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  1. #1

    Default Inconsistencies?

    Hello.

    I am having trouble with some things that were said in the season finale of SG-1 Season 7. Before entering the Ancient outpost on Earth, the team was wondering how they would get down from the ship. Then, someone on the team said that they could get there by using the rings. After all, if the Ancients had built the outpost then there "had to be rings down there" (paraphrasing).

    Now, I consider the rings to be an inferior piece of technology. The Asgard have great teleport abilities. With this in mind, I am forced to conclude that the Asgard are NOW more powerful than the Ancients were. Yes, the Ancients originally built the stargates, but they ascended and the Asguard continued to progress.

    This seems to make sense so far. So, the Ancients were very powerful, but the Asgard eventually become more powerful. This would explain the apparents inconsistency in teleport technology. However, there is another episode where Thor is taken captive (Epsiode 522). In this episode, the Goa'uld have shields that stopped even the Asgard's weapons. One can only assume that this technology must have come from Anubis's knowledge of the Ancients's technology. This seems to contradict the idea that the Asgard are now more powerful than the Ancients were.

    So who was more powerful....the preascended Ancients or the present day Asgard, and how do you resolve the troubles between the teleport technology and the shields that stopped Asgard weapons?

    There is another issue that I have noticed. Review Scorched Earth (episode 409). The representative to the Enkarans said that the Gadmeer were an extinct and highly advanced race that was 10,000 years old. The Gadmeer were VERY advanced. They even seemed to be on par with the Asgard and certainly they were more powerful than the Tollans. How is such an advanced civilization possible in only 10,000 years? The impression I had was that the pyramids on Earth were built a very long time ago. The impression I had was that the Ancients had ascended a very long time ago. In fact, in "Lost City II" Carter estimated that SG-1 was 'probably more' than 1,000,000 years late in their arrival to the first outpost. Also, when Jack was showing the location of 'Atlantis' on Earth, Antartica was shown to be in a 'warm' spot on the planet. Daniel said that the picture didn't take into account 30 million years of continental drift. Anyway, there seems to be convince evidence that the Ancients ascended much, much more than 10,000 years ago. The Asgard have continued to live since the ascension, and yet, the Gadmeer appear to be as advanced. How does that work?

    Also, does anyone have any theories were the Tollans came from. I was wondering if their were ancestors of some of the ancients who did not ascend. I am having trouble resolving their advanced technology. Where did it come from? If earth was where the Tau'ri were discovered, we should be quite an advanced human civilization. Yet the Tollans and the Aschen are more powerful humans. Did they get technology from the Goa'uld and then change it to their own? Doubtful...neither race seemed to be aware of the Goa'uld. If not the Goa'uld from where did these races arise and where did they get their technology?

    Finally, the four great races were the Ancients, Asgard, Nox, and the Furlings. Will we ever meet the Furlings? Does anyone think that the Mayans might be the Furlings? I am waiting for the Mayans to come back. Clearly they are an advanced (perhaps ancient) race of beings who are more powerful than the Goa'uld.

    Finally again, the Replicators had technology more advanced than the Asgard...any ideas were that technology was 'assimilated' from?

    Just some thoughts.
    Last edited by yuilsa; March 3rd, 2009 at 01:14 PM.

  2. #2
    Lieutenant Colonel Elwe Singollo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    The part about who is more advanced, Asgard or Ancients, i think both races have things that each don't have, so like the rings transportation would be a common technology that even the Goa'uld uses, so yah, thats what i think

    And the part about where did the Replicators get their advancements over the Asgard, i think maybe since they're alot of little tiny multiplying replicators out there, eating knowledge from practically any race, i guess they would have the upper hand, even if they had a same level of technology of the Asgard.

  3. #3
    First Lieutenant Torley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Interesting to note that Goa'uld seem to have remained pretty static on the whole throughout the better part of 5,000 years. Ha'tak ships haven't changed much, it seems, and the most powerful technologies (like the Anubis-assembled Eyes superweapon) are all very... ancient! It seems clear cut that the unified Six Eyes possess more destructive power than any current Asgard weapon. Either that, or the Asgard don't have a history of being terribly violent with the Goa'uld and would rather "beam them away" than blast 'em into bits.

