so everyone... comments on the eppy..
24 ships jumped. almost a 1/3 of the fleet, i didn't think that many would have jumped but guess there was more opposed to what adama was doin'.
what was up with that doc... he must have been another cylon model...
so how is Kara special...
what's gonna happen with anders and the rest of the resistance. will they die or will they join the fight against the cylons.
EJO did a wonderful job portrayin' Adama's grief over the loss of boomer. i dont think he even suspected she was a cylon til it was too late.
next weeks looks like there's gonna be a lot of action, but lookin' forward to it.
Another excellent episode!
So when they left Caprica in that Cylon craft did Boomer go with them? If so, it will be interesting to see what happens in regards to her in the next episode.
I was really impressed with the acting and writing around the cylon doctor, (the guy who was a gould pretending to be a Jaffa leader in SG-1) the idea of surgeries being done to you while you sleep is definetly creepy, but the kicker was the info on Starbuck's past-all of her fingers broken by abusive parents...that's harsh and dark, good stuff.
The real kicker was Adama Sr.'s comeback (as I'm sure it was everyone's favorite part). Fav. scene- (Throws notebook) "no one's gonna believe this crap, no one's that stupid." I always feel like Adama Sr.'s character is the only one on the show who represents how I would like the show to go. Also, I'm glad that Apollo didn't follow the Pres., the shot of her embracing her religous leadership and instantly being so out of it that she couldn't use a tape recorder...priceless.
After all those other tense episodes, I had to shift gears for this one.
Interesting plot development, yet creepy at the same time. I had read speculation in various places that the reason we weren’t seeing people was because the Cylons were rounding up survivors. Guess all the men just get a bullet to the head.
I was spoiled about Simon being a Cylon so no surprise there for me. Though I think I would have picked up on that anyway before it was revealed…..
Starbuck really did have a horrible childhood. I got the feeling in “Flesh and Bone” that her mother wasn’t somebody she remembered fondly. Though when Simon said all her fingers had been fractured in the same place, my immediate though was that dear old dad and his piano had something to do with that.
Hmm, maybe Anders is a Cylon. Yeah, I’m going to end up saying that so and so is a Cylon in ever episode, but I have to cover my bases. I just thought his sudden acceptance that Starbuck’s true mission to Caprica was a good enough reason for her to leave them behind was somewhat convenient. He just seemed like he changed his tune too easily for me – I’m of the belief that the Cylons are somehow invested in the Colonials finding Earth. Plus how did Simon know his name? But that’s just me looking for any excuse to peg someone as a Cylon. I’m sure the guy is as human as they come.
I thought they accepted Boomer being a Cylon a little too easy, even though they didn’t actually show us the scene in which they were actually informed.
Yeah, I didn’t think that many ships would jump with Roslin either. I still think Zarek is using Lee and Roslin to his benefit. Especially Lee since he is Adama’s son. What better person to have turn against Adama than his own son. Had to give a big sigh of relief when Lee came to his senses about putting out a statement instructing people to subvert his father’s command.
Powerful stuff there with Adama/Tyrol and then him breaking down over Boomer. Though I have some reservations if that was keeping with his character – in that he’d cry for Boomer even though she was a machine that he totally detests. Was he crying over the loss of whom he knew as Boomer or was it just pent up emotion from the betrayal of Lee and Starbuck and the situation facing him with a third of the fleet jumping away. I think RDM is going for the former, but I wanted to interpret it as the latter since he had just watched ships jump away and one of them carrying his son.
JB played Lee’s reaction to finding out his father was back was great. Very subtle. Same goes for EJO about having to accept that his son had betrayed him when he and Tigh were talking to Gaeta about them being fugitives. Fine job by KS as well. Shoot, even pretty boy playing Anders could act. The actors never seem to disappoint me on this show.
Hehe. Baltar was great. He just looked so “happy” that Adama was back on his feet that he just couldn’t hold back his “joy” as evident by all the “supportive” clapping.
Other than having to really slow down for this one, my major quibble was how this episode was directed. I don’t mind the jittery camera work that is ever present in BSG, but this guy had too much coffee when he filmed this.
Last edited by LoneStar1836; August 13th, 2005 at 02:18 AM.
IMO always implied.
