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    The Anti-Hero "Eh, he's/she's not THAT great" Thread

    This thread is for all five of us Stargate fans that don't love or even like any one or more of the main heroes of the two shows. Why don't you like him/her? What traits would you change? For the record, this is most definitely not a bashing thread.

    For instance, I'm not a big fan of Sheppard. I don't like his arrogance or what I perceive as impulsiveness. I can date this dislike back to "Hot Zone" with his blatant and unapologetic disregard for Weir's orders. He sort of made up for it, though, in "The Seige-II" when he stood behind her against Everett.
    Earth...steaks. There's a difference?

    #2
    Well...at the risk of having everyone hate me...I'm not a fan of either Rodney McKay or Sam Carter. McKay's rude, arrogant, egotistical attitude is annoying and grates on my nerves. As for Carter, she's become an expert in so many fields and for many seasons "saved the day" every single week (and now McKay does the same thing in SGA) that she's too perfect to be believable.

    Comment


      #3
      I wouldn't say I hate any of the main characters, but there are a number who simply don't do much for me.

      Jack of later seasons became (in my opinion) distant, bitter, and a bit of a jerk. He wasn't funny, he wasn't intelligent, and he wasn't fun to watch. If RDA had left after season 5, I might have been upset, but now... I think maybe it was time for him to move on.

      Can't comment on Mitchell as I'm too disenfranchised to watch the show anymore.

      I don't care one way or the other about Sheppard. He's too cocky, his "I only follow orders when I want to" attitude grates on my nerves and his sense of humor sometimes doesn't sit well with me. It seems too... scripted. He's still an okay character, he does add some good stuff and some of his jokes ARE funny, but I'm still kinda ambiguous about him. Which is a shame, because I LOVED Joe Flanigan on Cupid. Dunno what can be done to make him better, I think he's pretty much been stuffed into his niche for good.

      Teyla bores me. She's mostly there just taking up space and when she IS given something to do, it tends to be inconsistent and to make her look bad. She came across as very arrogant and rude in LfP and the only time I've found her remotely interesting was that brief bit in The Gift where
      Spoiler:
      she was possessed by a Wraith.
      That's it. An entire season worth of her and that was, for me, her best moment. Rachel needs better scripts and she needs to emote more. In a positive way, rather than the brusque, "I know what's best for everyone, dammit" attitude of LfP.

      Comment


        #4
        Rodney McKay. Bleh. In scenes with Shep or Zelenka he's fine. I adore McShep as a matter of fact cause of how DH and JOE work together. And the writing for the characters.

        I adore how Zelenka can get the ONE UP on Rodney alot. LOL
        **edited cause I hit the wrong key**

        Rodney grates on my nerves. And he's just very repetitious to me. I don't HATE him, but I don't miss him when he's not on alot. Like in POISONING the WELL.

        TEYLA Bugs me cause she's quite the hypocrite. Her words to Shep in HZ about what he did to Weir apparently to count for her when she usurps Shep's command status in LETTERS. She doesn't really serve a purpose. I can enjoy her with Shep when they let them do the friendship thing on the show though.

        Comment


          #5
          I guess that makes me fan #5. I'd have to say Rodney. I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED his brief appearances on SG1, but he is the main reason I don't care for Atlantis all that much. (well, there's the boredom, but that's for another thread ). In small doses he is a wonder! In large doses I get the uncontrollable urge to want to slap him senseless. And not in the good way.

          Comment


            #6
            Like Shadow, I don't hate any of the characters. Hell, I don't hate anyone in real life either, so there's no reason for me to waste that emotion on a fictional character. That said, there are several characters on Atlantis that don't do that much for me:

            -I never got attached to Shep. Maybe it's his attitude, maybe it's his humor, maybe it's that he's too similar to Jack, maybe it's that he's the "hero" and I like non-hero characters better.

            -Weir is the person that I should be relating to best on this show, but I'm not and I'm not really sure why that is. I guess I get this feeling like she doesn't do that much, that she stands around while others come up with ideas and implement them (see Siege 3 and the non-flashback parts of Intruder). It's very frustrating and I'd like to see more of her diplomacy, negotiation, translating skills, anything that gets the job done rather than having Rodney or Shep do it.

            -I want to like Carson more, but so far we've seen too much worry and hysteria and not enough of the smart, caring doctor that I know is there.

            -Likewise, I want to like Teyla more, but the writers don't seem to know where she's going yet.

            -Ford never grew on me, but he may now with his new arc.


