.
    People heard the phrase "zero point energy," and they think it's a really cool name, and imagination took over. The problem is most of them did not look deep enough to understand what it really is.
    True, a random conglomeration of energy just sitting there, with no way of using it for anything useful.

    Just to clarify, the Casimir effect isnt ZPE is it? I was under the impression that the virtual particles were ZPE. Lethalfang, could you clear this up for me plz?

  9. #29
    Second Lieutenant lethalfang's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    273

    Lightbulb Re: Featherweight Singularity

    Quote Originally Posted by smartquin
    True, a random conglomeration of energy just sitting there, with no way of using it for anything useful.

    Just to clarify, the Casimir effect isnt ZPE is it? I was under the impression that the virtual particles were ZPE. Lethalfang, could you clear this up for me plz?
    One can argue that Casimir effect is a consequence of zero point energy, but the point is that Casimir Force is not infinite nor perpetual, i.e. the amount of energy is finite.
    Casimir force occurs when you have two plane sheets very close to each other, so close that some virtual particles are too "large" to exist in this region. Therefore, there will be a higher concentration of virtual particles outside than there is inside, creating a force pushing the two sheets together.
    The Casimir effect is not unlike the suction, i.e. higher concentration of air molecules outside than there is inside.
    You can also find similar effect in water solution, a well known phenomenon is given a fancy name called the depletion force: when you have large molecules and small molecules in water, the large molecules will attract to each other, because once large molecules come together, the small molecules cannot get in between these large molecules, so there is a higher concentration of small molecules outside than there is inside, pushing the large molecules together.
    No one has ever claimed vacuum suction or depletion force to be source of infinite zero point energy. They are, along with the Casimir force, simply a consequence of concentration/pressure difference.
    "Thermodynamics is the only physical theory of universal content which, within the framework of the applicability of its basic concepts, I am convinced will never be overthrown." — Albert Einstein

  10. #30

Similar Threads

  1. Singularity (114)
    By GateWorld in forum Season One
    Replies: 269
    Last Post: December 11th, 2018, 03:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •