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Thread: Anubis

  1. #1
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    Default Anubis

    One thing I don't get about Anubis. He was "1/2" ascended and the others allowed to do only the things he could've done as a regular goa'uld, right? Well, when he discovered the ancient dna device he used on Khalek, why didn't he descend himself and use it on himself. That way he could've fully ascended without the help of Oma and apparently the others would've have stopped him. They themselves used a similar machine on Atlantis to ascend after all. Plus they didn't interfere with his plans with Khalek after all, so it makes more sense that he would've used it on himself.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Anubis

    whoops, should've put this in the SG-1 section, sorry

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Anubis

    No worries!

    Just moved the thread,and left a redirect,so hopefully you'll get some replies soon.
    The places to "Gate" to during Outages for updates and info:

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Anubis

    NOBODY has any opinions on this? Come on people

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Anubis' half-form was the best of both worlds: the benefits of ascension (effectively immortal) without the downsides (having to play by the rules).

    Ascending himself would be the dumbest thing he could do.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Anubis' half-form was the best of both worlds: the benefits of ascension (effectively immortal) without the downsides (having to play by the rules).

    Ascending himself would be the dumbest thing he could do.
    Anubis had to "play by the rules" because the others sent him back only 1/2 way. Remember in Lockdown when Daniel said that Anubis could only do the things he normally could've done as a regular goa'uld. Anything outside that would've incurred the wrath of the others. Being fully ascended he could'e effectively gone anywhere and done anything. He wouldn't need a body to escape earth since a fully ascended would've just activated the gate and went through it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    Anubis had to "play by the rules" because the others sent him back only 1/2 way. Remember in Lockdown when Daniel said that Anubis could only do the things he normally could've done as a regular goa'uld. Anything outside that would've incurred the wrath of the others. Being fully ascended he could'e effectively gone anywhere and done anything. He wouldn't need a body to escape earth since a fully ascended would've just activated the gate and went through it.
    He would have to play by the rules of the Ascended, and rule numero uno is "Do not interfere"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    He would have to play by the rules of the Ascended, and rule numero uno is "Do not interfere"
    You seem to forget the ascended beings that lived outside the rules. Orlin for one, Oma, Merlin, and well pretty much all the Ori.

  9. #9
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    You seem to forget the ascended beings that lived outside the rules. Orlin for one, Oma, Merlin, and well pretty much all the Ori.
    Except they didn't live outside the rules (except the ori, but they do not live in our galaxy). Orlin was punished by the Ancients for his interference. Merlin was kept under supervision but the Ancients did realize they needed a weapon against the ori. Oma Desala was punished for her interference.

    In these cases low-level interference was allowed because it didn't weigh against their punishment.

    Anubis was already in the sweet spot he wanted: He has ascended powers in the form of immortality and being an energy creature, yet is free to do as he wants.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Anubis was already in the sweet spot he wanted: He has ascended powers in the form of immortality and being an energy creature, yet is free to do as he wants.
    If that was true, why didn't he just activate the stargate in SGC as an ascended being and leave? Why did he need a body?

  11. #11
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    If that was true, why didn't he just activate the stargate in SGC as an ascended being and leave? Why did he need a body?
    It seems that Ascended cannot exist in our plane of existence for extended periods of time. It's difficult to tell since actual Ascended never stayed for more than a brief moment.

    Even so, Anubis wasn't fully bound to his Goa'uld origins, as he could develop much more powerful shields and weapons than other goa'uld and was able to develop things like mind probes to download asgard information. It seemed like it was bound to a theoretical and not an actual limit.

    But like i said: If anubis ascended again he'd have to play by the rules of the Ascended. One can argue that his plan was to enact something similar to the Ori: Having people worship him to gain enough power to challenge the Ascended, since the Khalek cannot be controlled apparently and i don't think he would like sharing power. Alternatively, with some time, he could've figured out a solution in some other way, like travelling far away enough that the Ascended may not be troubled by his actions. After all, he still had all his Ascended knowledge: he just couldn't act upon it unless he would've known such things as a goa'uld.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    It seems that Ascended cannot exist in our plane of existence for extended periods of time. It's difficult to tell since actual Ascended never stayed for more than a brief moment.

