Ancient Backstory confusion

[Thermonuclearboy]

The backstory is confusing me. Let me see if I've got it right...

There once were a people called the Alterans who lived in distant galaxy. Some of them migrated to our galaxy and became the Ancients. Eventually they learned to Ascend and became the Ascended. Meanwhile, back on their homeworld, the Alterans who remained behind also learned to Ascend and became the Orii. Is that it?

It's theorized that the Ancients somehow seeded the planets they encountered so that humanoid life would evolve - eventually giving rise to the Tauri, among others. So did the Orii do something similar back on the Alteran homeworld?

The history of the Ancients gets more and more convoluted the more we learn about it. I mean, where does Atlantis fit in with this? Will the Orii show up in the Pegasus galaxy too? Could the Alteran homeworld actually be IN the Pegasus galaxy, and maybe the 'Lanteans were trying to get home?

I'm very confused. Can I be helped?

[Iggep]

The backstory is confusing me. Let me see if I've got it right...

There once were a people called the Alterans who lived in distant galaxy. Some of them migrated to our galaxy and became the Ancients. Eventually they learned to Ascend and became the Ascended. Meanwhile, back on their homeworld, the Alterans who remained behind also learned to Ascend and became the Orii. Is that it?

It's theorized that the Ancients somehow seeded the planets they encountered so that humanoid life would evolve - eventually giving rise to the Tauri, among others. So did the Orii do something similar back on the Alteran homeworld?

The history of the Ancients gets more and more convoluted the more we learn about it. I mean, where does Atlantis fit in with this? Will the Orii show up in the Pegasus galaxy too? Could the Alteran homeworld actually be IN the Pegasus galaxy, and maybe the 'Lanteans were trying to get home?

I'm very confused. Can I be helped?

You have it generally right. The Alterans had a schism and it appears that those who became known as the Ancients left that galaxy and came to the Milky Way, where they seeded life prior to the plague striking and wiping out virtually all life. We believe, now, that the plague was introduced by the Ori somehow. In any event, it was at that point, when virtually all life was detsoryed in our galaxy that the Ancients left for Pegasus, and seeded life there. Apparently some Ancients remained behind in the Milky way and used the "weapon" on Dakara to re-create life in the Miky Way.

I think it's clear now that the Alteran race started in a third galaxy, since we found out in Origins that the Ori did not know about Pegasus or our galaxy because of the shielding.

[tearsintherain]

sorry but i just don't get the timeline. there is repeated mentioning and viewing of shared myths and gods, but it doesn't make sense given the timelines. you cannot "seed" a galaxy of thousands of stargates and populations in a short 300-400 years, but we keep seeing things like norse mythology, early christian, celtic, etc spread out all over. how exactly did this happen? its highly unlikely the celts on earth developed their mythology and language at the exact same time as the celts on another planet.

its also a bit ridiculous that every human being in the universe speaks modern day english, in both our galaxy and atlantis and the orii galaxy.

oh well, once you just kinda accept the timelines don't make any sense and that english-speaky is a plot convenience its still fun

[Peoples_General]

Its also rediculous to have humans speak different languages all the time and you having to watch a Sci-Fi show reading subtitles. Not to mention all the interpreters they'd need to communicate with off-Earth humans. So that SG-1 and SGA can talk to all those different people.

[kirmit]

wot are u on about?!? 300-400 years? Life was reseeded over thousands maybe millions of years, wot i think is that at sumpoint whilst the ancients were in pegasus they came back and checked the plague woz gone then reseeded and returned to pegasus. The reason so much mythology is spread across the galaxy is because it seems earth is like a stopping ground for all aliens and all those myths got told on earth at sum point, spread and developed and adapted around earth.

[Iggep]

The Alterans/Ancients are believed to have left their galaxy, and came to ours about 50 million years ago. They started building the stargates and seeding life. So at some point after that is when the plague hit. We know it had to have been a large interval of time after the Ancients seeded life because the plague wiped out all life, as explained in the first Episode of Atlantis--not just the Ancients. It was then that they travelled to Pegasus, seeding life there as well.

