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  1. #21
    Second Lieutenant Liebestraume's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Fischer
    On the flip side, nearly all of the medical experimentation done in the death camps is useless. Modern medicine does not have to deal with the moral problems because the methodology and basis was so mixed in fantasy.
    Not to get too OT (or to debate international politics), but I'd like to observe that "medical experimentation" was not limited in Nazi death camps. A cursory glance of the Imeperial Japanese version, for instance, makes one's skin crawl. Unfortunately, the specifics of these atrocities have not been well-acknowledged in the west. Perhaps that's (part of) why modern medicine has not been dealing with the moral problems.
    In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~ Oscar Wilde

  2. #22
    Lieutenant Colonel Major Fischer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    Quote Originally Posted by Liebestraume

    Not to get too OT (or to debate international politics), but I'd like to observe that "medical experimentation" was not limited in Nazi death camps. A cursory glance of the Imeperial Japanese version, for instance, makes one's skin crawl. Unfortunately, the specifics of these atrocities have not been well-acknowledged in the west. Perhaps that's (part of) why modern medicine has not been dealing with the moral problems.
    Very true, and much of that research was used after the war. The thing with that, was that most of the Japanese medical research was into biological warfare and was used in biological warfare research post-war, which has a host of it's own ethical issues.

    Here the answer, I think has more to do with the fact that the Japanese medical research community has been set up (at least since the war) in such a way to be deterimental to cutting edge research. Essentially they make it very difficult for medicines developed abroad to gain approval in Japan, and that makes foreign companies reluctant to participate with Japanese firms in joint projects. So essentially while the rest of the world moves forward working togeather on pharmacudicals and the like, the Japanese are slightly behind.

    It's one of the costs of protectionism.

    ((My father worked for a German and a now works for a Japanese drug company, so I've heard him ranting at the diner table about the subject for about two decades now. Which is funny because my father rants about nothing ))



  3. #23
    Lieutenant Colonel Osiris-RA's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: The Other Side (402)

    what did o'neill mean when he was in that cryogenic room and he was scrolling through all the frozen people and he said ' they're all the same. every damn one of them.' i though he meant that they were all frozen, which was too obvious, then i tought he might have meant something on the screen.
    anybody know?

  4. #24
    Rodney’s Running Shoes
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    I'm pretty sure he was referring to the fact that they all basically shared almost the exact same genetics, as seen in their similar appearance. Farrell mentioned to Daniel about preserving genetic purity, which would give the Eurondans a very, very small gene pool for distinction between all of the people in stasis, and pretty much everyone underground. Call them all genetic clones of each other if you will.

  5. #25
    Lieutenant Colonel Osiris-RA's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanten
    I'm pretty sure he was referring to the fact that they all basically shared almost the exact same genetics, as seen in their similar appearance. Farrell mentioned to Daniel about preserving genetic purity, which would give the Eurondans a very, very small gene pool for distinction between all of the people in stasis, and pretty much everyone underground. Call them all genetic clones of each other if you will.
    oh, i see. i cant belive i didnt get that.

    i think this is one of the important episodes in stargate because they touch on a subject which seems to be the center of some controversy amoung americans. cloning. it's a stupid, stupid thing to do. weakening the gene pool and eventually, causing the very opposite of what it was intended for. death. after all, without fresh strong genes to use once in awhile, how would they continue living? it'd be like ... something i'd rather not touch on.

  6. #26
    First Lieutenant LMichelle's Avatar
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    Georgia
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    I thought Jack was a little too harsh to Daniel. Poor Daniel.

  7. #27
    Major General jckfan55's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    I thought Rene A. did a great creepy job. (It's been long enough, that I'm over the Benson thing.
    When he gives Tealc that look at the beginning you know something's fishy. And then when he gets that dreamy look talking about his father: "It was his vision..." you know just how fanatical they are. Not that you didn't know something was up--but you finally see--and SG1 sees--just how bad they are.

  8. #28

    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    YES! Now THIS is the way to do it!

    This was one great episode, imo.

    It's not just another story of SG-1 going to some planet and getting into trouble, and then experiancing some sci-fi thing, and then escaping at the last second... I mean, it is all those things, but there's actually MORE than that here, which is what makes me happy.

    There's a real human element to the story, with a relateable story about real life issues. The people of this world are racists in the worst sense, and don't even realize how wretched their way of thinking is. Not only this, but we also have conflicts between the characters, especially Jack and Daniel. Those two butting heads is one thing I'm always up for, and this is a perfect example of it done right.

    This is the episode "New Ground" should have been.

