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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    The underlying ethical conflicts and their resolution made this an excellent episode as far as I am concerned. Just too bad we don't hear again from the Enkarens and Lotan again. Apparently a stargate isn't necessary because Lotan's ship travels very fast! And I wonder how fast that would be.
    Nice how most episodes show the scenery of British Columbia as the backdrop for so many alien planets.......

  2. #82
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    So that gives Jack the right to kill a whole species because they arrived second?
    There is no morally perfect solution in these sorts of situations so I prefer to fall back on pragmatism. The Enkarans were up and about and would have been wiped out themselves had the ship been allowed to just keep going. Daniel's stunt was an insane gamble that I never thought would work till it actually did. Jack couldn't afford to sit on the fence. If Daniel's stunt hadn't worked 'a' race would have been wiped out. End of.

  3. #83
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G View Post
    There is no morally perfect solution in these sorts of situations so I prefer to fall back on pragmatism. The Enkarans were up and about and would have been wiped out themselves had the ship been allowed to just keep going. Daniel's stunt was an insane gamble that I never thought would work till it actually did. Jack couldn't afford to sit on the fence. If Daniel's stunt hadn't worked 'a' race would have been wiped out. End of.
    And doing what Jack did if successful would have killed the Gadmer. I acknowledge that under the intial circumstances it was a no win in that one species would. I just take issue of how Jack automatically sides with the Enkarians without considering the Gadmer. They have a right to live too.
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  4. #84
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    I just take issue of how Jack automatically sides with the Enkarians without considering the Gadmer.
    It isn't that unexpected that he would; we generally side with that which we know and is familiar over that which is not.

    Seaboe

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Is there any possibility of building a stargate from scratch for the purposes of giving one to people like the nice Enkarens??

  6. #86
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave2 View Post
    Is there any possibility of building a stargate from scratch for the purposes of giving one to people like the nice Enkarens??
    Not for Earth. We've seen the Tollans build their own gate, but it's way above our heads. They could take one from another planet though, preferably with a DHD otherwise you'll need a dialing computer and enough power.
    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
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  7. #87
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
    It isn't that unexpected that he would; we generally side with that which we know and is familiar over that which is not.

    Seaboe
    Maybe not. But I still find it wrong to not even consider the other side. Its not even out of character for Jack. I just do not like what he did
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
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  8. #88
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    This story fascinated me because we have three different levels of cultural development. One one side we have the largely agrarian Enkarans and on the very opposite side we have the very alien looking, very highly developed Gadmer.

    In the middle we have the Earth folk. I like that the Gadmer are not big meanies which would make it easy to hate them and root for the simpler, likeable, look-like-us Enkarans.

    A great dilemma with the usual cast behaving perfectly in character.
    Calculus and Alcohol don't mix. Never drink and derive.

  9. #89
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    And doing what Jack did if successful would have killed the Gadmer. I acknowledge that under the intial circumstances it was a no win in that one species would. I just take issue of how Jack automatically sides with the Enkarians without considering the Gadmer. They have a right to live too.
    The Gadmeer were effectively on life support. Now I'm as anti-euthasia as you can get but I wouldn't expect a fully-functioning individual to give up their life in favour of someone on life support. Jack saw the Enkarans as friends and he was respecting his friends' wishes "make sure we're able to stay on this planet for we have nowhere else to go".

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by hlndncr View Post
    Personally, I get so tired of the "we don't here of this person, race, world again" complaint.

    If SG-1 revisited everyone and every place fans think they should have we would have stopped exploring by the end of season three because every episode would be another follow-up visit.
    It doesn't require entire episodes to follow up on past worlds:


    • It can be as simple as a couple of lines of dialoge: "Isn't this a cool new medical device the Orbanians designed? Yeah, the exchange program is working well."
    • It can be a ten-second clip of another world's ambassador ending a conversation and leaving the briefing room, before the current story's briefing gets underway.



    For this episode, Scorched Earth, I would have enjoyed a few lines of dialogue about the possibility of future relations with the Ganmere:


    Daniel: We'd like to get to know the Ganmere after they're re-established.
    Lotan: The Ganmere will contact you in time. They'll be grateful that you found a way for their world to be re-born without destroying another people.
    Daniel: How long will the terra-forming take?
    Lotan: Many, many years.


    Ah, so now I know not to expect any follow-up, and there's a good reason as well.