            ...wow, that covered just about everybody on the show. That's scary. So who does that leave? McKay, who I adore, and wonderful, wonderful Zelenka. The Rodney of season two is starting to worry me a bit though...Gah I never win.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Seshat
              I guess that makes me fan #5. I'd have to say Rodney. In small doses he is a wonder! In large doses I get the uncontrollable urge to want to slap him senseless. And not in the good way.
              Absolutely! Sometimes Rodney hits the right mark with me--like in his interactions with Beckett. I love Zalenka and his ability to one-up McKay, but large doses of such snarky interaction gets irritating.

              And I adore Daniel Jackson, but I dislike when he talks super, super fast (hmm, McKay also does that).

              Unfortunately, the characters I do like are mostly in the background, which is my problem since I tend to look beyond the obvious lead characters in any fandom.

              Comment


                #8
                Beckett is too whiney for me. And he does the whole wide-eyed look of utter incomprehension too often. It's all TOO new, TOO weird, and TOO much for me. Cute guy and a sweet character... when he's allowed to be. But if they keep playing up the Trek riffs with him... bleah. Enough is enough. A joke is only funny the FIRST time.

                Weir... I dunno. She's really good sometimes and absolutely blah other times. It seems to depend on who's writing her dialogue. I love Torri and Weir has grown on me a bit, but there are times when she's just bloody frustrating. And with all the shippy stuff they're throwing at us now and her interactions with Simon in Intruder... I dunno.

                Like ToA, that pretty much leaves me with McKay and Zelenka. Although I'd like to throw Ford and Bates in there, too. Unfortunately, those two are kinda conditional. Ford was given almost nothing to do in season 1, but when he WAS, I loved it. It was like there were whole LEVELS to the character that were there, but we never saw them. As a fan, knowing that there is coolness that isn't being unleashed is very frustrating.

                And Bates is another victim of bad writing. When someone gets it right, it's awesome, but when they get it wrong ya just wanna beat the louse with a stick. *sigh* Still, I've decided I like both of them (and Weir a bit) despite the inconsistencies and maldevelopments. I'm very interested to see what they do with Ford and I really wish Bates would have some potential as more than a footnote in S2. But this is dislike thread, not a like one.

                Daniel doesn't do it for me anymore, either. I know characters have to grow and change and I know that he's been through incredible amounts of stuff, but he seems a lot more disconnected and officious now than ever before. It used to be I thought of him as simply absent-minded. Now I just get a vibe that he has more important things on his mind and YOU aren't one of them. "You" obviously being a generic term for... well, pretty much everything.

                Sam just depresses the hell out of me.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Now that's what I'm talking about. Let it all out, people.

                  Let me just say that even as a Teyla fan, I cringed when she put that ultimatum on Shep in LfP. I can't even watch that scene anymore.