Of course we don't have an accurate time line to work with, but we can infer some things with the available clues. Instead of the 300-400 years you believe these things happend in, there are millions and millions of years with which to work from. For instance, the Ancients didn't come back to the Milky Way until about 10,000 years ago. So we know that between 50 million years ago and 10,000 years ago all this transpired. That's a pretty sizable period of time.

[Eirik]

I do not disagree with the point about the proliferation of the English language. However, I tend to take it as a given that sci-fi tv shows while speaking English on the TV are actually speaking some other language. Working through all the translations and everything would get tiresome. I loved the approach that Farscape took with the translation microbes. However, you need only mention it here and there but not every episode. Still, the English point is salient.

I am not sold 100% on the point that the ancients went to the Pegasus after the Milky Way had been poisoned or whatever. I suspect that the 'Ancients' were in fact scattered throughout the universe to elude the Alterans. The universe is so vast that the 'Ancients' could actually settle a galaxy, altering the composition of life dramatically, without the Alterans ever going to that galaxy to notice the evidence of their presence. This tends to suggest that the main concentration of the Alterans was/is extremely far away from the MW, contrary to the Pegasus.

Regardless, there is another timeline point that troubles me more than this timeline question.

In that SG-1 season where Daniel Jackson was ascended, there was an episode where the team found an 'ancient' buried in the ice of Antarctica. She revived. But, all Earth folk there were infected by something. She healed most of them but died from the strain of doing so. Anyway, it was said in the show that she was over a million years old. It seems that she infected our fearless team, suggesting the plague took place over a million years ago.

At the end of Season 8, we learned from Anubus, of all people, that the weapon that destroyed the replicators was ironically the device that was used to re-seed life (but what kind of life?) in the galaxy. That such a device could affect any planet with a stargate, I have no problem with seeding a galaxy in 300 to 400 years. Humanity manufactures thousands of automobilies a year, so the 'Ancients' should be able to manufacture thousands of gates and deploy them. If however, 'reseeding' also entails Terraforming, then 300 to 400 years does not sound reasonable. This might make for an interesting thread to pursue in the Stargate universe: why so many human compatible planets?

The scattered fugitive Alterans, the 'Ancients', probably other off-shoots, theory might also explain why 'Ancients were overcome by the Wraith in the Pegasus galaxy. Spread thing, they lacked the industrial base and military logistics to defeat the Wraith, who may have learned much of their own ways from those of the 'Ancients'.

Well...cool stuff! This post is getting kind of long in the tooth.

Eirik

[Iggep]

The Alterans ARE the ancients. What we don't know is if the Ori are also Alterans. I suspect they are though, because that would make the backstory somewhat neater in appearance. I suspect what happened is that prior to 50 million years ago the Alteran race had a schism, splitting into two large groups based on their differing philosophies. Those that became known as the Anicents left their ancestral galaxy and travelled to the Milky way. Those that became known as the Ori remained.

We know that the Alterans/Ancients fled the Milky way and travelled to the Pegasus galaxy because it was explained in the first episode of Atlantis. The rest of the story we know relatively well enough to know that the timeline works just fine. Everything we know of the Ancients thus far transpired between 50 million years ago and 10,000 years ago.

And the episode you refer to is Frozen, which you might want to rewatch. They speculated the woman was as old as the Antarctic gate, which they believed was around 50 million years old.