    I don't know how much Asgard ships have advanced, but if they have maintained clear tech. superiority over the Goa'uld until recently, maybe they have been too complacent. I'm sure the Replicators got them thinking again too. Oh yeah, the Replicators took over Asgard ships and learned their computers inside out -- that's one part of how they got so advanced. It's kind of like how some stores will match a deal and then maybe even better it if you find a lower-priced bargain!

    Just goes to show, they don't make stuff like they used to

  4. #4
    Major DownFallAngel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by yuilsa
    So who was more powerful....the preascended Ancients or the present day Asgard, and how do you resolve the troubles between the teleport technology and the shields that stopped Asgard weapons?
    Just because the Asgard have better, faster, teleportation technology, does that mean they are smarter? I think not. I think the ancients are still, even in their acended form, gaining more and more knowledge. Look at that episode with Orlin. He was able to transfer/influece an entire race of people to build a super powerful weapon that can defeat the guald. They also have showed us, through Anubis, that their knowledge, surpasses that of what the Asgard know about them (that little mind downloading device).

    So your question isn't "Who is more powerful?" but in essance, "Who is smarter." For that, I would still answer the Ancients. Power, Ancients (control weather, influece people, ascend whole planets).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by yuilsa
    There is another issue that I have noticed. Review Scorched Earth (episode 409). The representative to the Enkarans said that the Gadmeer were an extinct and highly advanced race that was 10,000 years old. The Gadmeer were VERY advanced. They even seemed to be on par with the Asgard and certainly they were more powerful than the Tollans. How is such an advanced civilization possible in only 10,000 years? The impression I had was that the pyramids on Earth were built a very long time ago.
    It could have been that their solar orbit was larger than Earth's. And if, when SG1 was brought aboard, the ship scanned them and thier knowledge, just as it did the Enkarans. So maybe he just translated it into Earth standard years.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by yuilsa
    Also, when Jack was showing the location of 'Atlantis' on Earth, Antartica was shown to be in a 'warm' spot on the planet. Daniel said that the picture didn't take into account 30 million years of continental drift. Anyway, there seems to be convince evidence that the Ancients ascended much, much more than 10,000 years ago. The Asgard have continued to live since the ascension, and yet, the Gadmeer appear to be as advanced. How does that work?
    Kinda supported by first two parts of this.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by yuilsa
    Also, does anyone have any theories were the Tollans came from. I was wondering if their were ancestors of some of the ancients who did not ascend. I am having trouble resolving their advanced technology. Where did it come from? If earth was where the Tau'ri were discovered, we should be quite an advanced human civilization. Yet the Tollans and the Aschen are more powerful humans. Did they get technology from the Goa'uld and then change it to their own? Doubtful...neither race seemed to be aware of the Goa'uld. If not the Goa'uld from where did these races arise and where did they get their technology?
    The tollans are humans who were transported to Tollan. They must have been abondoned early on, and then started building on thier own. Because of thier lack of "A dark age" they were able to gain about 250-300 years on earth's technology. They now live on Tollana, after their sister planet was destroyed due to technology, that the tollan produced, forcing Tollan out of its orbit.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by yuilsa
    Finally, the four great races were the Ancients, Asgard, Nox, and the Furlings. Will we ever meet the Furlings? Does anyone think that the Mayans might be the Furlings? I am waiting for the Mayans to come back. Clearly they are an advanced (perhaps ancient) race of beings who are more powerful than the Goa'uld.
    No, I don't think we will meet them. I don't think the "Mayan" aliens are the. And I agree they are more powerful than the Gou'uld.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by yuilsa
    Finally again, the Replicators had technology more advanced than the Asgard...any ideas were that technology was 'assimilated' from?
    Most of the technology came from the asgard. The asgard have been fighting them for a very long time. I beleive they (replicators) migrated to the Ida galaxy, after they were finished feeding on Reese's home planet, and found that the asgard had much more powerful technology in thier galaxy, than that of the milkyway.
    Last edited by Skydiver; March 3rd, 2009 at 06:34 PM.
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  5. #5
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Originally Posted by yuilsa

    There is another issue that I have noticed. Review Scorched Earth (episode 409). The representative to the Enkarans said that the Gadmeer were an extinct and highly advanced race that was 10,000 years old. The Gadmeer were VERY advanced. They even seemed to be on par with the Asgard and certainly they were more powerful than the Tollans. How is such an advanced civilization possible in only 10,000 years? The impression I had was that the pyramids on Earth were built a very long time ago.
    The rep said that their library spanned 10,000 years, not that the civilization began 10,000 years ago. They could be much older than the Asgard, and they could be from a different galaxy originally. If that ship has been on route for 5 million years, the Asgard would likely have never encountered them.