I suppose an episode like this was always going to be an anticlimax after the first four mind-blowing events. Still there was interesting information about the cylons and their religious injunction to "be fruitful and multiply". However, it sounds like although they would like to multiply... they aren't terribly fruitful, hence the title of the episode. Who else thinks that this procreation for lurrve is going to end up being the cylon's undoing?
In the colonial fleet, the farm is really turning into a zoo. Should Lee and Roslin really be so trusting of Greek-mythology-spouting Zarek though? Furthermore, there is something quite frightening about people throwing themselves at Messiah Roslin at such short notice. Are human beings so easily led? Madam Priestess gave a rather shifty look which gets my vote for cylon candidate number 6. Well, not literally. Well, you know what I mean. Something's rotten in space methinks...
Lee, buddy... what have you got yourself into... Euuww... an ethical and moral slippery slide. Should've taken your cue from Billy. Just as well you did come to your senses. (I was about to throw something large in your direction) No thanks to Zarek or Roslin though...
Dad's alive... good to see you all choked up about it... but don't let Zarek choke you from behind.
Kara, girl... a boy in every port eh...? This one at least is kinda cute... and definitely several steps up from Mr Vice-President. Nah... I don't think he's a cylon... Hubs thinks he isn't either... he says he's complexion isn't good enough.
Zeus... yay... is back... Everyone is visibly relieved... two standing ovations on Mt Olympus no less... Loved his little moments with Tyrol and corpsified Boomer... Very weepy... lots of pathos... EJO has just made this role his own...
A good episode... lots of little emotional moments but can't wait for the next episode.
SO... my question of the day is... Is Starbuck pregnant?
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
Heh. Daddy is/was the artistic (read: bohemian) sort, mommy the puritanical. Unhappiness ensued, culminating Daddy's early death (or abandonment of family). Mommy transplanted resentment to Little Girl, reminder of the biggest mistake (read: Daddy). Which made Little Girl remember Daddy even more fondly, hence the piano-playing. Broken fingers could be the result of either punishment by Mommy or her stern discipline against the corrupting influence of music/art/Daddy.Originally Posted by LoneStar1836
Yeah, I'm gonna go with that story.
On the less fanciful side, this feels like one of the more "emotional" episodes. Three scenes stood out in particular.
My favorite was Lee's reaction to the news of Adama's recovery: relief that Dad is finally out of the woods, longing of being there with him, and finally reflection upon how Dad must be hurt by his actions. All those emotions flashed across JB's face within split seconds, ending with a sad little smile. Nice foreshadowing of Lee's refusal to denounce Adama; in fact, I couldn't believe he even considered the proposal in the first place.
Adama's breakdown was believable, yet strange at the same time. Believable, because physically and emotionally he was severely shaken by the gun-shot wound and the apparent betrayal by both Lee and Kara (and a third of the fleet). I'd like to think he was really crying over the loss of his son and surrogate daughter, but the flashback (and his prior exchange with Tyrol) made his grief seem personal about Boomer. This bugged me a little, since I failed to discern on any prior occasion a particularly strong emotional bound between the two. Nevertheless, it was well acted by EJO.
The farewell scene between Kara and Anders worked for me, then it didn't. The problem, I guess, was it dragged on for far too long. I can buy that people quickly form intense emotional attachment when the end of the world is upon them. And I can appreciate that, while saying goodbye, they each understood the unlikelihood of ever seeing each other again (that is, if they are both human, and I'd like to think they are). But my waterworks stopped some time before they get to the point where she promised to be back -- come on, not even I could be that much of a sap!
Dear Lord, I hope not! She really should have that second cut looked at, though -- I know I would. Not terribly fond of the Caprica storyline as a whole. Perhaps a lot of it had to do with my general antipathy to the whole baby farm idea -- it frankly grosses me out. And the "I am a pilot / No, you should be a mother" debate, while intellectually relevant, hits a bit too close to home for comfort. I genuinely cheered when Kara stabbed that cylon doctor with the broken mirror.Originally Posted by Easter Lily
Well, I suppose it's bound to happen sooner or later: an BSG episode I'm not too crazy about. On the plus side, I am very pleased by the return of the "old" opening sequence.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~ Oscar Wilde
Was anyone else half-expecting Kara to scream, "We will not be your axotl tanks!" as she stabbed Simon? Man, that was a great scene. When Starbuck smiles, you know something bad is about to happen. (I would also agree that Kara's father probably didn't have anything to do with her abuse. I hope.)
Does anyone else feel like Zarek is just "there" now? I think I preferred him giving speeches.