  11. #91
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G View Post
    The Gadmeer were effectively on life support. Now I'm as anti-euthasia as you can get but I wouldn't expect a fully-functioning individual to give up their life in favour of someone on life support. Jack saw the Enkarans as friends and he was respecting his friends' wishes "make sure we're able to stay on this planet for we have nowhere else to go".
    That example doesn't work because life support or euthanisa implies thier is no hope for their species which just seems inaccurate given this scenario and reason for terraforming said planet. A process mind that started before the Enkarian arrived on the planet with SG1. As for Jack its dangerous to let your emotions cloud reason when it comes to making moral choices. That just leads to bias.
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
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  12. #92
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Given my arguing with people the past week about how Jack's decision you would think I did not like this episode Nothing could be farther from the truth. The fact that it presents such a moral arguement from me and is presented so well as Daniel and Jack disagree about what is right is why I love this episode so much. Its a no win situation and while I am disturbed about how easily Jack sides with the Enkarians without considering the Gadmer's point of view it is still an interesting dilema to wage out in the first place as no one is really the villian. Both species just want to live. The one compliant how we get a nice and easy solution of the Gadmer knowing the original home world of the Enkarians. But maybe I just watch too much dark TV
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
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  13. #93
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    That example doesn't work because life support or euthanisa implies thier is no hope for their species which just seems inaccurate given this scenario and reason for terraforming said planet. A process mind that started before the Enkarian arrived on the planet with SG1. As for Jack its dangerous to let your emotions cloud reason when it comes to making moral choices. That just leads to bias.
    Maybe it does and it's something I've learned to try and avoid when talking about this stuff but I also know that when the arguments come close to home, you are more likely to get emotional(humans have emotions - deal with it!). As I said in my last post, Jack saw the Enkarans as friends, therefore I can live with his emotions coming into play and once again, the Gadmeer were in suspended animation and while they may have been technologically advanced...so were the Eurondans! There were too many things about the Gadmeer that we didn't know or only had Lotan's word for.

    SG1 got lucky in that Daniel was able to fix up a solution that worked for both races but I could have lived with the Gadmeer getting toasted.

  14. #94
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    That is not really the issue. I have the problem with letting those emotions cloud his judgement and not even consider the Gadmer. Because the Enkarians were he friends he automatically decidied their life had priority. That is wrong on all levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
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  15. #95
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    I'd have made the same decision. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself had I done nothing while my friends' lives were being threatened.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    That is not the point. Ultimately a decision had to be made as both societies couldn't live. I have issues with the ease of chosing the Enkarians without even considering the Gadmer. They have a right to live
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
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  17. #97
    Second Lieutenant dtheories's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Jack faced with another tough decision. Goes from being the lead hero that has a baby to be named after him, to having to draw upon limited and explosive resources to save members of a race he's feeling personally responsible for. His passion - manifested especially in anger toward Daniel (Tell me, TELL ME, you are NOT on that ship? No wonder Daniel was backing away from him when he and Lotan materialized in the village. Cute! Not as cute as Daniel is in this ep...but I digress!) - Jack's passion is shown as a significant part of his character.

    Was this the first reactor turned into a bomb? I think there are naquadah enhanced bombs affixed to the X301 in Tangent, but I can't recall whether there were bombs made out of the stuff prior to this ep.

    The storage facility on the Gadmere ship was strangely reminicent of Euronda, and its similar issues. Here, though, the Gadmere species purposely appear quite violent, yet are described as peaceful. Excellent juxtapositioning by the writers!

    I think what I read into the look Jack gives Daniel at the end epitomizes the ep: Wanna kill him, while simultaneously so amazed by him.

    Part of what makes the show so great.

  18. #98
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    That is not the point. Ultimately a decision had to be made as both societies couldn't live. I have issues with the ease of chosing the Enkarians without even considering the Gadmer. They have a right to live
    In theory yes but this is an example of SG1's reality being imperfect. Jack was effectively faced with the question "which race do I save?" Given that he felt honour-bound to protect the Enkarens...

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by dtheories View Post
    Was this the first reactor turned into a bomb? I think there are naquadah enhanced bombs affixed to the X301 in Tangent
    No, plain "slammer missiles" were attached to the X301.

    Nevermind.

    Seaboe
    Last edited by Seaboe Muffinchucker; November 28th, 2011 at 10:36 AM.

  20. #100
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scorched Earth (409)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G View Post
    In theory yes but this is an example of SG1's reality being imperfect. Jack was effectively faced with the question "which race do I save?" Given that he felt honour-bound to protect the Enkarens...
    That still completely ignores he gave 0 consideration to other race.
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
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