    The tollans are humans who were transported to Tollan. They must have been abondoned early on, and then started building on thier own. Because of thier lack of "A dark age" they were able to gain about 250-300 years on earth's technology. They now live on Tollana, after their sister planet was destroyed due to technology, that the tollan produced, forcing Tollan out of its orbit.
    Doubt it. The Tollan could have been from one of the original human planets in our galaxy, like Earth. There are quite a few human races that weren't transported by the Goa'uld, the one in my avatar pic being one of those human races.
    They said that they knew of the Goa'uld, they just didn't interact with them. That would seem to indicate that they never interacted with them, and that they originated on Tollan, their home planet, not Earth.
    Of course they never said this in the show, and they since they've seemed to have killed the Tollan off, I suppose it no longer matters.

    Finally again, the Replicators had technology more advanced than the Asgard...any ideas were that technology was 'assimilated' from?
    They assimilated it from the Asgard. The thing is, they were using the time dilation device to increase the rate at which time flowed, so in those few days after they switched the machine from slow to fast, they were able to advance their technology hundreds or even thousands of years. That's why their technology was superior.
    Last edited by Skydiver; March 3rd, 2009 at 06:34 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin
    The rep said that their library spanned 10,000 years, not that the civilization began 10,000 years ago. They could be much older than the Asgard, and they could be from a different galaxy originally. If that ship has been on route for 5 million years, the Asgard would likely have never encountered them.


    Doubt it. The Tollan could have been from one of the original human planets in our galaxy, like Earth. There are quite a few human races that weren't transported by the Goa'uld, the one in my avatar pic being one of those human races.
    They said that they knew of the Goa'uld, they just didn't interact with them. That would seem to indicate that they never interacted with them, and that they originated on Tollan, their home planet, not Earth.
    Of course they never said this in the show, and they since they've seemed to have killed the Tollan off, I suppose it no longer matters.


    They assimilated it from the Asgard. The thing is, they were using the time dilation device to increase the rate at which time flowed, so in those few days after they switched the machine from slow to fast, they were able to advance their technology hundreds or even thousands of years. That's why their technology was superior.
    Actually Jarnin, I think all humans in the galaxy were brought to their respective planets by the Goa'uld.

  7. #7
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    I do think that at the time, the Ancients would have been far more advanced than any other, despite what we have seen. On top of this they learned to ascend.

    The Asgard are still continuing to learn and develop what they have so they are making some rapid improvments. However, now the Asgard are studying Ancient tech, perhaps that's where they get some of their knowledge from? Just a guess.

  8. #8
    Second Lieutenant 220683's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Spoiler Stargate Atlantis














    So who was more powerful....the preascended Ancients or the present day Asgard, and how do you resolve the troubles between the teleport technology and the shields that stopped Asgard weapons
    Ancients. When they build the outpost, they did not use any cutting edge transports. Either they don't see the need, or rings were popular that time. By the time they build Atlantis, they decided to go all out, and spare no expenses.

    There will always be an unbridgeable technological gap between the Ancients and the Asgard. A gap in term of million of years. For the Asgard to surpass the Ancients, there will have to advance in an accelerate exponential rate (basically a miracle). Rest assured, it will not happen anytime soon.
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    Major aschen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    The Asgard even admitted that the Ancients were (and apparently still are) smarter than they are.

    I'm REALLY excited that Thor is gonna be in the new ep friday.

  10. #10
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by 220683
    There will always be an unbridgeable technological gap between the Ancients and the Asgard. A gap in term of million of years. For the Asgard to surpass the Ancients, there will have to advance in an accelerate exponential rate (basically a miracle). Rest assured, it will not happen anytime soon.


    I think you're right. For a start, there needs to be a larger number of Asgard, since they are apparently a dying race so that's target one. The Asgard need to do a lot more to even be remotely close to the level the Ancients finished at.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by yuilsa
    Hello.

