Evil Ori = Anti Religon

[Mr_Alpha_Omega]

I don't want to start a religon debate, but I was just wondering if anyone else seemed to notice that this season seems to be downing religons?

[Xanderic]

no.. Daniel was defending free will against the will of the Ori. We have the free will to believe in the religions on Earth.

[Redwall]

Well, there are aspects of mainstream religions the Ori certainly parallel, and the depth of the metaphor is certainly a gray area. I don't think, say, Origin = Christianity, but one could argue Origin is pretty equal with medieval Christianity. Aside from the whole having actual power thing, of course.

Given Daniel's profession, he'd realistically probably be an atheist anyway, so his speeches kind of reflect that (although he has made a disturbing trend toward considering humans above other lifeforms [e.g. machines, in Reckoning]).

[LORD MONK]

Well, there are aspects of mainstream religions the Ori certainly parallel, and the depth of the metaphor is certainly a gray area. I don't think, say, Origin = Christianity, but one could argue Origin is pretty equal with medieval Christianity. Aside from the whole having actual power thing, of course.

Given Daniel's profession, he'd realistically probably be an atheist anyway, so his speeches kind of reflect that (although he has made a disturbing trend toward considering humans above other lifeforms [e.g. machines, in Reckoning]).

I am Christian and come from a strong Christian family. I was taught, growing up, to respect everyone no matter what their beliefs were. I have realy good friends that think, religuosly, way different then me.

Their is the hole Salem Witch Trials though. But that is considered evel and not a religion back then. Now it is wicka, not Satanic.

[Erik Bloodaxe]

Well, there are aspects of mainstream religions the Ori certainly parallel, and the depth of the metaphor is certainly a gray area. I don't think, say, Origin = Christianity, but one could argue Origin is pretty equal with medieval Christianity. Aside from the whole having actual power thing, of course.

The Ori aren't representative of any particular religion, but of the wrong way to practice any given religion, w/ their whole "believe or die" attitude. Since the Others allow everyone the free will to choose for themselves, it could be said they represent the right way and are thus good because of it. So SG-1 is not about a "war on religion", but rather a "war on evil", and frankly there's a difference between subscribing to the actual teachings of a given religion and twisting those teachings to suit one's own selfish agenda.

Given Daniel's profession, he'd realistically probably be an atheist anyway, so his speeches kind of reflect that (although he has made a disturbing trend toward considering humans above other lifeforms [e.g. machines, in Reckoning]).

I'd say that claiming that all anthropoligists/related professions are probably atheists is getting pretty close to a generalization (i.e. unlikely to be true for all). I'd say the evidence is actually more in favor of him having a spiritual side, given episodes like "Maternal Instinct" and his "someone watching over us" line to Jack; perhaps he doesn't subscibe to any particular religion, but his leanings seem to be more on the theism/spiritual (possibly even deism) side of things.

-Bloodaxe

[Xanderic]

I thought that Daniel mentioned he grew up a Christian a long time ago... iono... maybe i should watch the episodes again.

[LORD MONK]

The Ori aren't representative of any particular religion, but of the wrong way to practice any given religion, w/ their whole "believe or die" attitude. Since the Others allow everyone the free will to choose for themselves, it could be said they represent the right way and are thus good because of it. So SG-1 is not about a "war on religion", but rather a "war on evil", and frankly there's a difference between subscribing to the actual teachings of a given religion and twisting those teachings to suit one's own selfish agenda.



I'd say that claiming that all anthropoligists/related professions are probably atheists is getting pretty close to a generalization (i.e. unlikely to be true for all). I'd say the evidence is actually more in favor of him having a spiritual side, given episodes like "Maternal Instinct" and his "someone watching over us" line to Jack; perhaps he doesn't subscibe to any particular religion, but his leanings seem to be more on the theism/spiritual (possibly even deism) side of things.

-Bloodaxe

well spoken, or writen. I gave you greens for it. Nobody should be killed because they think a different way. If you have a religion you should stick to it. Have morals and don't cross them. Temptation is a b_t_h.

[Crichton]

I don't really think the Ori storyline has been more anti-religous than normal stargate. The whole show revolved around dispelling false religous beliefs based on false gods. The episode where SG-1 accidentally gates through a sun opening up a black whole and making the sky go red has some slight anti-religous dialogue when O'Neill's trying to convince the people of that town that it's not a religous issue...but then they end it with Daniel admitting that he "believes" moments before death and the problem is suddenly fixed. They hint at the possibility of influence from a god or you can think it's a purely scientific solution. I'm guessing they'll do something similar with the Ori storyline.