                  Also, I hope Sam comes back as Sam, not that other person that's been on my TV for the last two seasons.
                  Earth...steaks. There's a difference?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by ToasterOnFire
                    Like Shadow, I don't hate any of the characters. Hell, I don't hate anyone in real life either, so there's no reason for me to waste that emotion on a fictional character. That said, there are several characters on Atlantis that don't do that much for me:
                    I think that's it--none of the characters are HATE-worthy; they're mostly two-dimensional right now.
                    -I never got attached to Shep. Maybe it's his attitude, maybe it's his humor, maybe it's that he's too similar to Jack, maybe it's that he's the "hero" and I like non-hero characters better.
                    Exactly. JF's a wonderful actor and mighty easy on the eyes. But he's a little too much like O'Neill. I don't mind that he's the main hero of the show, but it bugs me that ONLY he and McKay can save the day every week. Any little contributions from other characters are either TOLD to us or shuffled off to the side as unimportant. Guess there's only room for one action hero and one brainy hero. Everyone else is just background, like the scenery.
                    -Weir is the person that I should be relating to best on this show, but I'm not and I'm not really sure why that is. I guess I get this feeling like she doesn't do that much, that she stands around while others come up with ideas and implement them (see Siege 3 and the non-flashback parts of Intruder). It's very frustrating and I'd like to see more of her diplomacy, negotiation, translating skills, anything that gets the job done rather than having Rodney or Shep do it.
                    Another character I basically like but don't know what to make of her. I really hope the writers have her going out in the field to SHOW us her diplomatic and negotiating skills. But she's another one whose skills we're TOLD about, ie when she went to work on some translations--we didn't see it, we only heard about it.
                    -I want to like Carson more, but so far we've seen too much worry and hysteria and not enough of the smart, caring doctor that I know is there.
                    My personal favorite character but I have to agree with you and Shadow about him being too whiney. Enough already! We got it that he's the everyone sort of guy who's blown away by all this stuff. He needs to show some growth in character and move beyond the whiney hysteria and chronic complaints. I was pleased to see he didn't go all whiney when New!Ford shot at him in Siege 3 and he didn't stand around wringing his hands in Intruder. Maybe there's hope for him yet. I still resent that we SEE McKay and Sheppard (and to a lesser extent, Zalenka) accomplishing stuff, but we're only TOLD what Weir and Beckett have contributed. Why can't we ever see some of these "behind the scenes" accomplishments?
                    -Likewise, I want to like Teyla more, but the writers don't seem to know where she's going yet.
                    Another nail on the head! Teyla could be a great character but again, we see little depth. She's supposed to be the leader of her people, but she's rarely with them. She's great in battle, but the writers don't seem to know what else to do with her except have her parade around in skimpy outfits and smile a lot.
                    -Ford never grew on me, but he may now with his new arc.
                    Another pretty boy that the writers never knew what to do with at first. His new status shows a lot of promise so I'm not going to write him off yet.
                    ...wow, that covered just about everybody on the show. That's scary. So who does that leave? McKay, who I adore, and wonderful, wonderful Zelenka. The Rodney of season two is starting to worry me a bit though...Gah I never win.
                    McKay drives me nuts--I enjoy him in small doses but the fact that HIS BRILLIANCE saves everyone at the last moment every week is driving me away from the show (just like Super!Sam turned me off SG-1 for a few years). I don't want to watch The Rodney McKay Show or even The Adventures of John and Rodney. Zalenka's cool but he's taken over Beckett's role as Rodney's best friend, and his primary purpose seems to be to give McKay another avenue to vent his brilliant snark. This schtick is as old as Beckett's whiney complaints.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by kimaken
                      I don't mind that he's the main hero of the show, but it bugs me that ONLY he and McKay can save the day every week. Any little contributions from other characters are either TOLD to us or shuffled off to the side as unimportant. Guess there's only room for one action hero and one brainy hero. Everyone else is just background, like the scenery.
                      I see it as being slightly different: It's just the John Sheppard Show And Some Other People (tm). The simple fact is that ever since Hot Zone, it's been Sheppard who's always come up with the life-saving thingamabob that saves the day at the end. Sheppard with the gun; Sheppard with the gene; Sheppard with the Jumper; Sheppard with the MENSA test... is anyone else noticing a pattern here?

                      He's even encroching into areas that should be for the other characters, and that MENSA test bit really annoys me. McKay should've spotted that much faster than he did.

                      This Sheppard-centricness came even harder in The Intruder when it was he who took out an F-302 to do some delicate and sensitive work. Excuse me, but when did he get the chance to not only learn a totally brand-new aircraft that his gene doesn't respond to, but also get in enough flight time to become so well-versed in it that he can do something like that with surgical presicion and not miss a beat? Didn't the Daedalus have other, more experienced pilots onboard? Oh, wait. Their names weren't Sheppard. My mistake.

                      Originally posted by kimaken
                      McKay drives me nuts--I enjoy him in small doses but the fact that HIS BRILLIANCE saves everyone at the last moment every week is driving me away from the show (just like Super!Sam turned me off SG-1 for a few years). I don't want to watch The Rodney McKay Show or even The Adventures of John and Rodney. Zalenka's cool but he's taken over Beckett's role as Rodney's best friend, and his primary purpose seems to be to give McKay another avenue to vent his brilliant snark. This schtick is as old as Beckett's whiney complaints.
                      I see it as being a little different. Only on the rare occasions is McKay allowed to be the one to do his job and think of the solution. Lately it's been all Sheppard. In the beginning of the show it was Rodney who came up with the intuitive leap that let the rest of the characters do their thing and save the day. Now it's Sheppard and I don't like that. That makes 90% of the rest of the main characters totally suplurforous and unneeded.

                      My only complaints about Rodney is that more and more he's simply being used for comic relief and not for anything really substantial. The best McKay episode to date has to be Hide and Seek where he got to be both comic relief AND a major plot player (once he put the whine aside and got on with the job). I want to see more of that and I doubt we'll be seeing it any time soon.
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                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Cory Holmes
                        I see it as being slightly different: It's just the John Sheppard Show And Some Other People (tm). The simple fact is that ever since Hot Zone, it's been Sheppard who's always come up with the life-saving thingamabob that saves the day at the end. Sheppard with the gun; Sheppard with the gene; Sheppard with the Jumper; Sheppard with the MENSA test... is anyone else noticing a pattern here?