    I am having trouble with some things that were said in the season finale of SG-1 Season 7. Before entering the Ancient outpost on Earth, the team was wondering how they would get down from the ship. Then, someone on the team said that they could get there by using the rings. After all, if the Ancients had built the outpost then there "had to be rings down there" (paraphrasing).

    Now, I consider the rings to be an inferior piece of technology. The Asgard have great teleport abilities. With this in mind, I am forced to conclude that the Asgard are NOW more powerful than the Ancients were. Yes, the Ancients originally built the stargates, but they ascended and the Asguard continued to progress.

    This seems to make sense so far. So, the Ancients were very powerful, but the Asgard eventually become more powerful. This would explain the apparents inconsistency in teleport technology. However, there is another episode where Thor is taken captive (Epsiode 522). In this episode, the Goa'uld have shields that stopped even the Asgard's weapons. One can only assume that this technology must have come from Anubis's knowledge of the Ancients's technology. This seems to contradict the idea that the Asgard are now more powerful than the Ancients were.

    So who was more powerful....the preascended Ancients or the present day Asgard, and how do you resolve the troubles between the teleport technology and the shields that stopped Asgard weapons?

    There is another issue that I have noticed. Review Scorched Earth (episode 409). The representative to the Enkarans said that the Gadmeer were an extinct and highly advanced race that was 10,000 years old. The Gadmeer were VERY advanced. They even seemed to be on par with the Asgard and certainly they were more powerful than the Tollans. How is such an advanced civilization possible in only 10,000 years? The impression I had was that the pyramids on Earth were built a very long time ago. The impression I had was that the Ancients had ascended a very long time ago. In fact, in "Lost City II" Carter estimated that SG-1 was 'probably more' than 1,000,000 years late in their arrival to the first outpost. Also, when Jack was showing the location of 'Atlantis' on Earth, Antartica was shown to be in a 'warm' spot on the planet. Daniel said that the picture didn't take into account 30 million years of continental drift. Anyway, there seems to be convince evidence that the Ancients ascended much, much more than 10,000 years ago. The Asgard have continued to live since the ascension, and yet, the Gadmeer appear to be as advanced. How does that work?

    Also, does anyone have any theories were the Tollans came from. I was wondering if their were ancestors of some of the ancients who did not ascend. I am having trouble resolving their advanced technology. Where did it come from? If earth was where the Tau'ri were discovered, we should be quite an advanced human civilization. Yet the Tollans and the Aschen are more powerful humans. Did they get technology from the Goa'uld and then change it to their own? Doubtful...neither race seemed to be aware of the Goa'uld. If not the Goa'uld from where did these races arise and where did they get their technology?

    Finally, the four great races were the Ancients, Asgard, Nox, and the Furlings. Will we ever meet the Furlings? Does anyone think that the Mayans might be the Furlings? I am waiting for the Mayans to come back. Clearly they are an advanced (perhaps ancient) race of beings who are more powerful than the Goa'uld.

    Finally again, the Replicators had technology more advanced than the Asgard...any ideas were that technology was 'assimilated' from?

    Just some thoughts,
    Chris
    RING TRANSPORTERS:

    Last month, I made a post http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=2312 that addresses this point. However, my thinking is that the Goa'uld created the ring transporters based on stargate technology. The Ancients had their own transport system, in my opinion. Like I said, and like you said, the Asgard, Wraith, and even the Aschen have better, more advanced transporter tech, so why would the Ancients have lamer tech? Well, they didn't create the transporters...teh Goa'uld did.

    Why were there rings in the outposts? Well, they did find Jaffa in the antarctic outpost, so maybe they installed them...

    I dunno the answers to this, but I think the Goa'uld created them.

    TOLLANS:

    I also had a post alluding to this: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...444#post103444. I suggested that the more advanced humans were descendants of the Ancients that remained on those planets that THEY seeded in the MW galaxy, and were not brought by the Goa'uld from Earth. However, it seems most ppl agree that the Goa'uld brought them. Where was this mentioned? What episode?

    GADMEER:
    I almost forgot about those dudes. Hey, didn't they look a lil bit like the aliens from Independence Day? I want to know more about them too. I don't think they were as advanced as the Goa'uld or Asgard, but who knows...their ship was cool though.