    Even so, Anubis wasn't fully bound to his Goa'uld origins, as he could develop much more powerful shields and weapons than other goa'uld and was able to develop things like mind probes to download asgard information. It seemed like it was bound to a theoretical and not an actual limit.

    But like i said: If anubis ascended again he'd have to play by the rules of the Ascended. One can argue that his plan was to enact something similar to the Ori: Having people worship him to gain enough power to challenge the Ascended, since the Khalek cannot be controlled apparently and i don't think he would like sharing power. Alternatively, with some time, he could've figured out a solution in some other way, like travelling far away enough that the Ascended may not be troubled by his actions. After all, he still had all his Ascended knowledge: he just couldn't act upon it unless he would've known such things as a goa'uld.
    Wait, if that was so, then why didn't the ancients stop him from using the weapon he found in Redemption when he tried to blow up the Earth stargate. Anubis knew it was an ancient weapon, he obviously knew what it did and how to activate it. Seemingly from knowledge he had of it as an ascended being, and yet it was activated and it was only by sheer luck O'Neill managed to hitch it to a 302 and fly it away that saved earth. Ascended ancients don't seem to have a problem existing on our plain for brief moments either, Shifu shoots that theory down. He was able to exist for an entire episode in "humnan" form, and so was the ancient from Sanctuary who came to Atlantis with John.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    Wait, if that was so, then why didn't the ancients stop him from using the weapon he found in Redemption when he tried to blow up the Earth stargate. Anubis knew it was an ancient weapon, he obviously knew what it did and how to activate it. Seemingly from knowledge he had of it as an ascended being, and yet it was activated and it was only by sheer luck O'Neill managed to hitch it to a 302 and fly it away that saved earth.
    Anubis could've found it as a goa'uld and figured out how to use it. Same goes for his mothership which used the Goa'uld eyes, eyes which the Goa'uld could've figured out. Hence the "theoretical" limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    Ascended ancients don't seem to have a problem existing on our plain for brief moments either, Shifu shoots that theory down. He was able to exist for an entire episode in "human" form, and so was the ancient from Sanctuary who came to Atlantis with John.
    Both cases are very short-term compared to Anubis' many years in (partial)ascended form. We know that the woman from Sanctuary lived away from others so she could probably return to the Ascended realm to recharge, and Shifu was on earth for an undetermined amount of time but certainly not years.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Another thing everybody seems to have forgotten here is that Anubis can't be "dead" or ascended since he was one of Ra's Jaffa in the original movie

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    Another thing everybody seems to have forgotten here is that Anubis can't be "dead" or ascended since he was one of Ra's Jaffa in the original movie
    It was not the actual goa'uld.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Anubis

    At any rate, the real point is, like Daniel said in Flesh and Blood, "The ascended rule book was getting hard to understand." Generally speaking, in a war, rules or no rules, they tend to be forgotten about since the only objective is achieving ones goals. The ori and ancients seem to disregard the rules when it suits their needs. Oma helping people ascend, orlin warning earth about the Ori, Merlin taking human form retaining his knowledge and powers, Morgan telling Daniel where to find the weapon then following them to the ori galaxy, etc., etc.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Anubis

    I almost forgot a few things. Let's not forget the ones who built various "DNA" machines not only on Atlantis but throughout the MW to artificially ascend. Granted on Atlantis it was done as a means to escape death at the hands of the wraith, and for arguments sake, let's say that the ones in the MW were made after they returned to earth at the end of the war, at that point it was moot. I mean yes, they were still human so they could do whatever they wanted, but to try to artificially ascend was in essence "cheating" which renders Daniel's argument that if one is to ascend they need to do it on their own, "to prove you deserve to be there." What about the "head suckers" they left behind? It's never mentioned whether they were put in place before their ascension or after. Whatever the case, it could be argued that, if it was done after their ascension, that they were interfering but allowing anybody to come along and have access to all their knowledge, at least IMHO.

