When did the ancients ascend? (Spoilers? I hope not)

[Orii]

Spoilers... well, if you haven't watched anything in the past year or two, don't go reading this or any other thread.


So when did the ancients ascend in the timeline? There was a S1 SGA episode about the energy being that the ancients were studying. The implication was that they were researching it to learn about ascension. Besides, they didn't really need stargates and city-ships and stuff if they were already ascended, so that puts it well after they arrived in the MW, and after they arrived in Pegasus. In fact, it wouldn't make much sense for some ancients to leave the city through the stargate if they had already learned to ascend. At the least, it wouldn't make sense if they were fighting a war with the wraith if most of them had already ascended.

So that puts it probably sometime after they left Pegasus back for Earth. That was ~10,000 years ago. Pretty recently, isn't it? I always had the feeling during the various shows that the ancients had left coporeal form a long, long time ago. Well before the Go'auld came into power, since they seemed to "find" ancient technology here and there to base development on (naquadah, stargates, sarcophagus, etc.).

Did Thor say the ancients had left that part of the universe a long time ago, or am I confusing that with the movie Contact? lol.

That brings up another question that's been bugging me. It's late and I'm still working and my brain is sizzling, so pardon me if this is a stupid question, but weren't the Ancients one of the four great races in the alliance Thor mentioned in "The Fifth Race?" If so, why do the Asgard act like they just stumbled across some ancient knowledge in the repositories and can't figure a lot of it out. If there were once in an alliance, whey didn't the ancients just teach them?

OK, enough rambling for now.

[Vicious]

This is a very simple answer. There were ascended ancients in the pegasus galaxy. The ancient playing God on the one planet (the hot chick that had a thing for sheppard) said that she grew up on the planet she was currently inhabiting and had been to atlantis many times. It wouldn't make any sense for her to leave the pegasus galaxy, ascend, and come back to get in trouble. SPOILERs BeloW!!!!




We also see in an upcoming episode that the ancients had a planet whos time had been dialated so they could ascend in a rational time. This planet is on pegasus and inhabited by ancient ancestors.


Voila! there ya go. The ancients that went back to earth had not ascended due to some unknown factor and went back to milky way. Janus was one of these ancients and put his timeship in the milky way where it was found by oneill and sg1 last season. So sometime about 10000+ years ago, the first ancients to ascend, ascended.

And yes, the ancients were one of the four races in the alliance. The four members were.

The Asgard!

The Furlings (oooh, sounds cute)

The Ancients (yes, the asgard called them that)

and

The Nox (Furry, but not as furry as the furlings)

Any other questions?

[Orii]

Yeah, just the one about the Asgard knowing the ancients. If they were allies, why do the Asgard act as if all the new ancient technology being found is a bag full of goodies? Wouldn't the ancients have told them about a lot of this stuff, if not explaining it to them?

And didn't Thor say that the ancients had long ago downloaded the repository of ancient knowledge but haven't been able to scratch the surface much? What... did they go rummaging through ancient stuff after they all ascended or left the MW or something? Seems weird I guess. Maybe they meant that the ancients gave them the repository when they left for good, but didn't try to explain it all (above the Asgard, apparently).


I guess the whole Go'auld/Asgard/Ancient/Pegasus timeline is just a bit fuzzy. We don't seem to have good dates for some things, but when making good guesses for various other things they don't seem to mesh that well.

[LORD MONK]

Don't try to figure out the timeline, for you will go nutts.

I think the Ancents ascended after they got to Earth. Only because that is when they died.

The Asgard probably don't know about Asgard tech. because the Ancients didn't share it with them like they don't share tech. with us. To a point.

[JanusAncient]

I don't know, if the Ancients ascension, can be timelined, we do know a great deal about them, but not enough. The research, that you are speaking of, is from the episode "Hide and Seek," it is discovered in Atlantis, so the Ancients could have been working on it before they got to Pegasus. Perhaps, they began studying ascension, neither in the Pegasus, nor the Milky Way Galaxies, they could have made a detour, before Pegasus, or ventured to some other galaxy, after they seeded the Pegasus Galaxy with life.

We know, that there are two sets of ascended Ancients, but we also know, that there are ascended beings not Ancient, this from the episode "Threads."

Spoiler:

In the episode "Epiphany," Ancient decendants are still ascending, inside of the Pegasus galaxy.

This is what I don't understand, when it comes to the Ancients ascending, how could they know of ascension, unless someone had already done it, but then again, it could have just been a scientific theory, of some wacky Ancient, attempting to further their understanding of the universe.

We donot yet know, if there are anymore ascended Ancients out there, but we do know that at least one ascended before they returned to the Milky Way, this being Chaya, who stated that she only ascended, just prior to the Wraith attacking her people.