"It's not enough to survive. One has to be worthy of survival." -- William Adama
I actually liked this episode a lot, although I'm glad to see the Caprica thread winding up.
Of course I'm a big Kara fan and there was a lot of focus on her. Predictably she fell into bed with Anders right away. Poor Kara - looking for love in all the wrong places. There had been hints at her childhood being less than rosy but the reveal about all the fingers in her hands being broken - and then seeing Kara thrust them protectively under her body. Very angsty stuff.
I had avoided spoilers but it didn't take too much to figure out Kara was being cared for by Dr. Cylon. So that makes 5 models identified so far, right? They really didn't even try very hard to hide it from the audience which was probably for the best. The story still worked because it was such a darn creepy place where she was being kept. Very creepy. So if they stole her eggs then are we going to see lots of little Starbuck Cylons down the road? And what's so special about Kara?
Sure would have been nice to see how Helo convinced Anders's gang to accept CapricaBoomer. But probably would have taken the whole episode so *hand wave*, she's on board. I'm also not sure I'm buying the whole "Cylons can't procreate without love" thing. Hope the writers have a few more twists in that story.
I'm still trying to figure out all the rules on what Cylons know and don't know. CapricaBoomer has all the knowledge and memories of Leoben - that's clear from her conversation with Starbuck. But she hasn't "accessed" other data. Because she can't? Because she doesn't want to? If GalacticaBoomer's memories have now been downloaded then CapricaBoomer knows what she "did" to Adama. And about GalacticaBoomer's feelings for Tyrol.
Going to be some high drama when CapricaBoomer, Helo and Kara eventually show up on Battlestar. Can't wait for those scenes with Adama and Tyrol.
And speaking of Adama. Jeez, it's good to have him back. I really appreciate the depth that EJO adds to that cast. Like Adama, I had a hard time believing that 1/3 of the fleet went with Roslin. And Roslin is really starting to buy her own act. This is not going to end well.
I guess Starbuck and the gang are heading for Kobol so they'll meet up with Roslin's group first. I hope Lee redeems himself over the next few episodes because while I can understand his "principles" I have a hard time believing he's going to ultimately go along with Roslin as messiah for the people. I'm more and more thinking that the priestess is a Cylon. Just a lot of manipulation going on there.
One note. I thought Adama's scene with Tyrol - talking about Boomer and his feelings for a machine was just about perfect. And I thought it was in character that he would go look at her body - trying to figure things out. But I didn't buy the whole breakdown scene. Just too much.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...d_smallest.jpgLife is hard...and it's harder if you're stupid
Since I've started watching this series I yet to be disappointed. This last episode rocked. The performance by EJO was award winning as far as Iim concerned and also KS was excellent.
The cylon using women as breeding farms I'm sorry to say is something that has happened in our world history. Our history has demonstrated on numerous occasions that homo sapiens are the cruelist to each other.
I was glad the writers allowed Adama to finally grieve. How would we feel all that you thought you knew was a lie. And the people you love betray you.
BSG makes you think what would it truly be like if there were less than 50,000 people left on earth and you were fighting for survival.
This was a bit of a different episode compared to the first four of the season, but I liked it just as much. The only thing that really bothered me was how willing Anders and his group were to let Boomer into their camp, knowing she's a cylon. That just didn't make sense to me at all. I can see how they might talk to her, listen to her, use her for information, but there's no way in hell they would take her back to their secret camp...
I was so glad to see someone *finally* talk about the fact that Galactica-Boomer was as human to them as anyone else, until they found out she wasn't. I was so tired of the usual line (especially from Tigh) that "she's a machine, and that's all she ever was." NO! Obviously people cared for her, loved her, knew her as a friend and fellow pilot, and trusted her. It's not just cut and dry, good vs. evil. I'm so glad this was finally brought up, and it was so appropriate that Adama was the one to say it...
Oh man, I did! I've been reading the 'Dune " series of books since high school 100 years ago. When she walked in there and I realized that it was the women hooked up, it hit me!!! That was great!!Originally Posted by Redwall
Another thing that hit me was a section of Adama's scene with the chief. The dialog with: "Did you love her?" Chief:"I don't know...."
"If you think you loved her then you did. That's all love is really....thoughts."
That's almost word for word from a scene between Kevin Costner and Judd Nelson in the movie "Fandango". I nearly fell off my chair.