  18. #18
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    At any rate, the real point is, like Daniel said in Flesh and Blood, "The ascended rule book was getting hard to understand." Generally speaking, in a war, rules or no rules, they tend to be forgotten about since the only objective is achieving ones goals. The ori and ancients seem to disregard the rules when it suits their needs. Oma helping people ascend, orlin warning earth about the Ori, Merlin taking human form retaining his knowledge and powers, Morgan telling Daniel where to find the weapon then following them to the ori galaxy, etc., etc.
    I don't understand the point you're trying to make?

    Oma helping people ascend was fine because the level of interfering was pretty low: basically if people were capable of ascending anyway, they'd ascend. Oma only gave them a leg-up so to speak.

    When it comes to machinery, keep in mind that what we've seen of it was all made in Pegasus. The original Ancients, who also probably made up most of the collective, may not have liked that but preventing it's use is interference in itself.

    Thirdly, when it came to Merlin, Orlin, Morgan the Ascended basically didn't want to intervene, even if they did want to help. Merlin was put under supervision, but what he did he did as a human not as an ascended being, so it technically was according to the rules. Orlin descended himself and paid the price himself so no punishment was needed. Morgan hinted at things that Daniel probably could've figured out anyway, but was punished for interfering too far. She did make an effort to hide herself which probably helped in how far she was able to go. Keep in mind that she ultimately suffered the same fate as Oma: perpetual battle. So although she intervened, she also was punished for doing so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    throughout the MW to artificially ascend.
    There were no such devices in the Milky Way. The one machine used to artificially ascend was modified by Anubis, who used his own DNA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    but to try to artificially ascend was in essence "cheating" which renders Daniel's argument that if one is to ascend they need to do it on their own, "to prove you deserve to be there."
    The ascension machine kills you. You still need to be mentally able to ascend, in order to ascend. The same goes for Oma's help. These machines make it easier, but ascension itself is still something you have to do on your own.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    What about the "head suckers" they left behind? It's never mentioned whether they were put in place before their ascension or after. Whatever the case, it could be argued that, if it was done after their ascension, that they were interfering but allowing anybody to come along and have access to all their knowledge, at least IMHO.
    Before of course. Why would they leave such machines at all? They were clearly made for their own use and after they died out, were left behind.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Anubis

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    I don't understand the point you're trying to make?
    The point I was trying to make is a handful of ancients that we know of chose to interfere as they saw fit, and did so quite frequently. When you reach such as an advanced state of technology and development as the ancients did, you can pretty much make up your own rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Oma helping people ascend was fine because the level of interfering was pretty low: basically if people were capable of ascending anyway, they'd ascend. Oma only gave them a leg-up so to speak.
    "....was fine"???? Let's not forget it was because of Oma's interference that Anubis became so powerful. Capturing Thor, downloading his mind, and gaining access to Asgard that then later allowed Ba'al to capture Adria and implant her with a clone of his symbiote.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Thirdly, when it came to Merlin, Orlin, Morgan the Ascended basically didn't want to intervene, even if they did want to help. Merlin was put under supervision, but what he did he did as a human not as an ascended being, so it technically was according to the rules. Orlin descended himself and paid the price himself so no punishment was needed. Morgan hinted at things that Daniel probably could've figured out anyway, but was punished for interfering too far. She did make an effort to hide herself which probably helped in how far she was able to go. Keep in mind that she ultimately suffered the same fate as Oma: perpetual battle. So although she intervened, she also was punished for doing so.
    Merlin may have been in a human body, but he used knowledge he attained as an ascended being, or did you forget Morgan conceeding the fact that he "cheated"????

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    There were no such devices in the Milky Way. The one machine used to artificially ascend was modified by Anubis, who used his own DNA.
    You seem to have forgotten about the device that Niirti was using to make an advanced human to be her new host.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    The ascension machine kills you. You still need to be mentally able to ascend, in order to ascend. The same goes for Oma's help. These machines make it easier, but ascension itself is still something you have to do on your own.
    Perfect example of yet another piece of ancient tech that was failure because they were facing the threat of being wiped out, and couldn't devote the resources to make it work. Like I said, it was an "attempt" to artifically ascend as a means to escape the war. Given time, like all the failed inventions in Pegasus made as a means to fight the wraith it could be made to work properly.

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