[Heaven]

***may contain spoilers****

i dont get why people generally assume the asgard are so old
the ancients left mw millions of years ago.. the asgard cant be that old!
my guess is the asgard grew up in the mw or their galaxy is a satelite galaxy to mw thats why they say "there was once an alliance of 4 great races in the galaxy".
when the asgard became advanced and began exploring the galaxy the ancients were long gone but the stargates and other ancient stuff were left behind, thats why the asgard labeled them "ancients".
when the ancients returned to mw from pegasus they introduced themselves to the alliance races as "the ancients" so they would know who they were (the ancient writing in the meeting place said "we are the ancients"), thats also why chaya who didnt leave pegasus didnt realize why they call them ancients.
i guess the alliance was formed by the ancients who returned from pegasus in order to protect the humans in mw, thats why the asgard formed the "protected planets treaty".
the ancients were hoping that once the humans in mw will become advanced enough they could entrust them with their "legacy" of the ancient repository of knowledge ("the place of our legacy").
now our understanding about what happened to the ancients after they returned to earth is a little vague, but in avalon daniel suggests that some of them may have left our galaxy rather than ascend/blend in with the population, thats why the asgard say "the ancients moved on from our region of space long ago", and orlin said "i dont know where the rest of my kind are".

so why dont the asgard know all that much about ancient technology? probably because the ancients weren't planning on rebuilding their civilization in the mw, they only left their teachings in the meeting place and the repository for the alliance races and ultimately for the humans of mw.

so when did the ancients learn to ascend? who knows maybe even before they came to mw in the first place, but definitely before they returned to earth. that energy being is not conclusive proof as you gotta admit its a pretty interesting creature who wouldnt want to study it? or rather contain it since it is kinda dangerous.
maybe ascension is a hard thing to learn as oma and orlin suggest its more spiritual than technical and thats why the mashur "dont know how" and those decendants of the ancients may have been people who simply couldnt ascend yet. think about it, 10 thousand years times whatever dilation factor is on that planet and not all of them ascended yet, in that long a time they may have even been regular humans at first.

[mindtwister]

Well I think most of the ancients that did ascend did so before they went to pegasus. It explaines this in season 6 finale when daniel finds the tablet that said that a plague swept the galaxy many learned to ascend the rest died out we now know that the survivors went to pegasus but the part about when they ascended still stands.

[@Li3n]

The Ascended Ancients didn't share their knowledge, so any ancient that wanted 2 ascend had to do it on their own. The plague might have caused them to want to ascend en-masse to escape it, as opposed to when they were safe and the most advanced race in the galaxy!
So they could have been studying it even if some of them did it eons ago!

Also as the Ori were Ancients they must have known about ascension even before they left the Ori galaxy!

[valha'lla]

Orri and ancients were once the same race i have heard so that means that from the sound of things when members of this race ascended they disagreed on the way they should act one sect the orri wanted to be worshiped as Gods and show people how to ascended and destroy all thoes who refused, the ancients wanted to allow natural devleopment and not to interfer with others and allow them to find their own path in life( hence not liking time machines). So these two sects were formed and the race split into the ancients and the orri.The ancients fleed to our galaxy to aviod the orri.

[IMForeman]

I think they ascended in 1995... we just missed them.

-IMF

[Michael Jansky]

Well, personally, from what I gather from the show, the answer that conflicts least with all established canon is that not all at once. There were very advanced Ancients millions of years ago, some of whom, presumably, have chosen to ascend then. The rest lived on, through the millenia (during which time their technology seemed to degrade somewhat - from the device at Dakara, millions of years old, to the rather mundane technology from the time of the first siege of Atlantis, ten thousand years ago). Aiyana, several million years old, was apparently in an ascension-capable state, though she succumbed to the plague in the end. Perhaps the mentioned technological setback was due to the plague, which is known to have almost driven the Ancients extinct. Likely many more ascended at this time to escape that fate. And, finally, some of the last to ascend were those that left Atlantis after the first siege (or at least some of them). Merlin and Morgan seem to be from one of the last batches. Oma is probably somewhat older. The Others, however, may come from the first wave which likely took place even before the Alterans first came to the Milky way untold millions of years ago. It is probably simultaneously with these first Ancients that the Ori ascended.

So, in short, what I think:

1st wave - Alteran galaxy, around the time of the schism that split the race into Ancients and Ori (perhaps the schism came about for this very reason - different positions on what is and is not allowed to ascended beings, which the Ancients solved by the non-interference policy as an answer to the Ori misusing their new power to posture as gods - so that's my take on non-interference, the Ancients wanting to prevent themselves from becoming what the Ori have become or from destroying half the universe openly opposing them); both Ancients and Ori ascend around the same time; ascension having been discovered when they still were one race united

2nd wave (with possible intermediary ascensions between this and the first) - Milky way galaxy, at the time of the plague and mainly to escape it

3rd wave (again with possible intermediaries) - Pegasus and Earth, around the time of the first siege of Atlantis

[Yipster]

I don't think they ascended at only one point, I also don't believe any and all could infact ascend. It was still something to achieve even among ancients. From the show's both SG1 and Atlantis. I think ancients had been ascending for a very long time but not all could, this lead to some experiments to assist those who struggled such as the machine in Atlantis.