  9. #29
    First Lieutenant SmartFox's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
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    Oregon, USA
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    805

    Default Re: Preachy, hypocritical egomaniacs

    Quote Originally Posted by stargate barbie
    genocide is the right term. the SGC does not have a "prime directive". jack is a military man from a black ops background and is trained almost specifically for that kind of work. the fact that he went against daniels wishes means nothing. daniel is not military and would not understand such a decision even on earth. even carter who is military seemed to have some trouble with part of what he did.
    daniel would not have been able to carry out such a difficult decision, and thats why he's not in command of the team and jack is.

    the nazi's made some pretty big advances in technology in their day too. would you consider the decision to neutralize the threat they posed (not to mention the atrocities they committed) to be secondary to the advances they made? if you had the choice between salvaging technology, that wasn't earned or developed by you and saving millions of lives, with the potential sacrifice of a fraction of that, which choice would you take. what is more valueable, human lives or a fancy microwave?

    personally i think he did the only thing he could do, the only thing he knew how to do in such a situation. i'd probably do the same. part of it may have been instinct.

    personally i think you're only upset because he killed the blonde, aren't ya?
    if it makes you feel any better, PDL was the director of that episode and he killed of his own girlfriends character in it, and didn't have any problems with that.

    and you could have posted this in the recliner of rage thread. it fits. (shameless push)

    Well in the case of the Nazi's we stopped them and then took alot of their technology. Thats what Jack should of done.

  10. #30
    Second Lieutenant Sha're's Avatar
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    Dec 2004
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    Scotland
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    This was a great issue for Stargate to deal with. A technologically superior race that actually wants to supply some technology. No wonder the green light was given to start negotiations. Rene A. Is creepy and horrible in this ep - you just know there's something about him. I can understand the way Jack acts for much of this episode - Elar avoids the issue of why the enemy are their enemy. Jack has been given orders that he has to follow - I enjoyed the conflict between him and Daniel - with Daniel again taking the humanitarian side. And of course he was right - Jack was diplomatic enough to admit that. Good character episode IMO.

  11. #31
    Second Lieutenant Willow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    I thought it was interesting that Daniel was on the other side of the table from the others during the initial negotiations. Like he was already out of step with them or something.

  12. #32
    First Lieutenant fair_nymph's Avatar
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    Boston, USA
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    This was an excellent episode in my opinion. We get a new alien race, some cool new technology, and a thought-provoking moral/ethical dilemma.

    I noticed very early on that all the Cloners looked very Aryan, especially when they went through the database of those in stasis. So while I didn't suspect that they were fighting a war of genocide initially, I was always a little suspicious. Of course there was also the whole way they interacted with Teal'C.

    I think that ultimately SG1 did 'the right thing', with one exception. Jack should not have let the leader hit the iris. I feel that in this case Jack was letting his emotions get the best of him, and not thinking levelly. Just think of all the technology they could have learned from him. It makes me want to cry every time they come so close to getting a bunch of new technology and it evades them like this.

  13. #33
    Second Lieutenant Willow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    I think that ultimately SG1 did 'the right thing', with one exception. Jack should not have let the leader hit the iris.
    *************

    Maybe so, but Alar already knew what would happen if an unauthorised person tried to come through the gate.

  14. #34
    First Lieutenant fair_nymph's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    But he couldn't have known for sure that he would immediately shut the iris (or that there would even be time for that). He was going to die if he remained anyway. Short and sweet is better, if he has to die.

  15. #35
    Second Lieutenant QuiGonJohn's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
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    277

    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    Another good episode. I liked the conflict between Jack & Daniel, and that Jack sees he was wrong. Also, as already stated, no prime directive here on Stargate.

  16. #36
    Second Lieutenant Perriman33's Avatar
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    May 2005
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    Cornwall- Home of the Pasty People
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    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    I enjoyed this one but the way it worked out was kinda weird. I thought they were too quick at the start to jump in and help with the fighting. And once they had found out they may be on the wrong side they went out of their way to destroy them. Rene A was very good in his part and the technology was brilliant. I felt a bit uncomfortable watching some of it though, maybe it was a bit close to how things are in the real world!

  17. #37

    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    I just watched this episode, and I agree that it was very thought provoking. One thing that noone here has considered, though, is the possible future ramifications of any alliance, had one been formed; What do you think would have happened to that alliance once Alar and his people discovered that the entirety of Earth were also "breeders"? How long would that alliance have lasted before Alar turned on Earth as well?

  18. #38

    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    Wow strange episode, Jacks dark side came out at the end when he said close the iris and thump, anyway good epsiode to the new year!

  19. #39

    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    A very disturbing episode indeed, but I feel that Jack has shouldn't interfere with other races just because he can do it. He should have just left them alone instead making himself feel whether or not he had done the right thing.

  20. #40
    Major Metarock Sam's Avatar
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    2,415

    Default Re: The Other Side (402)

    This episode dealt with the fact that O'neill is afterall a military man and as he was slightly succumbed by the technology aswell as the way these people pretended to be helpless he didn't realise that he was on the wrong side. This also happens in Scorched Earth however with a little less shouting at Daniel. He then makes up for his mistake fro getting rid of the basicly Hitler if he was a clone. The amount of people that the man had orderd killed would probably have been thousands if not more so Jack closing the Iris to in effect kill Alar justifies itself.
    Oh Yes the Sam is Back and hes more Sci-fied up than ever !!!!!!!!!

    Coming Soon a new Banner from Me

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