I also loved the line, "Zeus has returned to Olympus." Classic line.
Last edited by Sela; August 13th, 2005 at 10:44 AM.
I think this episode was sort of different then the others...I don't know why.
That doctor was really interesting I had a very small hunch that he was a cylon but a bigger one that he was just telling the truth.
And about the ships leaving the fleet, GOOD RIDANCE! Geez, its fine with me if they want to go back, just let em! I'm glad 2/3 of the fleet stayed.
Anybody else bothered by Starbuck's reasoning for attacking Dr. Cylon? When he called her Starbuck I caught it right away that would probably be the signal to her that everything was not as it seemed but the more I thought about it that doesn't make a lot of sense.
In the make-believe world she was living in she knew that Anders brought her in and that there were others there - couldn't they have called told Dr. Cylon that she is "Starbuck"?
There just seems to be so many ways the Doc could've connected the callsign to her that it was a shallow way out by the writers...
The whole Kara/Starbuck thing didn't bother me. What bothered me is that when Starbuck found out that Anders "died" she didn't ask for Helo or anyone else. To me that is the lazy writing since if Helo would have been dead too then we would have known that the Doc was a cylon.
She did see him with Six remember.Originally Posted by The Ringer
Signature oversized: Click to view.
I assumed Kara suspected Simon was a Cylon from the beginning and didn't want to give away information (hence the mum after slipping out "the president is a teacher" line). Although Starbuck certainly knew the Cylons knew Helo was there... so, erm, I don't know.Originally Posted by Dahak
The whole "all you need is love" angle was sort of corny, but was saved by being simply a concise statement of what we already knew about the Cylon beliefs.
"It's not enough to survive. One has to be worthy of survival." -- William Adama
That is a nice story.Originally Posted by Liebestraume
I was kind of piecemealing that post together last night and forgot to complete my thought – that I didn’t think it was her father per say but that his piano was involved in whatever twisted punishment her mother was dishing out. Me and my posting of thoughts after getting up at 7:30am, driving 200 miles in 4 hr, watching BSG, and then staying up till 4am to post about it. It’s a wonder any of my post made sense.Me too. I don’t think they could have stretched that any farther than they did. I think it was timed just right that those particular Caprica storylines were wrapped up. Now I can see them possibly returning to Caprica in the foreseeable future, but the Helo/Boomer running and Kara/arrow/Anders had run its course. Any more would have just been dragging out the storyline, imo.Originally Posted by keshouI absolutely agree that it’s not cut and dry about what these Cylons are. Ultimately I find them to fall on the side of evil, but Boomer and Leoben make for such sympathetic characters that I can’t help but feel for them and their “humanity”.Originally Posted by Nothlit
Tigh’s just being Tigh when he says those things. If he said something akin to what Adama said in this one, I’d be scared cause that is the last thing I’d expect to hear from him. That would be my clue to peg him as a Cylon.
People were in shock about Boomer. I don’t think they had had enough time to process those feelings in the first four episodes since hardly any time at all had passed. She had shot Adama, the man they all worship. How could she possibly be human in their eyes? This episode took place a week after the last one giving time for feelings to sink in that Boomer was more than a machine, especially for Tyrol and Adama, the two men most directly affected by her actions. Though last week’s episode showed Tyrol’s ultimate feelings for her in the end – that he cared for her. She was more than just a thing.
I really have to feel for CapBoomer who has to know what she is about to subject herself too by returning with Kara and Helo to the fleet (or in next week’s case Kobol). She loves Helo enough not to abandon him in the hopes that he won’t abandon her to the wolves if he can help it. Course her future with the Cylons doesn’t seem much brighter.
Me. If that is the only way to assure a successful conception and birth, then they are screwed (no the pun is not intended ). Boomer seems to be the only one so far capable of this. I truly think the Six in Baltar’s head loves him or she thinks she does, but I can’t see the other copies of her having such true emotions. I guess you have to worry about those men models as well, but do they really have to love the other person as deeply to have success……if not, then they could bypass the whole love thing, but maybe the love aspect is somehow connected to their desires to create beings with a true soul (if that is what they are trying to do in order to become closer to their god.) Interesting little wrench they have thrown into the Cylons’s plan I guess.Originally Posted by Easter Lily
And please no pregnant Kara, no little mini-me Karas, or biological Kara children eventually running around. If there are going to be any clones making an appearance, they better be the Lee or Helo variety. I hope the writers don’t have some lame excuse as to why Kara is “special”. If they are going to make something of this, I hope it fits nicely into the rest of the story. No wild lapses into soap opera land please.