[keppiezbt]

i only get confused b/c of the gaps in the history and how they havent explained a lot of things they brought up....

here is the best i can figure out:

a long long time ago.....the alterans (ancients) left the ori galaxy b/c they hada schism with what to do with their supreme tech (as daniel said last week, he just cant figure out why the ori want to be viewed as gods. its one thing to want to share knowledge but why want to be a good)

the ancients come to the milky way and start planting stargates and life all around....

then the plague comes and wipes out all life some 10 million years ago and some ancients flee on atlantis

the remaining ancients reseed life in the galaxy...

life grows...

over in pegasus, they do a bunch of stuff until 10,000 years ago they got their ass kicked by the wraith and came back here.... (while there they learn the secrets to ascension)

and we now knowthey they knew the ori ascended too and used their powers to protect us from "origin"

what remains a secret is: whats the deal with that alliance of 4 races? who started the plague? (was it the ori?) and what happened to the ancients when they came back to earth?

[Iggep]

what remains a secret is: whats the deal with that alliance of 4 races? who started the plague? (was it the ori?) and what happened to the ancients when they came back to earth?

Well, the short answer is we don't really know a lot about it. But we can speculate! We know that the Alterans/Ancients came back to our galaxy around 10,000 years ago. We know that at that stage of their evolution they were still looking at ascension so they just didn't pop back onto Earth and ascend. So there must have been a period of time, however long, that they still lived and breathed in our galaxy. Evidently it was sometime during that period that the alliance was created. Presumably to share knowledge and help other advanced races toward some end.... ascension perhaps?

As far as the plague goes, all we have is speculation. Its odds on that it was caused by the Ori/Priors sometime around 50 million years ago.

[Eirik]

I re-watched Atlantis S01E01, which cleared some things up for me. I didn't realize that Ayianna from "Frozen" was the same women 'left behind' in this Atlantis episode. Given that Merlin returned millions of years after leaving her behind, its no wonder that they didn't look for her back at the outpost.

I don't have "Frozen" to re-watch (not soliciting...message to moderator). I looked at the Gateworld summary page.

[MarshAngel]

And the episode you refer to is Frozen, which you might want to rewatch. They speculated the woman was as old as the Antarctic gate, which they believed was around 50 million years old.

Yes they did speculate that, but thinking about it now I think they had to be wrong. While the gate itself may be from 50 million years ago that would place it at the time the Ancients arrived from their own galaxy to the Milky Way. But now we know that Aiyanna was around when the Ancients left the Milky Way for Pegasus so she could only have been around, at maximum, for as long as they were in Pegasus.. perhaps seven million< years.
But even one million years seems a little ridiculous for a person to be in stasis/frozen.

[Cycrow]

well, we know that at least some anicents left with atlantis several million years ago, but we dont really know the reason that they left

it could have been to flee from the plague, but it might just been to explore as we dont really know when they plague happened, it could have happened sometime after they left with atlantis

[Iggep]

well, we know that at least some anicents left with atlantis several million years ago, but we dont really know the reason that they left

it could have been to flee from the plague, but it might just been to explore as we dont really know when they plague happened, it could have happened sometime after they left with atlantis

We know beyond doubt thanks to Aiyana herself that the Alterans/Ancients left our galaxy precisely because of the plague. See Atlantis episode 1 for that info. We don't know exactly when, but it was many millions of years ago. Long enough for life to be seeded in both Pegasus and for the milky way to be reseeded with life, and for it all to evolve.

When the Ancients left our galaxy because of the plague they took Atlantis with them.

[Iggep]

Yes they did speculate that, but thinking about it now I think they had to be wrong. While the gate itself may be from 50 million years ago that would place it at the time the Ancients arrived from their own galaxy to the Milky Way. But now we know that Aiyanna was around when the Ancients left the Milky Way for Pegasus so she could only have been around, at maximum, for as long as they were in Pegasus.. perhaps seven million< years.
But even one million years seems a little ridiculous for a person to be in stasis/frozen.

Exactly. We don't know exactly when the plague hit, and they bailed from our galaxy. We only know that it had to have happened millions of years ago. Long enough for life to be seeded in Pegasus, for it to evolve, and for life to be reseeded in our galaxy and for that to evolve. When exactly it happened really doesn't matter, other than to say it happened millions of years ago.