    CRYSTAL SKULL/MAYAN ALIENS:
    I don't think they were more advanced than the goa'uld, but they were cool.

    What about the foothold aliens and the reatu and reoule? They should do more closure on those aliens too.
    Last edited by Skydiver; March 3rd, 2009 at 06:35 PM.

  12. #12
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    The Gadmeer had 10,000 years of recorded history, the Goa'uld came to Earth around that time, so the Goa'uld are X years older, however since the Gadmeer were a peaceful race and didn't fight amongst themselves, the're probably more advanced, but the Goa'uld is still more powerful since they spend all their resources on warfare.

    And the Mayan ones are probably much more powerful then the Goa'uld.

  13. #13
    Major Mio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Various spoilers for everything

    The ring transporters are CLEARLY ancient tech.

    Spoiler:
    We get this from several places.

    In Homecoming, or Fragile Balance, or whatever, there is a rings platform in the city (Which was NOT Vis Uban, damnit!)

    The outpost has rings. The rings may be able to interface with the Ancient 'closet' in Atlantis.

    Atlantis's transporters make the same noise as the rings.

    That's all I could think of. <g> I'm tired.

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mio
    Various spoilers for everything

    The ring transporters are CLEARLY ancient tech.

    Spoiler:
    We get this from several places.

    In Homecoming, or Fragile Balance, or whatever, there is a rings platform in the city (Which was NOT Vis Uban, damnit!)

    The outpost has rings. The rings may be able to interface with the Ancient 'closet' in Atlantis.

    Atlantis's transporters make the same noise as the rings.

    That's all I could think of. <g> I'm tired.


    Mio has pointed out them all correctly. We didn't learn anything 'new' from Frozen so that is about it. Right on Mio!

  15. #15
    Chief Master Sergeant Icegod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Spoiler warning(Highlight to read):

    Who's more powerfull: I say the Ancients. Why. Simply because Thor stateted that they had downloaded the knowledge of the ancients and that they were studying it for as long as he can remember and that in that time they barely scratched the surface.

    Gadmeer: Well they were a peacefull race and so they develloped peacefull technologie and thus are no match for any race that is mess peacefull. They spend all their time develloping those peacefull technologie that in more than 10.000 years(You don't record everyting from the beginning of time) they became very advanced in that sort of things.

    Tollans: Well Daniel stated that they were as advanced as they are because of a lack of a dark age wich is very possible. Look at the rate technologie develops here. We can't know were we will be in 150+ years. As for them or any other advanced race coming from the Ancients seems a long shot as most of the tech they have is vastly infirior too the ancient tech.

    Ring Transporters: Well as most already said Ancient tech. How else did they get in the outpost. I was burried under severel miles of ice. Oh and the jaffa was found at the gate not the outpost. I don't even think that the Asgard have more evolved transportation tech. The stargate is the best transportation device of all. Far more advanced than any of the Asgard.
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  16. #16
    Lieutenant Colonel aAnubiSs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Also the Tollans advancements could also be explained by their access to naquadah and trinium on their planet. That is if they had any

  17. #17
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by aAnubiSs
    Also the Tollans advancements could also be explained by their access to naquadah and trinium on their planet. That is if they had any


    Possibly, but it has not yet been explained so we can't really tell for sure.

  18. #18
    Major aschen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    The Gadmeer were a peacful race, there's no doubt from that. However, that doesn't mean that they weren't powerful. Take the Nox for example. You don't need big guns to protect yourself. All guns lead to are more guns and more destruction and more death!

  19. #19
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by aschen
    The Gadmeer were a peacful race, there's no doubt from that. However, that doesn't mean that they weren't powerful. Take the Nox for example. You don't need big guns to protect yourself. All guns lead to are more guns and more destruction and more death!


    In some cases it can be good as a defense however I think you're right, certain weapons in different leaderships can cause chaos, so it's best to keep it to a minimum.

  20. #20
    Chief Master Sergeant Icegod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inconsistencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by aschen
    The Gadmeer were a peacful race, there's no doubt from that. However, that doesn't mean that they weren't powerful. Take the Nox for example. You don't need big guns to protect yourself. All guns lead to are more guns and more destruction and more death!
    That's about what I said. They devellopped peacefull/defensive technologie that probably rivals any race.
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