IMO always implied.
It's not quite what I meant... although I can see what you're saying...Originally Posted by LoneStar1836
Correct me if I'm wrong but earlier on in the series, probably in the mini-series, I seem to remember Six telling Baltar that the invasion is some kind of "ethnic cleansing"... humanity has outlived its purpose and gone all corrupt and the cylons are now the "brave new world". Well, if they can only procreate by falling in love with humans, doesn't that mean that the whole ethnic cleansing agenda is now down the toilet. Won't they be having little hybrids running around? Not very homogenous... if you get my meaning...
(Just in case anyone thinks I'm being racist here, please don't go down that road okay... I'm of Asian extraction and my husband is Caucasian, so our daughter is a product of a cross-cultural combination.)
I think it will ultimately be the undoing of the cylons because their copies will eventually "turn on" them the way Caprica Boomer has, assuming that they are the large-scale conspirators that I believe them to be. I don't think the humans will ever defeat the cylons militarily so my bet's on "the love trap" to do the trick .
Hubs is convinced that Kara is pregnant or will become pregnant because if anyone has seen the something of the first series, Starbuck (Dirk Benedict) has a son through a rather mysterious woman, whom if memory serves, becomes the prodigious Dr Zee...And please no pregnant Kara, no little mini-me Karas, or biological Kara children eventually running around. If there are going to be any clones making an appearance, they better be the Lee or Helo variety. I hope the writers don’t have some lame excuse as to why Kara is “special”. If they are going to make something of this, I hope it fits nicely into the rest of the story. No wild lapses into soap opera land please.
As for me I'm not sure... I think Dr Simon has tampered with her ovaries but what he's done exactly... your guess is as good as mine.
Dang it... I do love a good mystery...
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
Ah, I see what you are getting at now. I was thinking more along the physical lines that if “love” was integral to their plan then they better have some other models scattered around that displayed that kind of emotion cause the Boomer models can’t do it all by themselves.Originally Posted by Easter Lily
I think you are right there. I haven’t seen the mini in quite some time but that sounds correct. Interesting. If that was their goal, then they should have zero use for humans in any capacity. Though, personally I also interpret “ethnic cleansing” of humans as also doing away with pure-blooded humans so hybrids are an acceptable if not desired outcome of the breeding program they are now engaged in. I think the Cylons feel some kind of connection to humans because they were created by them even though they don’t regard them with high esteem. Breeding with them allows them to come one step closer to their god which in their minds is the same god that created humans who in turned created them. It also allows the Cylons to get the “human” race back on track so to speak and back in step with god's plan. They are trying to become better “humans” than the humans themselves. Not sure if that makes any sense except to me cause I’m not really expressing myself very well. Sorry.
ETA: They want to experience some things that are uniquely human like love, yet are incapable in their current “form”. I remembered this scene at the end of Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down:
Six: She thinks she loves him now, that she can't live without him. Her passion is making her more resourceful.
Doral: It bothers you, doesn't it?
Six: We'll get them in the end.
Doral: No, it bothers you that you've never experienced it.
Six: (chuckles) You saw the way Helo was when we took her away? He was pathetic.
Doral: I can't help wondering what it would be like to feel that intensely. Even in his anguish, he seemed... so alive.
You can see that that disturbs Six and causes her to shed a tear. I thought this was a really good scene as far as helping to understand them. I almost think the Six in Baltar's head (if a Cylon implant) has somewhat created her own agenda with Baltar and might not quite be following the Cylon playbook to the letter with him. Here we saw some actually Cylons lamenting about who they are or specifically what they aren't.
You would think they would worry about that possibility.Originally Posted by Easter Lily
Do you mean the original models (like Boomer) will turn on the Centurions, etc. (the mechanized versions) and hope to integrate back into the human world or that the human/cylon hybrid babies will eventually turn on both the human model cylons and their mechanical counterparts?
There is absolutely no way that this will be a military victory for the Colonials. They don’t have the capacity to battle the kind of military force posed by the Cylons. Unless…….War of the Worlds movie (yeah I finally got around to seeing it last week )Spoiler:
Last edited by LoneStar1836; August 13th, 2005 at 05:28 PM.
IMO always implied.