[Redwall]

I'd say that claiming that all anthropoligists/related professions are probably atheists is getting pretty close to a generalization (i.e. unlikely to be true for all). I'd say the evidence is actually more in favor of him having a spiritual side, given episodes like "Maternal Instinct" and his "someone watching over us" line to Jack; perhaps he doesn't subscibe to any particular religion, but his leanings seem to be more on the theism/spiritual (possibly even deism) side of things.

"Probably" implies the majority are atheists, which is true. I realise there are some (and they're not exactly rare, either) that are religious to some extent. I also agree about the whole spiritualism thing; I really meant --before-- he came in contact with the Ancients, which has clearly changed his whole perspective.

[TheCorpulent1]

But even the Ancients have fallen into a practical role for him. He started getting caught up in the spiritual nature of their ascended members in "Maternal Instinct," but after learning so much more about them and the process of ascension, I think they've been demystified and lost most of their spiritual implications to Daniel. He views them as highly advanced and evolved humans with a greater understanding of the universe gained through research and practice, just like every other form of knowledge. No more, no less.

[IMForeman]

I think Bloodaxe is absolutely correct. The Ori aren't an idictment of religion, so much as it is a outcry against using intimidation and violence to force religion on others. If someone had shown up trying to preach their religion, but people were free to take it or leave it, well Daniel probably wouldn't have had much to say against it. In fact, given his academic history, he may find it facinating. However, Daniel has seen first hand how the Ori treat those who do not believe. There's a wide chasm between "Believe and be rewarded in the afterlife" and "Believe or I'll set you on fire."

-IMF

[FireLadie]

I think Bloodaxe is absolutely correct. The Ori aren't an idictment of religion, so much as it is a outcry against using intimidation and violence to force religion on others. If someone had shown up trying to preach their religion, but people were free to take it or leave it, well Daniel probably wouldn't have had much to say against it. In fact, given his academic history, he may find it facinating. However, Daniel has seen first hand how the Ori treat those who do not believe. There's a wide chasm between "Believe and be rewarded in the afterlife" and "Believe or I'll set you on fire."

-IMF

I agree... it's more about the "believe or die" aspect. I think one of the things he respects about the Ascended Ancients is they are totally opposite to this theology. The Ancients have made their mistakes and can be annoying (last season for example with the whole gonna let anubis destroy everyone) but they are not forcing belief and are not treating themselve as gods either. They are not making themselves out to be more than what they are. The ori however, have a superiority complex.

[Darth Buddha]

... and yet, are the Ori and their followers that different from many other religions? Christianity has The Inquisition and The Crusades, Islam has Jihad, even Buddhism had Pol Pot. All without the benefit of supernatural powers like the Priors have.

[TheCorpulent1]

... and yet, are the Ori and their followers that different from many other religions? Christianity has The Inquisition and The Crusades, Islam has Jihad, even Buddhism had Pol Pot. All without the benefit of supernatural powers like the Priors have.

Exactly. I think the Ori represent the worst of all religions. The fanatics, the zealots, the ones who can't see reason and can't accept other viewpoints.

[Osiris-RA]

That sense of 'downing religions' is the propoganda leaking through.

I don't really think the Ori storyline has been more anti-religous than normal stargate. The whole show revolved around dispelling false religous beliefs based on false gods.

Stargate was never 'religious'. It was spiritual. There's a difference really. I'm not exactly sure how to describe it, but I mean, say this, if you're going to dispell the universe of a creature who passes itself off as god and it seemingly is god-like, then how are you going to defeat it? You can't defeat it with guns or otherwordly voodoo or even an X-303 full of soda, you're going to need the TRUE spiritual force to dispell it, IMHO. Stargate never really professed who God was, except that yes, there is a god - and the goa'uld aren't it - the ori aren't it. Funny part is, if you look at it in a different way, who are they claiming God is? They usually end up saving the world with an incredible amount of luck. They've never preached religion or pushed forward any specific way of worshipping God. So if one were to look at it all in a creepily different way, you'd almost swear that god was... SG-1?

It's hypothetical, ok?