                        He's even encroching into areas that should be for the other characters, and that MENSA test bit really annoys me. McKay should've spotted that much faster than he did.

                        This Sheppard-centricness came even harder in The Intruder when it was he who took out an F-302 to do some delicate and sensitive work. Excuse me, but when did he get the chance to not only learn a totally brand-new aircraft that his gene doesn't respond to, but also get in enough flight time to become so well-versed in it that he can do something like that with surgical presicion and not miss a beat? Didn't the Daedalus have other, more experienced pilots onboard? Oh, wait. Their names weren't Sheppard. My mistake.
                        You have a point there. It is a LOT of Sheppard-to-the-rescue in every episode! Seems to me that Rodney is the BRAINS of the outfit and John is the ACTION guy who's also a mathematical genius AND has the best, most potent/effective ATA gene (no one else possessing the rare gene can even come close Sheppard's ability with it).

                        I'm not that in tune with the types of aircraft so I missed the fact that Sheppard was flying something he wouldn't be familiar with (that wasn't ATA gene-activated), but I think it was established in "Rising" that Sheppard could fly just about anything that was fly-able. Sort of like O'Neill, come to think of it...
                        I see it as being a little different. Only on the rare occasions is McKay allowed to be the one to do his job and think of the solution. Lately it's been all Sheppard. In the beginning of the show it was Rodney who came up with the intuitive leap that let the rest of the characters do their thing and save the day. Now it's Sheppard and I don't like that. That makes 90% of the rest of the main characters totally suplurforous and unneeded.

                        My only complaints about Rodney is that more and more he's simply being used for comic relief and not for anything really substantial. The best McKay episode to date has to be Hide and Seek where he got to be both comic relief AND a major plot player (once he put the whine aside and got on with the job). I want to see more of that and I doubt we'll be seeing it any time soon.
                        And I see Rodney doing it all, or else he AND John accomplish everything as a joint venture. And "everybody" loves it when Rodney whines and complains but hates it when Beckett does.... In "Hot Zone", Rodney suddenly became the medical expert, knowing more than Beckett (obviously Rodney reads ALL files and reports from the SGC while Beckett must not, since he appeared not to know all that much about the nannites or whatever they were...). Sure, John deployed the bomb that saved them all, but Rodney directed him to get it in his lab and THEN John figured out the rest from there. It was all genius Rodney in "Storm" and "The Eye" while John was the action hero of those eps. And Rodney, Grodin, and that other guy worked on that satellite station to help fight off the Wraith (not sure of the details as I was already tiring of the show by then and not paying as much attention), and Rodney thought of the nuclear bombs, which he'd given the plans to the Genii. So, Rodney did a lot, but you're also right that John ended up completing whatever task. I think it's a combination of Rodney's genius plans (that admittedly don't always turn out exactly as he thinks they will) and John's actions that save the day every week. But I agree with you, in the end the rest of the characters are simply superfluous.

                        Now it appears Rodney is becoming the comic relief, which used to be Beckett's other role besides "best friend and chronic wuss", but I don't think that will last long. He has done a lot of the comedic bits along the way,which were fine because McKay can be a pretty funny guy. However, the writers have a tendency to overdo it, which then makes Rodney (or anyone doing the comic relief of the ep) look like a buffoon. There needs to better balance and more fleshed-out characters of substance to make the show a true team adventure rather than just "John and Rodney Banter Their Way to the Rescue".

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ToasterOnFire
                          -I want to like Carson more, but so far we've seen too much worry and hysteria and not enough of the smart, caring doctor that I know is there.
                          With any luck that will change and he'll start to get used to all of the drama. I thought we were starting to see a new Beckett in Siege Part III when
                          Spoiler:
                          he was quick to suggest harvesting the Wraith enzymes from their corpses to save Ford.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by kimaken
                            There needs to better balance and more fleshed-out characters of substance to make the show a true team adventure rather than just "John and Rodney Banter Their Way to the Rescue".
                            That really describes my feelings about BOTH shows currently. Every time the writers stray too far from emphasizing the team aspect, whether or not the characters are working side by side or pursuing different story arcs during an ep, they seem to flail about and rely on comic relief to patch up the holes in the stories and cover the lack of thoughtfully developed characters. Small doses = very good. Used as a substitute/misdirection for poor writing = bad.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I think Weir should be more headstrong and actually lead the mission
                              gumboYaYa: you are all beautiful, your words and openness are what make that shine. don't forget how much talent love and beauty you all have.
                              so for now, peace love love love more love and happy, and thank you, thank you, thank you
                              love Torri

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