I think they were aware of at least being capable of it even when they first fled the ori galaxy, the debate of acting like gods or not after ascension being the reason for the war.

So over the millions of years I'd say ancients had been ascending the entire time, just a few gifted ones and those who dedicated entire lives to it. not everyone can do that!. Of those who fled back to Earth not all ascended, some helped Earth build civilisation, others went to other worlds doing the same.

perhaps those knew the rules and chose to leave a legacy rather then just watch.

As for the Asgard, mentioned above, I think the Asgard have caught up to the ancients in some technology at least the final end stage tech. (forinstance ancients did not have interactive hologram tech, Asgard did)
Asgard can pass through Ancient shields, but i'm betting Asgard dont have the power gen tech. So the Asgard are in awe at what they don't yet have.

Someone mentioned the Ancients may have entered a stage of losing knowledge this seems to make sense. When you've lost so many worlds it would be the result even though they were waaay above earth tech even in the end it makes sense they were in a kind of Ancient version of a dark age.


They are ally's yes but I think its more like this, humans are to the Asgard what the Asgard are to the Ancients, Earth is in Awe with Asgard tech and
we gained some of it

Spoiler:

(and I doubt would have been given all of it had they not died)

. The Asgard were cared for and helped by the Ancients as Earth was helped by the Asgard (I'd say they did it for respect of the Ancients).

[Michael Jansky]

Someone mentioned the Ancients may have entered a stage of losing knowledge this seems to make sense. When you've lost so many worlds it would be the result even though they were waaay above earth tech even in the end it makes sense they were in a kind of Ancient version of a dark age.

Precisely! How else would one explain that not only have they made no real progress over the millions of years (apparently, judging by ancient Ancient technology compared to the newer things), but they in fact seemed to lose some of their more advanced knowledge (e.g. Dakara). One can only speculate on the reasons for this, on the other hand, I suppose that in such a long-lasting civilisation you're bound to have downs as well as ups...

[Atlantean 7921]

I don't think they ascended at only one point, I also don't believe any and all could infact ascend. It was still something to achieve even among ancients. From the show's both SG1 and Atlantis. I think ancients had been ascending for a very long time but not all could, this lead to some experiments to assist those who struggled such as the machine in Atlantis.

I think they were aware of at least being capable of it even when they first fled the ori galaxy, the debate of acting like gods or not after ascension being the reason for the war.

So over the millions of years I'd say ancients had been ascending the entire time, just a few gifted ones and those who dedicated entire lives to it. not everyone can do that!. Of those who fled back to Earth not all ascended, some helped Earth build civilisation, others went to other worlds doing the same.

perhaps those knew the rules and chose to leave a legacy rather then just watch.

As for the Asgard, mentioned above, I think the Asgard have caught up to the ancients in some technology at least the final end stage tech. [forinstance ancients did not have interactive hologram tech, Asgard did]
Asgard can pass through Ancient shields, but i'm betting Asgard dont have the power gen tech. So the Asgard are in awe at what they don't yet have.

Someone mentioned the Ancients may have entered a stage of losing knowledge this seems to make sense. When you've lost so many worlds it would be the result even though they were waaay above earth tech even in the end it makes sense they were in a kind of Ancient version of a dark age.


They are ally's yes but I think its more like this, humans are to the Asgard what the Asgard are to the Ancients, Earth is in Awe with Asgard tech and
we gained some of it

Spoiler:

(and I doubt would have been given all of it had they not died)

. The Asgard were cared for and helped by the Ancients as Earth was helped by the Asgard (I'd say they did it for respect of the Ancients).

The Ancients did have interactive hologram tech. Remember the episode when Daniel and Vala go to Atlantis and start talking to the hologram. Then the hologram turned out to be Morgan Lafay. The program was modeld after her and was meant to teach young children.

[MechaThor]

Well some of them must have started to ascend when in Pegasus since they made the ascension device in Atlantis and that time bubble sanctuary.

The Ancients did not all ascend at the same time one day, some most likely did it before the others and the early ones to do it most likely did it at the ends of their lives anyways. I would say that they started ascending before the Wrath war, but then stopped to try project the humans of the Pegasus galaxy. Then when all was lost some escaped the war via ascension and others returned to Earth to start a new life, latter ascending when they saw how different the Milkyway had become.

However when did the Ori ascend?

And when was the Alliance of 4 great races? I am assuming the Ancients returned to Earth around the Roman times? At this time the Goa'uld would have been going strong with Human hosts and the Asgard would of already been on Earth protecting the Norse culture of Northern Europe. So they could have met each other then? However the Asgard knew of Atlantis and had been to Pegasus (Lost Tribe). Therefore they might have known each other for longer, maybe with some of the Ancients having already returned to the Milkyway before the Wrath War, helping the Asgard fight the Goa'uld?